Can the pressure of the air cylinder be increased with the use of a regulator ?

Forums PCP Airguns Can the pressure of the air cylinder be increased with the use of a regulator ?

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    Treepharmer
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    Can I increase the pressure to get a higher shot count ?

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    JimNM
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    If I understand you, you are asking if you can pump 4800 psi into a 3000 psi bottle on your gun – just because the gun has a "regulator"??  If that is the question, the answer is NO!

    If that is not the question, I don't know what you are asking.

     

    The regulator is to allow a measured "puff" of air from the storage tank to the barrel when the valve is opened.  That regulator will not allow you to safely exceed the specs on your on board storage container.

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    Brian10956
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    First of all the pressure vessel in your rifle is only certified to hold air at a certain PSI if you put in more you will weaken it where it can blow up. What a regulator does in a rifle is to use a more consistent volume of air under pressure to push out the pellet. Guns without a regulator just use the  opening and closing of a valve to get the air behind the pellet. Some rifle actually will give you more accuracy when filled with less air that is why you need to use a chronograph to see what the pellet speed is as the air goes from let’s say 3000 psi to 1800. The first few shots can be erratic where if you fill to 2700 psi you may get better results.

    so don’t put more air pressure into your gun to get more shots. If you add a regulator to your gun the gun should be more efficient with the amount of air used for each shot giving you more shots per fill.

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    John_in_Ma
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    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by John_in_Ma.
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    Treepharmer
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    I thought I read someone put more pressure in their gun because they are tested well above recommended fill, and having a regulator it would not damage trigger components because of regulated pressure.

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    JimNM
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    Damage to the user and the innocent people and property around them is the main danger – not damage to the gun.

     

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by JimNM.
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    heavy-impact
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    Your question isn't clear so I'll give you an example that may help.

    I purchased a .22 Umarex Gauntlet for one of my sons. He doesn't own a pump so he can only fill at my house or from my SCBA tank so I modified his gun.

    I replaced the 200 bar steel tank and 1200 psi regulator that came on the gun with a .3L 300 bar carbon fiber tank and a 1600 psi regulator to give him more power and a higher shot count.

    Original configuration

    Modified

     

     

     

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    heavy-impact
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    Exceeding the maximum rated pressure for any tank can kill you.

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    Bob_O
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    Treepharmer

    I thought I read someone put more pressure in their gun because they are tested well above recommended fill, and having a regulator it would not damage trigger components because of regulated pressure.

    Those posts are gone because they were bad advice.

    Please don't fill past factory recommended pressure regardless of what the test pressure is/was.

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    Treepharmer
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    Thanks for the reply, I was not thinking of 3000 psi up to 4800 psi. that would be very dangerous for anyone involved. 3400 psi ?

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    Treepharmer
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    Thanks Bob I fully understand

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    Brian10956
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    In the Navy were I was on a Sub Tender  I spent some of my spare time with the underwater demolition team (UDT). I did this in order to learn how to scuba dive . I remember when I would be with them one time  they would take air tanks and fill them with water and they hooked them up to a machine that would increase the pressure to see if the tank would blow. they tested  with water because water can’t be compressed like a gas The  tank was put in a steal cage to keep the shrapnel contained. If the tank passed it was put back in service . New tanks were allowed to be filled up to 110% but the tanks that went through “hydro” were only filled to 3000 psi vs 3300psi on new tank.

    remember DON’T OVERFILL YOU AIR GUN ONLY FILL TO THE AMOUNT RECOMMENDED BY THE MANUFACTURER 

     

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    ackuric
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    Unless you're an engineer running your own calculations, only fill to the manufacturers recommended fill pressure…

     

    No one can give a broad answer that covers all brands/models of air guns, what may work for one may not for another…so its better to be more specific and state which brand/model you intend to attempt this one before even obtaining a genuine answer.

    There are modifications one can do to increase their fill pressure, but its in your best interest to be educated on the matter, theres more than 1 calculation to conduct, as the regulator only reduces the pressure in a portion of the rifle, but you still expose the fill cap and components as well as the tube itself to higher pressures…

     

    -Matt

     

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    likkitysplyt
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    Don't think air inside a tank when you exceed factory recommendations. Try and think hand grenade, explosion, head blown off, room totally destroyed and possibly someone in another room also. If that doesn't work, try getting in touch with Todd at AoA and ask him to send you some pictures of what was left of his hand after a mistake ( he thought a fitting was secured and it wasn't ) with only about 1000 psi. Not trying to be too graphic, but the truth is the truth … if you don't use your brain when dealing with high pressure air you may not live long enough to say, "DAMN!"

    John

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    Brian10956
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    All air tanks are affected by metal fatigue. That is the more often you fill them the more the go through expanding and contracting. Eventually the metal will go. It’s like taking I thin piece of sheet metal bend it back and forth eventually it will break. It’s the same with a air cylinder. When you overfill it will weaken the molecular bond and if repeated what wouldn’t blow for 6 months of overfilling will blow in month 7.

     

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    CHUCK
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    Treepharmer, you should never fill your air rifles above the factory recommended pressure due to safety concerns. I am the person you are asking about in relation to filling above the factory recommended pressure. At one point in time I tried that as an experiment on one of my rifles and then foolishly shared that experiment here on the forum. I suppose my ego prompted me to share that "discovery" but in hind sight I should have known better.

    After being contacted by the owner of this forum and my friends at FX and Huma regarding this dangerous practice, I resolutely attempted to go back through three years of posts to delete each time I had mentioned it. It was such a tedious task that I finally just completely deleted my account here hoping that it would automatically remove all the posts I created and also replies on other peoples topics. As you can see the subject still returns to haunt me but better that than have to one day live with the fact of someone getting hurt imitating my foolishness.

    You do raise a valid question in regards to someone converting an unregulated air rifle to a regulated air rifle though. The recommended fill pressure for many unregulated rifles is about 3000 psi (206 Bar) If you filled it to higher pressure it would just hold the valve pin closed so tight that when the hammer hit the pin it either wouldn't open at all, or would only let out a tiny little bit of air at very low velocity. So overfilling would be unsafe and would also be counter productive.

    If you succeeded in adding a regulator to an unregulated rifle, you would get a much flatter shot string but you still would not be able to exceed the factory recommended fill pressure safely, because the rifle was only designed to be filled to 200 Bar and no higher. You would see a higher shot count than before though, because the regulator would manage the air in the 200 Bar fill much more efficiently than before, but you could not safely fill it any higher than the factory spec. 

    So you should see a higher shot count by adding a regulator to an unregulated rifle, but only because the regulator manages the available air more efficiently. But please do not overfill any of your air rifles based on a foolish experiment I shared on here long ago.  Exactly what rifle are you asking these questions about by the way?

    Best regards, Chuck

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    Airmanator
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    In a way you could fill past the recommended fill pressure if you have a reg. But it's at your own risk. I have a marauder rifle. It's fill pressure is 3000 psi max. I installed a huma reg to 2000. So the valve will only see 2000 psi max. I now fill my marauder to 4000 psi max and shoot down to 2000 psi. That's the safest pressure I'm conformable with. These tank and air tube are usually rated to 3000 psi but their breaking point is will past 10,000 psi. I've seen someone test these 3000 air tube to over 10,000 psi and it did not explode. Company tested these tanks will over 3 times the recommended fill pressure for safety test. 

     

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    Treepharmer
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    Thanks Chuck, I am not planning on filling over 200 bar now after reading more about tune and regulator combination. By the way I am planning on using a Huma reg in a Hatsan AT 44 .25 cal. Thanks to all responses 

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    broekzwans
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    There is only one airgun I know which allows a higher fill pressure after fitting a regulator and that is the FX Royale. At a certain point there were regulated and unregulated versions with basically the same parts apart from the regulator. The regulated version allowed 220 or 230 bar and the unregulated 200 bar (due to the above mentioned possible valve lock). After fitting a regulator the bottle pressure could be increased to the 220/230 bar (whichever it was). But this is as far as I know the ONLY one, I wouldn't take the risks on other guns, especially not if you take it to the range and sit next to other people.

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    Arzrover
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    Also keep in mind that SOME tubes used for reservoirs may be rated at 10k + burst pressure , but when cut to outfit them with valves, end plugs, gauge blocks, etc, have stress raisers introduced that reduce that rating SIGNIFICANTLY, especially when you consider metal fatigue over time.

    Wouldn't do it myself. A friend had his thumb completely severed by a ruptured hose and now has very limited use as it was reattached. In seeing the power of air… I try to be very vigilant and careful with my equipment .

    Bob

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