Clicking vs Holdover

Once you start dialing, you won't ever want to go back!! 

It's as quick as range it and dial it then take the shot. Just have to remember to dial back to your zero before the next shot at a different range, especially if you've gone a full rotation.

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Bob I’m a hold over guy because I forget to dial back down... Same reason I don’t switch power on my Compatto, I’ve taken longer shots that I’ve missed because I forgot to go from low to high power. That said your long range shooting speaks for itself.

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I use scopes with zero stops. I can dial up as far as I like and not pay attention to how many revolutions I turned. Once I want to go back to original zero I dial it down until I hit the zero stop and im done. Missing shots because of power change is another reason clicking in drop makes things easy. If you have a dope card and click in the needed drop it doesnt matter what power your scope is set at you just need to dial in the correct drop. Thats the reason I dont care for ffp scopes. I use dope cards and dial so ffp scopes dont give me any pros only cons to my sfp scopes.

Theres different ways to do it and you kinda need to find out which way you prefer and have a scope that allows you to do it the way you feel most comfortable.

Always holdover.

My prob if I’m dialing is once I’m ranged and shoot, I need to figure how to go from that distance to the next WITHOUT dialing down first. Then I would be faster to the shot.

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Yes, of course you don't have to dial down again. No matter if your using MOA or MIL clicks, and no matter whether you're getting those from a ballistic app for that shot or from a DOPE chart done beforehand:

It should tell you for each distance how many MOAs or MILs (not clicks!) of holdover you need, and you just click those.

Shot 1 = 3.5 mil

Shot 2 = 5.5 mil (just dial 2 more mil up)

Shot 3 = 4 mil (just dial 1.5 mil down)

Shot 4 = 12.2 mil (dial 8.2 mil up)

etc.



Yes, this can be a problem when our turret has no turret revolution indicator or turret turn counter.

Because when we dial 12.2 mil we surely have to make at least one full turn, on some scopes two full turns, and then some.

And after this shot we have to remember that we are one or even two turns up on the elevation, so we move the turret in the correct direction after this 12.2 mil shot.



That is why I prefer to by scopes with turret turn counters:
Here are some middle-priced scopes that have this feature:

Athlon Argos BTR 6-24x50 FFP ($300)
ACME Machine 6-24x50 FFP ($300)
Falcon S18i 3-18x50 FFP ($360)
Falcon S30 5-30x56 FFP ($370)
Falcon Menace 5.5-25x56 FFP ($420)
Athlon Helos BTR 6-24x50 FFP ($540)
Riton Mod 7 4-20x50 SFP ($590)
Sightron S-TAC 2.5-17.5x56 ($750)
SWFA 30mm 3-15x42 FFP ($750)



For more info, cf. the two scope specs comparison tables, here:
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/scope-model-comparison-with-specifications-3-16x-300-500/
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/scope-model-comparison-with-specifications-6-24x-300-500/




For scopes without a turret revolution counter: work-around
For scopes without a revolution counter there is a work-around to not forget on which turn of the turret you are, not convenient (and you have to remember to set it in the first place!). If your turret has a zero locking ring that has a knob with very wide spaced "teeth" (indentations) – like many UTG scopes have it – you could use make markings on the knurl indentations (dots with a whiteout pen) and use them as turn indicators:
First indentation: no dot = 0 turns up = bottom
Second indentation: 1 dot = 1 turn up
Second indentation: 2 dots = 2 turns up
Second indentation: 3 dots = 3 turns up

When clicking the turret a full turn, also turn the zero locking ring from "no dot" to "1 dot". When clicking back down, also return the zero locking ring to "no dot."





Happy clicking! (I'm a clicker, too, but I just got a FFP scope and with that I finally feel it's worth printing up a dope chart and memorizing some holdovers, with a SFP scope this just seems futile...).
Matthias

Great advice but when I get the next range from the finder and enter it into the Strelok and it gives me the next value, I forget the last one. But to count the revolutions and then multiply it by the clicks per revolution... the ground squirrel had died from old age before I’m done. I think I’ll do rows of numbered clicks above my 27 yard zero. Maybe a pen that writes on metal. That way if the first shot is 42 clicks then the next is 25, I can just dial it to the number.

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Also dont use strelok to find out your data in the field. Make a dope card that has your drop to what ever max distance you shoot. You will be much faster getting on target using a dope card instead of fumbling with your phone and looking up or entering data for that shot. Using strelok while shooting paper is fine unless you are shooting a timed match but other wise use dope cards.

You do it enough times and it becomes second nature....you just know it.

When I first started shooting pigeons on silos, I always entered the incline angle into Strelok for the calculation.

Today I had a Starling in a tree at 60yds and about 40 feet up. I'm zeroed at 50 yds and rather than dial anything, I kept the turret at 50 and held as if he was 50yds away. Drilled him right on the crosshairs. Best thing to do is to get out there and shoot. You will miss quite a bit early on, but keep at it and learn from the missed shots.

If your scope doesn't have a zero stop you can add these spacers so that you can at least find a minimum stop. I normally set mine up to bottom out at 35-40yds with my zero being at 60yds, just a few clicks away. You of course can also make a turret tape to simplify dialing in. Be sure to test it to make sure the settings are good. All you have to do then is range the target and dial in the yardage and your good to go. No phone to check and no click card to keep up with.

Jking

Ooops, I forgot to add a couple of photos yesterday and for some reason the first one won't load. The first one is a Sightron 4-20X50 S-tac with an aluminum spacer. I need to make a tape for it yet. From bottomed out (40yds) to my zero at 60 is only 13 clicks.

The second is the Sightron SIII. I used Delrin for the spacer with a cut out for the center line.

View attachment 1555852056_17148567795cbc6b18466174.19180800_IMG_3161.jpg

This all boils down to which method you're most comfortable with, but messing with the turrets for every shot seems like a big waste of time. While reading this thread, I kept asking myself, why do scopes have MOA and Mil dot reticles, if indeed you're going to mess with the turrets?

We are after all, using airguns. We don't have to worry about Coriolis effect, we seldom shoot at a down angle, and when the wind is blowing 10 to 15 mph, we're usually in front of the boob tube. So learning the necessary hold over or hold off isn't rocket science. What's more, if your shooting grackles and starlings, you don't have time to fiddle with scope adjustments! 

Just my two-cents

This all boils down to which method you're most comfortable with, but messing with the turrets for every shot seems like a big waste of time. While reading this thread, I kept asking myself, why do scopes have MOA and Mil dot reticles, if indeed you're going to mess with the turrets?

We are after all, using airguns. We don't have to worry about Coriolis effect, we seldom shoot at a down angle, and when the wind is blowing 10 to 15 mph, we're usually in front of the boob tube. So learning the necessary hold over or hold off isn't rocket science. What's more, if your shooting grackles and starlings, you don't have time to fiddle with scope adjustments! 

Just my two-cents

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The reticles were designed before rangefinders were a thing so they were designed for the long range shooter to be able to range his/her target with the reticle not for holding over. Clicking in your hold over is more accurate especially if you also have to hold off for wind. Even tho we dont shoot downhill you have the same effect shooting uphill and airgun shooters do that allot. I shoot a couple dozen different rifles and shoot from 10 yds out to over 1,000 yds so no I am not going to memorize all the hold overs of my different rifles. I use dope cards and click in my holdover unless it needs to be a very fast shot but again my dope card tells me how many mil or moa I need so its my choice to click it in or just hold over the proper amount of mil or moa on the reticle.

But what about angles? Strelok calculates that for you. Just asking.

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Yes strelok will figure in the angle and even lets you use your phones camera to determine the angle. The best way to adjust for angle would be to buy a laser rangefinder that automatically compensates for any angle when you range your target.

Whoa now! The hilly pasture that I hunt can be up as much as 8* and down 8*. Each of which changes my click values for the shots. I prefer to have Strelok calculate the angles because it also factors in current weather conditions where the rangefinder does not. The rangefinders I’ve seen with angles also gives the straight line equivalent for range. I haven’t found one that will just give angle without the adjusted range.

If you use that value then you would have to use 0 angle in Strelok, and I don’t know how a straight line shot is effected compared to angled shots by weather.

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Using a rangefinder with angle compensation doesnt effect strelok. You dont add any angle compensation in strelok the laser rangefinder already does that. Strelok will still use the weather conditions the same as it would if you manually add the angle in strelok. You probably wont find a rangefinder that gives just the angle without the adjusted range. No one cares about what the angle actually is or needs that info if the range finder is compensating for it. You buy a rangefinder that compensates so you dont have to try and determine what the angle is. You are adding unneeded steps and time to getting your shot off if you have to use your phone or something else to find the angle then input that angle into strelok then range the target to see where the shot will hit. With a compensating rangefinder you simply range the target and the rangefinder will give you the correct range for that angle. The angle is not effected by weather its effected by gravity. The steeper the angle the less gravity pulls the projectile out of the straight line path. 

Yes thats how it works. I have used a laser rangefinder with compensation for awhile with airguns and firearms. So do allot if not all competitors in long range shooting. It does work and once you start using it you will see the benefit immediately. 

For me its all about the windcall. If you holdover, and are shooting in wind, your target ends up floating in the lower right or left with no direct reference.



If you dial the elevation, those handy precise windage hash marks are right on target for you to use. There is no question you can be more precise holding wind on the reticle hashes themselves. This doesnt apply for woods hunting but for pigeons on silos, chucks in holes, or crows perched on high past 100 yards i absolutely need to dial elevation and hold wind.

its different for everyone but with the size of our targets, dialing el and holding wind just makes sense to me.



Of course to do this you need a reliable optic. I own two nightforces, so you know where i put my dollars for long range. I have also owned swfa and can vouch for their turrets as well. The glass doesnt hold a candle to the nightforce though.