Bubble levels / anti-cant… Thoughts?

Forums Optics, Scopes, Rings, & Mounts Bubble levels / anti-cant… Thoughts?

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    ptthere
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    So, I had a free credit to use with an online retailer and I didn't have a "need," but I had a want. So I applied it to a anti-cant bubble-level to mount on my scope.

    I've never used one before, but in theory they seem to make sense. My intention is improving my accuracy to the maximum, so my thoughts are that any edge I can get is worth a try. Most of my shooting is only targets, but some of it is longer-range fast-acquisition dispatching, so I am curious if the level will show me any errors or bad habits that I may have picked up over the years.

    I was wondering if anyone here had any experience with any of these, how you felt about them, did they help you, was it worth using, etc.?

    PT

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    yalel
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    Hi PT,

    a lot of people would profit from having a bubble level on their riflle as many do cant the rifle whilst  aiming /shooting.  Many would be sure they are not canting but in pracrice they do !  Holding the stock level is 1 thing when shooting but having your stock and scope equally level is also worth having a look at.  You can achieve this by having 2 bubble levels , 1 on your scope ( flat turret cap surface for example) and 1 on your rifle.  Both levels must be equally correct in order to have both elements aligned.  You can also level your stock first and then look through your scope at a rope that is free hanging or a window that is straigjt , or such  and align your vertical rectical to that whilst keeping your bubble level on the rifle in the middle ( horizontal) .   This way you are sure you have your rifle and scope horizontal  when the bubble level you bought is indicating so.

    canting yr rifle will result in ( unexpected) miss hits and many people do blaim their scope  or rifle or their skills as simply keeping things level will show improvements that will make them happy shooters again.

    good luck with the refinement of your shooting ! 

     

    P.s. A set of good scope rings is also essential to have your act together as not perfect rings will fuck up all said above as well.   I have a nice set of TIER ONE scope rings on my set up and although cheaper good rings are available the fct that those already had a bubble level built in and the guaranteed top notch measurements and fit made we swallow this financial burden for one in my life ( I hope) 

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    ptthere
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    yalel –

    Thanks for the response. What you said does make sense. I spent decades buried in centerfire and rimfire, but I finding modern air rifles as a new beast. The idea of having a level on a gun was new to me, but I am very curious about it now when it comes to short-range stuff (compared to firearms).

    As far as what you said about rings and leveling, I already mounted a solid one-piece mount with a 5" spread across the reciever (it ain't moving yet). I used a real level across the reciever with the stock unmounted and measured from the mounting bolts when centering the scope, so I am confident that is good (and it looks dead-on to the eye). But I will be sure to mount the level the same way as the rest.

    It is interesting to find new things in an airgun forum that I never used as a sniper. We all learn something new every day I guess! I am curious to see how it works out.

     

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    Cranky1
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    I have added a bubble to my bullpup and it has improved my accuracy with it. On my regular rifle style I tend to cant it much less. I wish more companies would put the bubble level inside the scope. It would be much easier to see, a ffp reticle with the bubble in the sfp, mil/mil, side focus…..okay I’m done dreaming. 

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    Joekrooz
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    I like and have bubble levels on all my scopes.  You don’t realize how canted your rig is until you use one.

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    2manyAirGunz
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    Member

    I use one bubble level on my setup — the scope — to give me a consistent reference point when shooting. For me. the gun does not have be perfectly level. It simply has to be in the exact same position as when it was zeroed, to get an accurate shot.

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    yalel
    Participant
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    2manyAirGunz

    I use one bubble level on my setup — the scope — to give me a consistent reference point when shooting. For me. the gun does not have be perfectly level. It simply has to be in the exact same position as when it was zeroed, to get an accurate shot.

     

    in my humble opinion  you will get consistent precision in your set up at the distance you zeroed in.  Try shooting at 20 yards shorter and longer and see if your accuracy is still there with a canted gun…..

     

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    starlingassn
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    ive posted this before,

    but its good info for setting up a level.

     

    you have to align the crosshairs of the scope with the bore before you adjust your level to…level.

    best method ive found is the mirror method,it perfectly aligns the crosshairs with the bore.

    get a mirror,set it up at say 5yds,set your scope to 10 yds (or when its focused in the mirror)

    look through the scope at your reflection in the mirror (a steady gun rest helps)

    rotate the scope till the vertical crosshair intersects the center of the barrel when the crosshairs are centered on the scope objective.

    "bam" your crosshairs are now aligned with the bore  ;D

    then you can use a plumb line

    (bright colored cord with a weight on the end hanging from a branch works for me)

    to level the crosshairs,

    (again a steady gun rest helps greatly)

    then you can adjust the level to level.

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    2manyAirGunz
    Participant
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    yalel

    2manyAirGunz

    I use one bubble level on my setup — the scope — to give me a consistent reference point when shooting. For me. the gun does not have be perfectly level. It simply has to be in the exact same position as when it was zeroed, to get an accurate shot.

     

    in my humble opinion  you will get consistent precision in your set up at the distance you zeroed in.  Try shooting at 20 yards shorter and longer and see if your accuracy is still there with a canted gun…..

     

    +1

    Thanks for your explanation.

    See 13:00 minute of the following video:

     

     

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    DirtyDovi
    Participant
    Member

    I went around 25 years using 1 or 2 larger bubble/spirit levels to mount my scopes..
    A month or so ago,  I saw that the maker of my scope also offered an anti-cant level-ring, so I grabbed one..
    It showed up while I was at work, so, I threw the flat side on the counter – to find out that the counter wasn't 100 level.
    I shimmed that, and got it 100%.  Then,  I used it to level my air rifle..  Lastly, threw it on the scope, mounted and leveled that..
    Less tools involved, and now, I have it mounted where I know where it is at all times – if needed..
    I also used it a few times for its intended purpose..  When bench-shooting,  I compared what I thought was 'level' 
    to what was 'actually level' when using the bipod and shouldering..  Pretty neat.
    And as mentioned above,  it helped get the cross hairs level / plumb [saving me from using the ol' hanging string trick]

    The one I went with was the Discovery Optics brand w/ the new over-sized bubble..[8mm vs the old 6mm]
    For $10 bucks,  it has already paid for itself, and that said,  I'll probably even grab a few more.

    🙂 

    Sam –

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    JWilson
    Participant
    Member

    I use this on all my air rifles.

    They are nice and low profile. I can see the bubble and center on bottom of reticle without any repositioning of my sight picture. I think it aids in building good form and habit for accurate shooting.

    Joe

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    ptthere
    Participant
    Member

    DirtyDovi

    I went around 25 years using 1 or 2 larger bubble/spirit levels to mount my scopes..
    A month or so ago,  I saw that the maker of my scope also offered an anti-cant level-ring, so I grabbed one..
    It showed up while I was at work, so, I threw the flat side on the counter – to find out that the counter wasn't 100 level.
    I shimmed that, and got it 100%.  Then,  I used it to level my air rifle..  Lastly, threw it on the scope, mounted and leveled that..
    Less tools involved, and now, I have it mounted where I know where it is at all times – if needed..
    I also used it a few times for its intended purpose..  When bench-shooting,  I compared what I thought was 'level' 
    to what was 'actually level' when using the bipod and shouldering..  Pretty neat.
    And as mentioned above,  it helped get the cross hairs level / plumb [saving me from using the ol' hanging string trick]

    The one I went with was the Discovery Optics brand w/ the new over-sized bubble..[8mm vs the old 6mm]
    For $10 bucks,  it has already paid for itself, and that said,  I'll probably even grab a few more.

    🙂 

    Sam –

    Good to hear, that's the one I ordered as well.

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    nervoustrig
    Participant
    Member

    Definitely helps with precision, especially at longer ranges.  At progressively greater holdover points, the more the angular error results in being off target.  The idea is to ensure the pellet’s “rise” and fall is precisely in line with the reticle, meaning in line with the force of gravity.  However if the scope is not oriented correctly to the barrel, you’ll still have a source of error.  Many people attempt to install a level relative to some feature on the gun (e.g. the stock, the receiver/scope rail) but there is no guarantee that will work.  The method described by starlingassassin will work 100% of the time, and as a side benefit it requires no special tools or fixtures.

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    Dansker
    Participant
    Member

    +1   level is essential,  AirGuns are low-velocity so anytime past 40-50 years you are lobbing ballistically,  any cant on the gun will result in the pellet going in the direction of the lean.  
    its also a great habit former, simply because you will notice that your standard hold might not be level, and start adjusting in all the positions to a better grip,  this will benefit you when you are in a hurry and already have ironed out the grip so you are closer than you used to be even if you don't look just now.

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    Peskadot671
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    JWilson

    I use this on all my air rifles.

    They are nice and low profile. I can see the bubble and center on bottom of reticle without any repositioning of my sight picture. I think it aids in building good form and habit for accurate shooting.

    Joe

    Who makes that and where did you get it?

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    ptthere
    Participant
    Member

    Thanks for all the info guys! I'm excited to try it out this week. I consider myself very knowledgeable in the world of firearms, but since I recently dove into the world of airguns, I am humbled by much of this that is new to me. I appreciate your feedback!

    PT

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    nervoustrig
    Participant
    Member

    Just be aware those that attach to the scope rail usually cannot be adjusted.  There are about a half dozen potential sources of error (machining errors, offset in the scope rings, lateral bias in the barrel, etc.) that can cause this type of level to indicate incorrectly.

     

    Conversely, the basic spirit levels that attach to the scope tube are both inexpensive and can be rotated to compensate for these errors.

     

    There are 3 conditions that must be satisfied to eliminate cant error.

     

    Step 1 is orient the scope to the barrel…the mirror portion described by starlingassassin above where the reticle simultaneously bisects the barrel and objective bell.  This step eliminates scope cant.

     

    Step 2 is orient the level to the reticle.  Note we don’t want to orient the level to the gun, we want it oriented to the reticle.  This step is done by viewing a plumb line through the scope and holding it so the vertical bar of the reticle is perfectly vertical, then affixing the spirit level so it indicates level.

     

    Step 3 is to hold the gun level when you shoot.  This step eliminates gun cant.

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    jps2486
    Participant
    Member

    Scope cant makes a big difference.  You can test it yourself.  Take a few shots with the rifle and reticle as perfectly verticle as you can.  Then tilt the rifle 10 degrees and take a few shots.  You will see how far off the POI is.

    There are some nifty levels on Ebay for $8.50 which can be used on both 1 inch and 30MM scopes.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hunting-Alloy-Bubble-Spirit-Level-for-Rifle-Scope-Laser-with-30mm-to-1-Reducer/172595490030?epid=871568488&hash=item282f7e2cee:g:4kkAAOSwCU1Y2D-J:rk:1:pf:0

    • This reply was modified 6 days ago by jps2486.
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    Scotchmo
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    jps2486

    Scope cant makes a big difference.  You can test it yourself.  Take a few shots with the rifle and reticle as perfectly verticle as you can.  Then tilt the rifle 10 degrees and take a few shots.  You will see how far off the POI is.

    There are some nifty levels on Ebay for $8.50 which can be used on both 1 inch and 30MM scopes.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hunting-Alloy-Bubble-Spirit-Level-for-Rifle-Scope-Laser-with-30mm-to-1-Reducer/172595490030?epid=871568488&hash=item282f7e2cee:g:4kkAAOSwCU1Y2D-J:rk:1:pf:0

    jps2486,

    What you are describing is gun-cant, not scope-cant.

    Scope-cant is when the scope is rotated too much, one way or the other, in the rings. You can have scope cant, even when holding the reticle perfectly level.

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    dan_house
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    Member

    hahaha was waiting for Scott to chime in….

     

     

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