DAYSTATE MAGAZINES

First off, I am not trying to reopen a closed thread. I hope my posting this does not cause any controversy, if so I apologize in advance. I have no ill intent towards Daystate, this is strictly for information purposes.

The "hook" appears to be a leftover from earlier versions. I disassembled a magazine to check the action. My layout below should help to understand what's going on.

Originally (in blue) the bolt was pulled back withdrawing the pellet probe. At this point the lever was actuated: the right end pivoted down (Point A) releasing the cog and the magazine rotates, simultaneously the left end pivoted up and catches the next cog to stop the rotation. Close the bolt and shoot.

Currently with the non-double load feature: the actuator pin pops up when the gun is fired while the pellet probes is still in place. The pin moves back down immediately and the POINT A lever moves back up immediately. The magazine rotates just slightly clearing the cog and when the probe is withdrawn the POINT A catches the next cog and stops the rotation. Therefore as I see it, the hook on the other end of the lever no longer serves any purpose and it could be eliminated thereby ending the pellet probe abrasion.

1547759689_7956467175c40f0492356a1.88683234_Mag.jpg


Now to put my money where my mouth is.

Using a Dremel tool I carefully ground off the "offending hook". Reassembled, loaded up 10 pellets and test fired. It worked flawlessly from pellet 1 through 10. Reloaded and shot 4 more full mags from my Renegade with no problems whatsoever. The accuracy is far better than before too. Not as good as single loading, but that's not a surprise.

The only drawback that I can see is trying to manually cycle the magazine with it out of the gun, it doesn't stop on each cylinder as the "stop hook" is no longer there. Therefore it would no longer function on an older non-double loading style rifle.

By the way. I was told yesterday while at AOA that a new Daystate magazine should be available in March. No other details other than it will be less expensive.
 
 Hawkeye69, I to dissected my Mag. About a Wk. ago and modified mine and shooting partners to eliminate the impact damage/ACCURACY problems associated with this contact ( believe accuracy related issues vary gun to gun dependent on force/ depth of impact, I also believe the vibrations/harmonics transferred through probe to barrel are the culprit here! IMO. ) have requested Daystate replace my probe under WARRANTY! We will see? I am in no way “badmouthing” Daystate either just please replace my probe THE LEAST THEY CAN DO! , now I know they are in business to make money and recoupe production and engineering costs but obviously they cut corners on trying to use existing stock! But when u cut corners on the front end it always cost more on the tail end! I stand by Daystate just give me a new probe... & Redesigned Mag. SIMPLE!... Also accuracy initially seems better but really need better outside conditions to properly test and quantify?
 
Is there differences in magazines among models? Curious i have a regal xl huntsman in .177 that does not always feed or rotate the next pellet, will this help with that or is it mainly for probe wear? Thanks!!!


The only rifles this would apply to would be the newer non-double load variety. On older models this mod would ruin the magazine.

Again I am not recommending anyone modify their magazines, I'm only reporting my findings.
 
I modified my Mag. As well... similarly to what hawkeye explained, and works well for me!, but I did this only to suit my need for a multi-shot rifle! “That’s main reason for my puchase of said rifle” I have 3 other single shot target rifles @ my disposal! I feel Daystate needs to address this issue with Mag. plus replace my damaged probe...
 
I too have a Redwolf and if indeed the magazine's were designed faulty..let the dust settle and see what Daystate comes up with. I'm thinking MAYBE we will be able to send them in for updated magazines...lets give them a chance to sort it all out before the mud slinging starts.


I can only go by what I was told by Darren at AOA. He said that the new magazine is only redesigned to be less expensive and has nothing to do with the issue of pellet probe damage. Thus it remains to be seen whether it will be a cure or not.
 
NOMOJO65...here you go..
airgunsofAZ

Dealer



Dealer


Thank you all for your information and feedback. We have been in communication with the Daystate factory regarding this matter. The mark from the magazine on the bolt probe does not impact performance in our extensive testing. It is a function of the high power guns striking the indexing assembly with added force. The impacted area on the probe is not part of the cycling action or sealing surfaces. It is only a cosmetic issue. Daystate has assured us that there is no functional concern with this issue, and we have confirmed in our testing. If the cosmetic mark is unacceptable to a current owner within their warranty period, Daystate has AUTHORIZED A REPLACEMENT through their US service center.

AOA Staff

 
How much of that hook did you guy grind off?

Thanks for any response..

With the lever actuated I removed all of the hook that extended into the pellet opening. BTW I am not suggesting that others do the same, I am just reporting the results of my testing.

Yup - did the same. I essentially took off the entire hook, by pushing the lever to its max with a thin allen key - The travel is a fair bit more than you can manage by pressing with your finger. Then ground it with a Dremel. There is a very definite improvement, but still haven't managed to make it to the range to see just how much at 50yds plus.



@hawkeye69 - very glad it worked for you too. 
 
NOMOJO65...here you go..
airgunsofAZ

Dealer



Dealer


Thank you all for your information and feedback. We have been in communication with the Daystate factory regarding this matter. The mark from the magazine on the bolt probe does not impact performance in our extensive testing. It is a function of the high power guns striking the indexing assembly with added force. The impacted area on the probe is not part of the cycling action or sealing surfaces. It is only a cosmetic issue. Daystate has assured us that there is no functional concern with this issue, and we have confirmed in our testing. If the cosmetic mark is unacceptable to a current owner within their warranty period, Daystate has AUTHORIZED A REPLACEMENT through their US service center.

AOA Staff


My question is how did they do "their testing"? The only way that I can think of to prove that the hook has no effect would be to grind it off and then compare the before and after results. My Renegade, on which AOA just replaced the damaged probe, is not a high power model.
 
Dano46 needs brought into this discussion because his probe damage and accuracy while using Mag. Is atrocious!, would be curious if he modded his Mag. In this fashion would his accuracy improve? He said w/ss tray it was much better! Now I have done inside testing with my modded Mag. (And a friends that I also modded) believe my accuracy has improved but at only 16.5 yds... and I will be calling AOA for a probe!, will see what happens? I’m assuming they will say gun has to be returned for this! but I would rather replace it myself... I really don’t understand how this got by DAYSTATE’s R&D department? Or pre/post production tests! Also wanted to add that AoA states this issue is cosmetic only?, doesn’t effect sealing surface or cycling of probe? But I feel it does effect accuracy vibs/harmonics transmitting through probe to barrel, (I know there’s a o-ring, that should dampen this? which brings up the question in my head of the harder VITON o-ring people are “upgrading” to...!) kind of makes me wonder about all this EXTENSIVE testing?
 
Hey Nomojo.. they already closed my topic on this and I will be deleted I think from this forum if I keep on going.. but I give my word on this.. if and when I find a solution to this I will let ya all know.. I wont stop testing and modifying until I do.. the high pressure o-rings wont break that fast but remember that the harder material wont seal as good around the pellet probe so a little wider fps spread can be expected.. I'm not gonna hammer on about this as I stand by my innitial diagnoses... if you have a pin hitting the mag at 1000 fps in the firing cycle its gonna cause some cow dung for accuracy.. so shooting at 100 and 200 meters I just single load.. Yes it makes me angry that they think Im stupid for posting a comment of it being just cosmetic.. they know its not.. and when they tell me to contact them and I did they just tell me no I must NOT contact them but that I must contact my reseller I"m sure they see my good manners as weakness witch is big mistake.

Sorry guys there is no quick fix for this so for now just learn to single load faster.
 
So I finally got out to test the modded magazine at 50yards. Previously I was getting at least 3 inch 10 shot groups out of the thing, with severe visible and audible (the pellet instability made them make a noise like a bee buzzing around your head) spiralling.

I initially only removed the part of the hook that protruded into the probe path. This gave improved, but not perfect results at short range (as I posted on dano46's previous thread) and I discovered that the lever can be pushed quite a bit further with a thin tool like an allen key than with a finger, so the hook was still making contact with the probe when actuated by the pin, although less severely than before. I then removed all of the hook so that it has absolutely no contact with the drum no matter how far it is pushed. 

Very happy with the results - All shot at 50yards at 920fps with 18 grain JSB with front bipod and back sandbag:

1548247498_6906755525c4861ca841c84.88820518_IMG_2044.jpg


The first is a 5 shot 'quick baseline group'at 50 with the SST. Turned out better than the average quick baseline to say the least.

There was however no wind at all during this group. The wind quickly got started again and was around 5mph with occasional gusts to around 8mph. Our range has a narrow 50m lane with pre cast concrete walls on all sides, causing a fair bit of swirling at even low wind speeds.

1548247988_9072665585c4863b49db9c9.67664778_IMG_2043.jpg
1548247990_6820575425c4863b6867ee7.14913417_IMG_2045.jpg


Then 2 10 shot groups with the mag, both well under half an inch. The shot outside the ring in the first picture is a spectacular flyer from the group far left while doing some pellet testing in my Vulcan and Crown.

1548248296_8516620635c4864e8811fc6.89076722_IMG_2046.jpg
1548248299_15258972245c4864eb789741.14053183_IMG_2047.jpg


Shot another 100 or so pellets from the Red Wolf with the mag at spinners etc. and suddenly and started noticing mild flyers again. I shot another group which had opened up a bit, which induced a mild panic initially. Fortunately it seems the barrel was dirty as the SST group shot immediately afterward is slightly worse with no significant change in pattern

Luckily for all of us this problem is just cosmetic hey? ;P