COULD THIS BE THE BEST AIRGUN SLUG DESIGN OF ALL?

Forums Pellets, Projectiles, Slugs, & Ammo COULD THIS BE THE BEST AIRGUN SLUG DESIGN OF ALL?

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    CHUCK
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    The original French Minie Ball slug!

    Here is an illustration of one where you can see that only the drive bands would touch the rifling, and just like the Minie the blast of air would expand the hollow cavity at the rear to create a seal in the barrel. The molds for the Minie ball slug are available for purchase from RCBS right now, in flat nose, round nose, or hollow point. Here is an illustration and some pics…

    This projectile changed the whole world of warfare especially during our Civil War! Rifled muskets shooting these projectiles could routinely hit targets at 300 yards by even the most inexperienced marksmen. Can you imagine a .30 cal. Minie slug printing 3 inch groups at 300 yards? To perform their best they required a very slow twist rate out of very long barrels. Now if we can just find an airgun barrel with the correct twist rate to stabilize these at a velocity of say…960 ft/s with a slug weight of say 60 grains? That would be a handy hunting power of 123 fpe in .30 cal. 

    And while I am at it I am wondering why none of the big bore airgunners….357, .45, & .50 caliber have not tried this slug design yet? Subsonic these would be quite lethal hunting slugs. By the way it is a nose heavy projectile similar to the skirted pellets we shoot now so they naturally want to fly straight and true, and it has a far superior drag coefficient than that of a skirted pellet.

    So who is going to buy a mold and make some of these out of pure soft lead?

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    Kinetic45
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    Already tested them in my 457 Texan using Lee Precision R.E.A.L. molds two years ago.

    Had to open up the base band (sent mold off to a professional moldmaker/ modifier) to get them to preform at a basic level…

    but never got them to shoot as well as some other designs. Part of that is they are just too heavy for most .45 air rifles (a slug designed for a smaller calibur could be designed for a more appropriate weight of course).  The other is that pellets do well as hollow base but slugs not so much.

    Yes, they revolutionized warfare at the time but that time 'may' have passed. Note that in a black powder rifle the base obturates to fit the rifling BUT I found it did NOT in the air rifle.

    You should buy a mold and try your luck and report.

    I believe Accurate Molds could make one to your design for $90 or so if they do not already have one in their catalogue.  Check.

    Mountain Molds also makes custom molds for around $90 too.

    My testing has proven to my satisfaction that reduced bore friction from wide spaced narrow bands easies rifling engagement / chambering and gives higher velocities.  Used that in designing my .357 hunting bullet NOE is producing molds for http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35_590&products_id=5620

    Or another great bullet NOE is producing molds for in various caliburs from 22 to .35 which basically have two contact bands is http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35_578&products_id=5489

     

    • This reply was modified 1 year ago by Kinetic45.
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    CHUCK
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    Kinetic45, Thank you so much for your input and sharing your experience with this slug design. I am disappointed by the results but it makes sense if the base does not obturate to seal the bore, it probably just rattles down the barrel riding the lands and could never be accurate.

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    Kinetic45
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    If you look at pages 15, 16, 17, etc (and other pages for other caliburs) of the catalog you can see that many good designs exist and picking the right weight your rifle can handle and using the guidelines of 'most groove width and narrow bands = low bore friction' AND having the most length of contact (usually a bullet is guided better if it has at least as long as bore contact as it's calibur). I stay away from wide bands because they tend to foul / lead more, like smooth sided bullets have in my experience unless well lubricated… Which is a whole Pandora's box of debate right there, haha

    http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=15

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    CHUCK
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    Wow Kinetic45, I got lost in the Accurate molds catalog for awhile there! 😄 Here is one I found in .30 caliber and weighs 55 grains, that says it is for "Airguns" and you know it looks really good to me. http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=30-050A-D.png 

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    Kinetic45
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    Note that it's a .300 diameter in that drawing so would be undersize for a .308 barrel.

    The solution is to request a custom size in the Notes when you order, which Accurate can do. I usually slug a barrel to confirm it's bore size so I get something that can be sized down a bit (too much sizing hurts accuracy sometimes too). I have a .308 air rifle that actually slugs .3094 [and of course no pellets or any commercial bullets I bought shot well in it because the barrel is oversize from the manufacturer, it required a cast bullet to fix the rifle] so the first mold I had to get was a Lyman .311. Later I had Accurate make one that was 'just right', .001 over bore. I recommend the NOE sizing system as the sizing bushings come in many sizes and are cheap. I bought one in .309 and polished it open a bit and it fits and shoots great.

    http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=104

    I use a cheap Lee press MOUNTED UPSIDE DOWN which let's me drop slugs in easily and they drop into a cup I hang under it

    https://leeprecision.com/reloader-press.html

    Shop around, the sell for about $35 lots of places

     

    All this turned an 6" grouping rifle at 50 yards into a one hole groups shooter ( a 1/2" ragged hole actually)

     

    • This reply was modified 1 year ago by Kinetic45.
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    Almeidaken
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    Kinetic 45, what make is your gun?

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    Kinetic45
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    The one that has the oversize barrel is a Hatsan Carnivore.

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