DayState barrel...

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It's the one for which you pay more!

Sorry, I'm a bit of a cynic, but most things like this are about 90% marketing hype. These are represented as barrels selected by their accuracy team. That might simply mean they actually shoot them for an accuracy test. I've had two remarkably bad barrels that were replaced, so maybe the process will eliminate the barrels that should have never been used anyway. In this price range it seems to me, that's kind of like.....doing your job. 
 
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I think there are several threads where this was discussed , but there are 2 ART forms.... Accuracy Research Team APPROVED and ART barrels. The project started as a 25 cal LW barrel improvement intent. We tested 15 different internal profiles with different levels of choke and different twists, then tested the best in 10 more different refinements. The profiles of the best 2 were combined in a more or less separate test project. The previous top 2 had a trial run of 100 each that were used until gone. I do not know what the most current production is using. Needless to say ... it was pretty expensive with the tooling changes needed at LW. One profile was later used on the 30 cal.

The ART Approved barrels incorporate production changes that were needed to extract more of the accuracy potential of the barrel but no MAJOR changes as they're extremely good for now.

So your question is..... how do you tell the difference..... 

LW has long been making airgun barrels with 1 in 17 twist.... both poly and standard rifling. The ART barrels are 1 in 28 with very gentle rifling profiles. They will only be on the 25 and 30 cals right now. ALL the others are 1 in 17, including the ART Approved. They all should come with angled leades now and should chamber pellets pretty smoothly and should be pretty darned good shooters. The last 4 production 22s I have installed and tested were phenomenal with very little attention.

So for the cynics , I'm just ONE of the team, but have switched barrels AT LEAST a hundred times on my RW and couldn't estimate how much time programming to test different pellets at different velocities, as well as all the actual shooting, both indoor at 100 and outdoor. I'm not sure how the British guys conducted their testing but I know there are several involved there, as well.

I'm not saying all is always perfect but the intent has been to get better.... MUCH better. As in the case of elh0102, at least they stood behind it and replaced them.

Hope this helps,

Bob
 
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Thanks Bob,

I appreciate your answer but now am confused even more....

I have a couple .22 Red Wolf HP airguns and posed the question to a dealer and inquired about getting a true ART barrel for them. I was told they most likely already have one BUT I can buy on for 398.00 if I wish but from your post you mentioned only .25 and .30 are available.

Mine are both great shooters as is but am curious if by replacing the barrel I can squeeze even more out of one. I would leave one as is for a "control" group and see if the swap does truly make a difference....

So now I am not sure what to make of it....
 
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Thanks Scratch!

I was JUST looking at the AoA page!! It appears Safari models come standard with the A.R.T barrels and the HP Red Wolf models have the polygon barrel....At least based on your info that is what I gather....

I just sent the email to confirm the purchase of the .22 A.R.T barrel so we shall see....I will install it on one HP and see if it truly is superior compared to a factory (heliboard installed on both) .22 RW HP...

Appreciate it Scratch!!


 
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I guess you missed the part where ART Approved is 22 and 177. If you look at the leade with a magnifier, you'll see an angle on the rifling to give the pellets softer entry into the rifling. Earlier versions were the same in profile but had sharp rifling entry there. That's just one of the changes incorporated and one that we look at carefully with every barrel we use. If it has that angle, you are just playing the lottery with another being better. I also didn't state previously, but all this applies only to the HP's and polygonal barrels. I will also say that maybe they haven't achieved perfection, but LW is EXTRAORDINARILY consistent and most can be brought to very high levels of accuracy with inspection and touchups on the production fitting areas.

So, to reiterate the differences, ART are 25 and 30 in poly slow twist and 177 and 22 are ART Approved if they are poly and use the new production techniques. 

In my own case, it seems I'm at the limit of the ammo quality. Almost every different batch gives slightly different levels of "fliers" and for some, can be a fraction of an inch at 100, where others can be inches. Unfortunately, the MRDs are getting harder to buy with more people using them. Looking at your very first target posted from indoor at 100 Mike, seems like yours is going to be difficult to improve on. On buying another ART barrel, AoA DOES test them, but they don't have the facilities to really guarantee anything at long range. They have brought them to me to test on occasion, as my range allows up to 200 yards plus there is a 100 yard indoor about 5 miles from me. Mostly though, if it does 1 hole at 50 for them, they call it good and typically they ARE.

Hopefully it's all fun for you. It is for me, and learning something every day. 

Bob
 
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Hey Bob,

I understood your post just fine.....I am more curious if the barrel from the Safari .22 installed on a RedWolf HP .22 makes a difference for better or worse...

I just like experimenting with things and for a few hundred bucks more than worth it to pop one on and see how it performs against a stock .22 HP....

Oh it absolutely is a blast!! Anyone who doesn't have fun seeing a tiny pellet flying out to 100 yards going smack in a tiny little group is just missing out!!

Have a call with my DayState dealer here shortly so will update based on that....Apparently there may also be another barrel optiin...

Appreciate the post Bob and folks!

Dr. Mike 
 
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I guess you missed the part where ART Approved is 22 and 177. If you look at the leade with a magnifier, you'll see an angle on the rifling to give the pellets softer entry into the rifling. Earlier versions were the same in profile but had sharp rifling entry there. That's just one of the changes incorporated and one that we look at carefully with every barrel we use. If it has that angle, you are just playing the lottery with another being better. I also didn't state previously, but all this applies only to the HP's and polygonal barrels. I will also say that maybe they haven't achieved perfection, but LW is EXTRAORDINARILY consistent and most can be brought to very high levels of accuracy with inspection and touchups on the production fitting areas.

So, to reiterate the differences, ART are 25 and 30 in poly slow twist and 177 and 22 are ART Approved if they are poly and use the new production techniques. 

In my own case, it seems I'm at the limit of the ammo quality. Almost every different batch gives slightly different levels of "fliers" and for some, can be a fraction of an inch at 100, where others can be inches. Unfortunately, the MRDs are getting harder to buy with more people using them. Looking at your very first target posted from indoor at 100 Mike, seems like yours is going to be difficult to improve on. On buying another ART barrel, AoA DOES test them, but they don't have the facilities to really guarantee anything at long range. They have brought them to me to test on occasion, as my range allows up to 200 yards plus there is a 100 yard indoor about 5 miles from me. Mostly though, if it does 1 hole at 50 for them, they call it good and typically they ARE.

Hopefully it's all fun for you. It is for me, and learning something every day. 

Bob
Click to expand...

Yesterday I ordered a Pulsar HP in .25 from AOA. They are expecting the shipment direct from Daystate in a few weeks so this is a current production rifle. Can I assume I am getting an ART barrel in poly slow twist? I would like to shoot distance some and I am looking for some slugs that will work well in this rifle. I am having issues finding information on the Pulsar HP and what type of slugs to use or if I just need to stick with pellets. Thanks for any insight you can provide me on this.
 
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I would like to say yes, but honestly don't know. It would make sense because all other HP models use the ART barrel in 25 and 30. You could check with AoA . They should know. I've been involved from the beginning in the ART project but do not follow their production details closely.

Sorry not to be more help. It's relatively easy to determine with rifle in hand as related above.

Bob
 
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I think there are several threads where this was discussed , but there are 2 ART forms.... Accuracy Research Team APPROVED and ART barrels. The project started as a 25 cal LW barrel improvement intent. We tested 15 different internal profiles with different levels of choke and different twists, then tested the best in 10 more different refinements. The profiles of the best 2 were combined in a more or less separate test project. The previous top 2 had a trial run of 100 each that were used until gone. I do not know what the most current production is using. Needless to say ... it was pretty expensive with the tooling changes needed at LW. One profile was later used on the 30 cal.

The ART Approved barrels incorporate production changes that were needed to extract more of the accuracy potential of the barrel but no MAJOR changes as they're extremely good for now.

So your question is..... how do you tell the difference..... 

LW has long been making airgun barrels with 1 in 17 twist.... both poly and standard rifling. The ART barrels are 1 in 28 with very gentle rifling profiles. They will only be on the 25 and 30 cals right now. ALL the others are 1 in 17, including the ART Approved. They all should come with angled leades now and should chamber pellets pretty smoothly and should be pretty darned good shooters. The last 4 production 22s I have installed and tested were phenomenal with very little attention.

So for the cynics , I'm just ONE of the team, but have switched barrels AT LEAST a hundred times on my RW and couldn't estimate how much time programming to test different pellets at different velocities, as well as all the actual shooting, both indoor at 100 and outdoor. I'm not sure how the British guys conducted their testing but I know there are several involved there, as well.

I'm not saying all is always perfect but the intent has been to get better.... MUCH better. As in the case of elh0102, at least they stood behind it and replaced them.

Hope this helps,

Bob
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying Bob, as I have been struggling to understand the differences between ART barrels, ART approved barrels vs. other LW Poly barrels for some time. In retrospect, it would have been helpful if Daystate had taken the time initially to explain this in much more detail when they announced and described the ART barrels. I read all of their published literature and until I read your two posts in this thread, I could not fully understand the context.

In my view anytime there is a collaboration effort between the LW barrel manufacturer, the air gun brand (DS in this case), a well known air gun dealer, and some AGN knowledgeable shooters testing and working collectively to improve a barrel or gun’s accuracy —- we all win!
 
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I would like to say yes, but honestly don't know. It would make sense because all other HP models use the ART barrel in 25 and 30. You could check with AoA . They should know. I've been involved from the beginning in the ART project but do not follow their production details closely.

Sorry not to be more help. It's relatively easy to determine with rifle in hand as related above.

Bob
Click to expand...

Thank you for replying. I feel the best thing to do is verify what barrel I have when I receive my Pulsar and then order the slugs. Your explanation above should make it easy for me to determine that.
 
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