How do you guys/gals feel about the use of bronze brushes for barrel cleaning? Please excuse me if this a duplicate question, but I'm having issues narrowing things down with new "SEARCH" function
Bronze Brushes
- Thread starter dark1961
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Don’t recommend them. Don’t need anything that abrasive. I have used Brownell’s mops and lately been using bore whips. www.bore-tips.com
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I have been tempted myself....but that degree of scrubbing is probably overkill for air guns.
All mine ever get is patches with just a bit of mild bore cleaner.
All mine ever get is patches with just a bit of mild bore cleaner.
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Bronze will scratch up the breech O-Ring, and reduce it's effectiveness and life. Nylon will do the same thing, just take longer. AEAC recommends Patchworm and Ballistal. Works great, so why push the limits of the gun? No powder fouling, no copper buildup, so no need for the heavy duty PB cleaning stuff.
Just my 2 cents.
Just my 2 cents.
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Disagree ... if you have a leaded up STEEL air gun barrel it needs a good bronze brushing !
Felt mops, nylon brushes simply won't cut it.
IMO ... It is a falsehood repeated over and over where folks simply state what they have read by those stating what they have read to the point it is taken as a fact that a bronze brush will damage a steel air gun barrel.
What has potential to damage the barrel is the rod itself brush is attached too. Crown saving sleeves or coated rods are a must.
Now that said ... in an air gun, seldom would you need to bronze brush the bore because at sub 1000 fps velocity leading is not a chronic problem.
Tight chokes and shooting harder lead projectiles sadly increase lead fouling.
JMO,
Scott
Felt mops, nylon brushes simply won't cut it.
IMO ... It is a falsehood repeated over and over where folks simply state what they have read by those stating what they have read to the point it is taken as a fact that a bronze brush will damage a steel air gun barrel.
What has potential to damage the barrel is the rod itself brush is attached too. Crown saving sleeves or coated rods are a must.
Now that said ... in an air gun, seldom would you need to bronze brush the bore because at sub 1000 fps velocity leading is not a chronic problem.
Tight chokes and shooting harder lead projectiles sadly increase lead fouling.
JMO,
Scott
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I believe Scott is correct. I have found lead hard to get out of a barrel. Now the question is do you have a lead problem. I have no idea . I think that is the more interesting discussion. I would suspect the smoother barrels are less likely to lead up and the higher velocity the more likely . If you do have lead the best way in fact the only way I’ve been able to get it out is a bronze brush and JB bore paste . If you use JB paste and you get a bunch of black stuff on the cleaning patches that’s lead. Right? What else would it be in an air rifle .
i think you want to clean efficiently. Some people seem to think 100 passes with a cleaning patch is better then 10 with a bore brush. I think the issue with rod damage enters here.
The critical thing is to know what you you are dealing with. My guess is the guys that shoot slugs at high velocity’s are the ones facing leading. But I don’t know
another point bore mops. They are to introduce solvents not to clean. I think you need a tight patch if you have a fouling problem. For some situations a bore moo may be all that is needed.
Having said all of this I use nylon brushes and bore snakes most ioften in my air rifles and 22’s but if I have an accuracy issue I go after it.
I haven’t experienced leading in air rifles but 22’s can lead up and be difficult to clean. The crazy part of this is some 22’s seem to shoot better with a dirty bore then they do with a clean one.
Short answer do what works.
i think you want to clean efficiently. Some people seem to think 100 passes with a cleaning patch is better then 10 with a bore brush. I think the issue with rod damage enters here.
The critical thing is to know what you you are dealing with. My guess is the guys that shoot slugs at high velocity’s are the ones facing leading. But I don’t know
another point bore mops. They are to introduce solvents not to clean. I think you need a tight patch if you have a fouling problem. For some situations a bore moo may be all that is needed.
Having said all of this I use nylon brushes and bore snakes most ioften in my air rifles and 22’s but if I have an accuracy issue I go after it.
I haven’t experienced leading in air rifles but 22’s can lead up and be difficult to clean. The crazy part of this is some 22’s seem to shoot better with a dirty bore then they do with a clean one.
Short answer do what works.
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I never use any kind of brush other than nylon on my air rifles, and mostly just pull through patches. I'm not sure what I believe regarding the positions different folks have of bronze brushes being able to scratch the barrel, or not. Bronze is softer than the barrel steel, true enough. But,I remember an incident where I scratched a car windshield with a plastic scraper. The plastic, I assume, was softer than the glass, but it sure scratched it. Perhaps there was some surface coating on top of the glass that actually scratched, not sure. That aside, I know that a softer material can scratch a harder one with sufficient pressure and repetition. I suspect the truth is, yes it's possible to do some damage with a bronze brush, but very unlikely with reasonable use. I agree 100% with Scott regarding the risk of damage from the cleaning rod, which I have seen. I used to do a lot of centerfire BR, in which barrel cleaning is a ritual practiced after every session. I would occasionally cringe to see some bozo whipping the cleaning rod in and out, pushing it well out of the muzzle before jerking it back towards the breech. Not only was the rod bouncing all around the muzzle crown, but there was so much flex in his buggy whipping style, I'm sure the rod was also rubbing the inside of the bore at its apex. These are the folks who complain about a barrel not lasting more than 1,000 rounds. The only air rifle barrel that I know for a fact needed a brush (nylon) to get it clean, was a polygonal barrel. Guess I'm a contrarian when it comes to poly barrels, don't like them with any type of lead projectile.
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This is my experience, others mileage may vary:
With a Hawkeye borescope I can see bronze deposited on the bore after cleaning with the brush. I do occasionally use them when absolutely called for.
I have seen the area just ahead of the breech very leaded with the remainder of the barrel clear on big bores shooting round balls.
L/W .177 Polygon bbl interior finish looks rough through the scope and requires more frequent cleaning. I have no experience with other calibers.
Harder lead reduces leading on bigbores. I have seen a .50 cal at 900 fps foul in 5 shots using pure lead. Proper fit is important to allow use of harder lead. I think pure lead was the standard to accommodate for bore diameter variations or the use of a choke (which was used for the same reason).
Over tight chokes are far worse than no choke at all due to rapid leading.
If you are seeing silver lead flakes on your patch chances are your accuracy was degraded to some degree.
Tip: I found medical gauze coupled with a tight fitting jag to be a good lead remover patch. My other favorite is Butch's Twill patches. The twill pattern acts as a scraper. I use 50/50 mix of Kano Kroil with Shooters Choice LEAD REMOVER bore cleaner.
Will Piatt
With a Hawkeye borescope I can see bronze deposited on the bore after cleaning with the brush. I do occasionally use them when absolutely called for.
I have seen the area just ahead of the breech very leaded with the remainder of the barrel clear on big bores shooting round balls.
L/W .177 Polygon bbl interior finish looks rough through the scope and requires more frequent cleaning. I have no experience with other calibers.
Harder lead reduces leading on bigbores. I have seen a .50 cal at 900 fps foul in 5 shots using pure lead. Proper fit is important to allow use of harder lead. I think pure lead was the standard to accommodate for bore diameter variations or the use of a choke (which was used for the same reason).
Over tight chokes are far worse than no choke at all due to rapid leading.
If you are seeing silver lead flakes on your patch chances are your accuracy was degraded to some degree.
Tip: I found medical gauze coupled with a tight fitting jag to be a good lead remover patch. My other favorite is Butch's Twill patches. The twill pattern acts as a scraper. I use 50/50 mix of Kano Kroil with Shooters Choice LEAD REMOVER bore cleaner.
Will Piatt
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This debate will never end but it still is an interesting and almost compelling subject.
I’ve have always wondered how much cleaning is necessary and just how dirty the barrel is after the first shot is fired.
All anecdotal evidence and very little science but again we all do what we THINK works.
I’ve given up on extremely high velocity calibers due to bore fouling and barrel wear as we move toward higher and higher velocity air rifles we may find some disadvantages
I’ve have always wondered how much cleaning is necessary and just how dirty the barrel is after the first shot is fired.
All anecdotal evidence and very little science but again we all do what we THINK works.
I’ve given up on extremely high velocity calibers due to bore fouling and barrel wear as we move toward higher and higher velocity air rifles we may find some disadvantages
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It is definitely an interesting topic with much to be learned!, but I know you have to approach it objectively, first thing is I know for a fact! that to be objective you have to know what the interior of your barrel looks like both CLEAN & DIRTY! to do so is very expensive because as I’ve stated before in this forum you need a proper tool for this job which is a GRADIENT LENS BORESCOPE($1400-1800 depending on model etc.) this is essential! Another thing to keep in mind every barrel is different in respect to how fast it picks up lead or not?, plus I also learned that a barrel may go 1000 or 100 rnds before it starts to show inaccuracies or fouling etc. and when it does give indication of these traits you better do something quick! Because it’s only going to escalate rapidly? one last thing I will add is you have to shoot each barrel until you get a good “feel” for it’s traits and characteristics... I’m not going into what cleaning methods regimen etc. you should use,I know what I do and works for me...and it might be different for each barrel I own! I will say one more thing that is a lot of people don’t take into consideration the quality of air you are feeding you barrel? which is a big factor in this discussion!, sorry to OP if I strayed from his original topic.
Joe
Joe
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Good points Joe. I don’t know about air guns but I’ve played enough with powder burning varmint rifles that I can feel when the barrel is clean. ( by how the nylon brush slides thru the bore).
Ive got lots to learn on the air guns and it’s a challenge because typically you can’t ckean thru the back end of the chamber like a powder burner . Plus a different type and quantity of fouling.
Quality of air? Now there is something maybe that needs to be discussed . I just went to nitrogen for other reasons but what do we need to know about air quality? ( don’t smoke while you are pumping up your Sheridan Silver Streak ?
Ive got lots to learn on the air guns and it’s a challenge because typically you can’t ckean thru the back end of the chamber like a powder burner . Plus a different type and quantity of fouling.
Quality of air? Now there is something maybe that needs to be discussed . I just went to nitrogen for other reasons but what do we need to know about air quality? ( don’t smoke while you are pumping up your Sheridan Silver Streak ?
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Clean air ... kind of a stretch IMO ( unless speaking moisture and related issues it brings with it )
Now Co2 ... that's a very dirty gas !!
Now Co2 ... that's a very dirty gas !!
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Motorhead- I didn’t say “clean” I said QUALITY! Now you can read into that whatever you want? I’m sure you have much more expertise than I in anything airgun related!
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Ok I’ll bite what do you mean by quality air? If it’s clean and dry what’s left. Good looking 
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Yes, that is was I was referring to, moisture and oil mainly, you can also see the effects of this in regs,valves and seats etc. but I’m taking this in a totally different direction than OP’s topic
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My bad ... typing quick and thinking shallow.
QUALITY = low moisture, no oil or other contaminates ..... AGREE
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Well said. I have been saying this for so long. Don't be afraid of using a brass brush, folks. All patches are going to do is smear the lead on the bore's lands and grooves. Using a bronze brush makes removing lead easy and done in a few strokes.
I tell you what--take a lead swarf and smear it on a metal surface with a hard object, like a spoon. I bet you'll be thinking twice now after doing this.
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I tell you what--take a lead swarf and smear it on a metal surface with a hard object, like a spoon. I bet you'll be thinking twice now after doing this.
I must disagree about the effectiveness of patches. Granted, some lead fouling needs brushing, but, 90%+ of my barrel cleaning is with patches and Ballistol, and it works very well. Even when I see lead flakes on the patches, a few more usually does the job. If the barrel has some rough spots around the port, yes, it usually needs more aggressive cleaning. I've never had any problems around the choke, but I can see where you might. By the way, what is a swarf?
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Lots of discussions, lots of opinions, lots of folklore on all sides of the discussion.
Since none of us have the right equipment, I'd bet the manufacturers do have the right equipment to make a recommendation. Anyone know what the manufacturers say? Could vary by maker as well. Anyone know?
Update:
Just searched the Crosman site for their advice. Granted this one mentioned BB guns as well, but here's their answer (This is a copy and paste from their "Support, Ask Phil section. It doesn't directly address bronze brushes but cleaning in general: This is Crosman advice for Crosman and Benjamin airguns. Does anyone have anything similar for FX or maybe Daystate?
There is no compelling reason to clean the barrel, so don’t.
Long Answer
Because airguns operate with a blast of air, most small particles of residue are blown out of the barrel as the airgun is fired. Occasionally, the bore should be swabbed out with a clean, dry patch. I use no solvents on airgun bores because of the danger of the solvent getting into the valves. The valve seats are usually made of some sort of plastic or rubbery material that can be damaged by cleaning solvents. Just push a dry patch through the bore a couple of times to remove any small particles of lead or other material. Do not allow any gun cleaning solvent to enter the pump mechanism or cylinder compartment of an air or CO2 gun.
Really Long Answer for the self-proclaimed expert, that won’t accept the good advice in the first two answers
Here is some more specific advice:
You generally do not clean an airgun barrel. One initial cleaning when the gun is brand new, may be all you ever need. It is better to under clean, than over clean. Depending on your equipment you can damage the rifling or more important the Crown (the very end of the rifling, as you exit the barrel).
The only reason to clean a barrel is if you feel the accuracy has been reduced from what is normally expected.
Do not use an uncoated steel rod or steel brushes in inside of a steel barrel, a brass rod is OK. If it is a Brass Benjamin or Sheridan, some type of plastic “pull though” fishing line or use a wooden rod to push a patch through. A one piece aluminum cleaning rod may also work. There is even less reason to clean a Benjamin, just leave it alone.
Use only a clean, dry “cleaning patch” of the proper size.
Since none of us have the right equipment, I'd bet the manufacturers do have the right equipment to make a recommendation. Anyone know what the manufacturers say? Could vary by maker as well. Anyone know?
Update:
Just searched the Crosman site for their advice. Granted this one mentioned BB guns as well, but here's their answer (This is a copy and paste from their "Support, Ask Phil section. It doesn't directly address bronze brushes but cleaning in general: This is Crosman advice for Crosman and Benjamin airguns. Does anyone have anything similar for FX or maybe Daystate?
There is no compelling reason to clean the barrel, so don’t.
Long Answer
Because airguns operate with a blast of air, most small particles of residue are blown out of the barrel as the airgun is fired. Occasionally, the bore should be swabbed out with a clean, dry patch. I use no solvents on airgun bores because of the danger of the solvent getting into the valves. The valve seats are usually made of some sort of plastic or rubbery material that can be damaged by cleaning solvents. Just push a dry patch through the bore a couple of times to remove any small particles of lead or other material. Do not allow any gun cleaning solvent to enter the pump mechanism or cylinder compartment of an air or CO2 gun.
Really Long Answer for the self-proclaimed expert, that won’t accept the good advice in the first two answers
Here is some more specific advice:
You generally do not clean an airgun barrel. One initial cleaning when the gun is brand new, may be all you ever need. It is better to under clean, than over clean. Depending on your equipment you can damage the rifling or more important the Crown (the very end of the rifling, as you exit the barrel).
The only reason to clean a barrel is if you feel the accuracy has been reduced from what is normally expected.
Do not use an uncoated steel rod or steel brushes in inside of a steel barrel, a brass rod is OK. If it is a Brass Benjamin or Sheridan, some type of plastic “pull though” fishing line or use a wooden rod to push a patch through. A one piece aluminum cleaning rod may also work. There is even less reason to clean a Benjamin, just leave it alone.
Use only a clean, dry “cleaning patch” of the proper size.
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