can hammer bounce affect acuracy ?

actually im tuning a gun to be super backyard friendly for really short distances up to 15 yards for target shooting only.

below 650 fps i can hear and feel hammer bounce and the grouping goes down the river 1,5 - 2 inch at 30 yards

above 650 the muzzle noise is very fast and the grouping is below half inch all day long at 30 yards

i used different pellets and its with all exactly the same!

reg pressure is at 1300 psi and its adjustable

my plan is to set the reg to 1000psi and try again.

what are you guys thinking ?











can hammer bounce affect acuracy ?
 
There are 1000s of different ways to tune a gun and potentially any of those can affect accuracy. In the uk we have strict power levels so velocity is reduced, A typical .22 cal airgun here will be spitting 16grn pellets at 570fps and a 8.4grn pellet at 800fps and accuracy rarely suffers, in fact accuracy can be extremely good

here is 26 shots at 25 yards with my .22

1565033784_12380590345d488538b043c7.74353553_9C761680-6936-4A50-85F3-561C2E0FA7FB.jpeg






and this 17 shots with my .177 at 45yards

1565033961_10966920435d4885e9b6db45.59437931_FB2DC68E-ADE7-482E-B4CA-29EB3FBEC684.png




Depending on your gun, I would start with 900psi for .22 and 1250psi for .177, you will also need to test several different types of pellets as some work better at slower speeds others faster. 

Jsb 16grn .22 and jsb 8.4grn in .177 are a good starting point, also h&n, forget heavier pellets or bullet shapes, these generally perform badly .

Good luck

Bb


 
thanks for your input. 

its a agt vulcan .177 and i lowered the reg pressure like shown in this video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TO6XkmRQOA

i turned it a bit less then a quarter turn so i guess im around 70-80 bar / 1000 - 1150 PSI - i will record a shot string soon. no reg tester available.

the factory spring had a lot of pre load:

wire: 0,055

lenght: 1,5



new temporaliy spring:

wire: 0,059

lenght: 1,18



so the new spring should have a higher spring rate ?

1565113040_11167790335d49bad08386d4.12972214_IMG_20190806_165211127.jpg


1565113063_19282106115d49bae78bfe21.51281836_IMG_20190806_164825371.jpg




im shooting now with the same fps as with the factory spring but the hammer bounce is gone and my group sizes are starting to get much better. 

the pre load adjuster is now flush with the housing but less then half a turn clockwise and im gaining around 125fps. i dont like that extrem high sensivity! is that a sign that i should set the reg pressure down again ?
 
ideally, with the hammer screwed in a little slowly adjust the reg until the speed is 30-50fps faster than you would like, then back the hammer off until the speed drops to where you want. This way you are wasting the minimal amount of air. With a short strong hammer spring, load adjuster will be very sensitive, a slightly longer weaker spring is less sensitive.



bb





.
 
ideally, with the hammer screwed in a little slowly adjust the reg until the speed is 30-50fps faster than you would like, then back the hammer off until the speed drops to where you want. This way you are wasting the minimal amount of air. With a short strong hammer spring, load adjuster will be very sensitive, a slightly longer weaker spring is less sensitive.



bb





.

I'm in absolute agreement! This is how I have been tuning my EdGuns and FX rifles. Most will recommend 10-20fps higher, but I find that a nice, quick, strong tap on the valve holding higher pressure creates a nice and quick burst that is less violent (and ultimately more accurate). 
 
The hammer weight is too heavy for the speed your after. And too little spring can cause bigger es because of inconsistent valve strike. If it were mine, I'd go the opposite way. Turn the reg pressures up and back the factory spring out. velocity will go down. Its almost like valve lock so to speak. You'll get a more consistent hammer strike, and no hammer bounc and tighter extreme spreads.

If you keep going down on reg pressures, you'll reintroduce hammer bounce. By bumping the reg, you can speed up the shot cycled and reduce dwell
 
The hammer weight is too heavy for the speed your after. And too little spring can cause bigger es because of inconsistent valve strike. If it were mine, I'd go the opposite way. Turn the reg pressures up and back the factory spring out. velocity will go down. Its almost like valve lock so to speak. You'll get a more consistent hammer strike, and no hammer bounc and tighter extreme spreads.

If you keep going down on reg pressures, you'll reintroduce hammer bounce. By bumping the reg, you can speed up the shot cycled and reduce dwell

You are absolutely correct, however once the gun comes off reg then there will almost certainly be a power hike as it becomes increasingly easy for the hammer to open the valve against the reducing pressure. While this it not a problem in countries that have no power limits other that altering the poi, in other countries that do have restrictions this can and does cause legal problems.

There are some guns, the fx impact for example, where it is possible to restrict the travel of the valve, this effectively stops the power hike but the normal state of tune here (I live in the uk) is to balance the reg pressure with the hammer load, done correctly ES can be in the low single figures throughout the whole fill, this method also eeks out the most amount of shots per charge.



this is a couple of screen shot of the results of a gun I recently tuned.

1565161948_12553849305d4a79dc507b47.54837416_C5479A29-8336-4392-B043-A9CDE6633733.jpeg


1565161948_19673060155d4a79dc9d0a11.53730641_4075A7F5-7CB9-4DDD-BD39-B8B23757D354.jpeg






Bb
 
actually i ended up with a reg setting around 120-130 bar (huma told me that their reg tester would not work with the agt reg but i dont understand why, because they are offering their own reg. for the vulcan which can be installed without any modifications)

still the shorter and stiffer spring but with a proper last flattened coil ending and both ends are polished shiny.

i managed to put some pellets hole in hole at 25m but now it seems that the vulcan became more pellet fusy.

is that maybe because with less speed the skirt is less pushed into the groves ? or lower spin rates generally ?
 
hello,

interessting update:

i received my adaptor to use 1/2"unf moderators withoud the shroud or to screw on an additional moderator to the shroud

i tested:

factory shroud = bad groups

factory shroud + weihrauch moderator = better groups

weihrauch moderator directly on the barrel without the factory shroud = much better

lightweight carbon moderator directly on the barrel = near hole in hole groups. it weighs only 1.5 ounce / 43g

all testing was done with different jsb batches / lots @ 25m / 600 fps / .177 caliber

what was REALLY interessting too? its not pellet fussy anymore :)

so all my problems are related to barrel harmonics ?


 
update:

i turned the reg. down to the factory setting at around 90-100 bar and managed to shot this group:

full magazine 11 shots at 25m distance with jsb 4,52 / 10,34gr with 490 fps

with the factory shroud + weihrauch ldc - best results so far in MIlLIMETERS:

1566235497_2725299615d5adb696e1ee6.61659578_11 - 25m.jpg


so i dont know what is going on with this gun ? maybe it has needed several hundret pellets for leading in the barrel ? ill gues im around 1k pellets now. 

is a low fps spread more important at that low energy level im shooting with ?