BKA Model 75 "Original" I think it's a Diana???

Forums Springers, Pumpers, C02, & Vintage BKA Model 75 "Original" I think it's a Diana???

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    Crank
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    Just wanted to see if the BKA name rings a bell for anyone. Yesterday I stopped by one of the local shops and caught up with some of the guys I hadn't seen for a while. I mentioned that I had gone back to air rifles as my focus. They piped up that they had some fancy target air rifle sitting in the back and brought it out for me to look at. Sidelever, spring piston, .177 and diopter sights. At first glance, I was thinking it was a Diana, but it doesn't say that anywhere on the gun. It has BKA in a diamond at the forward part of the air tube and "Original" on the top of the main body. It says Made in Germany and a date code around 78 or 79, not sure, I'm at work and going by memory. I'm pretty certain it's a Diana, just imported by some other company and wanted to see if anyone has seen one before. We negotioated a fair price and it followed me home. I fired a couple of pellets to make sure it worked and it definitely is recoilless. I can post photos after work, but trust me it looks like every picture of a Diana 75 you can find on the internet. Thanks in advance for any insight that can be provided.

    Thanks

     

    Mark

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    MMCM13
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    Seems like I ran across that as an approval mark by "BKA" the German FBI. Look at the Original 75 test in Tom Gaylords blog?

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    Crank
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    German FBI??? Was this the sniper rifle for Hostage Rescue Teams when field mice were involved!😁

     

    Mark

    P.S. Already read the article, but didn't notice any photos or reference to BKA

    thanks

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    JW652
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    The Diana trademark and machinery was sold by the Allies to Milbro (Scotland) as war reparations and airguns were forbidden in Germany. In 1950 the Allied Control Council permitted the sale and manufacturing of limited velocity airguns in Germany. The original owners of the Dianawerks trademark (Mayers) began building rifles again . Rifles were sold in Germany under the tradename "Original". Milbro died as a company and the Dianawerks  tradename was bought back in the early '80s. BKA is probably the logo of a retailer. You have a 75 made for the German market.

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    Crank
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    JW652,

    😢 I was really hoping I could run with the mouse themed FBI reference…..mickey mouse tuxedo GIF

    On a lighter note, now I understand that "Original" is actually the tradename and Diana wasn't a public thing yet. I'm looking forward to put some pellets through it. Most of the threads I found referred to the fact that the original seals don't age well. This one buried a pellet flush in a 2×4, so it seems to be strong enough and doesn't need service yet.

    Thanks

     

    Mark

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    MDriskill
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    MMCM13: You may be thinking of the “F in pentagon” marking, used since 1970 on German airguns that meet the government-approved power levels of 7.5 joules (about 6 FPE) for sale on the open market. More powerful guns require a firearm license.

    jw652: Thanks for the “BKA” note. I’ve never seen one of these but you are no doubt correct it’s a sellers trademark. But I think you meant to say the “Original” trade name was used on German-made Dianas, sold in UK-controlled markets, during the time that Milbro had rights to the “Diana” trademark there. At that time Mayer & Grammelspacher used “Diana,” not “Original,” for the German market.

    M&G used a lot of trademarks in different markets, or for various retailers, over the years: besides Diana and Original. RWS is the most familiar recent one in the US, but Beeman, Condor, Gecado, Geco, Hy-Score, Peerless, Winchester, and more were seen on M&G-manufactured airguns back in the day.

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    JW652
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       Hi Mike – Thanks for the save. Thought there was a difference between "Original Diana" (Brit Territories) and "Original" for the homeland, but gladly defer to your expertise. Gettin' too old. Looked at my 75 which was manufactured in 1977. Sure enough, it is marked "Diana" and also BKA.

       Anyway, Crank you have an authentic 75 and should enjoy the accuracy and old world craftsmanship – especially in this age of plastic fantastic.

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    MDriskill
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    Very true, the Diana model 75 is a fantastic rifle, one of the high-water marks of spring-piston design for sure. A find to be treasured, and all the more collectible with the special marking.

    I’d love to see those photos promised in the original post? 

    Marking guns for a specific dealer or distributor is actually a long tradition in German gunmaking. I have a pre-war Diana model 45 underlever, which is marked on top of the barrel, “WAFFEN-JUNG STUTTGART CALWERSTR.” Waffen-Jung was a well-known dealer (which by the way, is still in business at the Calwerstrasse location, doing rather incredible custom work… https://waffenjung.de/?sLang=en )

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    Crank
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    Hopefully these pictures will load. Looks like it worked. Turns out she is 40 years old this month.

     

    Mark

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    MDriskill
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    Thanks! Nice pics. Yep, that's an early model 75, what a beauty, too! Appreciate the shot of the “BKA” logo, again a new one on me.

    Just curious, is it a 75, or a 75 T01? The designation is stamped on top of the receiver, and embossed on top of the rear sight too, which was changed. The vast majority of 75's are T01's, but guessing by the early date this might be the rarer first model (the 75 hit the market in the summer of 1977).

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    Crank
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    No, there are no markings on the gun or sight that indicates TO1. I did find the patent markings

    Here is the only marking on the rear sight.

     

    Seems it's that less common one. What did the TO1 have that made it different?

     

    Mark

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    MDriskill
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    There may have been some minor changes to the trigger – don’t remember for sure – but the T01’s main changes were to the sights.

    The front sight on your gun probably has an ingenious adjustable iris opening; the T01 front sight is a more conventional unit that uses metal inserts. The T01 rear sight was changed to have a flat mounting rail and, in a move that has always mystified me, slightly less space between the rails. The original 75 sight will fit many earlier Diana riles, but the T01 diopter will not.

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    DualMagMike
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    I found a nice 75B some months ago sits so still when fired it's weird…

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    jeffhouck
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    My wife shoots a left hand 75 T01. What were the years that it was made? It's dated 06 87.

    I shoot the Diana 100 that I bought in 1991ish when it was first brought into the country for the special introductory price of $300.00!

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    MDriskill
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    I don’t know the production dates exactly, but the 75 stayed in the catalogs until the 2000’s I believe.

    I know of 3 variations in the model 75 action: the original gun as discussed above, the T01, and the K running boar variant. The latter was very rare, and had a trigger modified for single-stage action, a scope rail that ran the full length of the receiver up to the loading port, the same rounded stock as the “Universal” variant, was supplied sans sights as RB is shot with specialized scopes. The vast majority of 75’s are T01’s.

    There are 3 variations of walnut stocks: 1) original Match “porthole” stock as seen on the “BKA” gun above; 2) “HV” stock which looked very similar but had an adjustable tall cheekpiece and came with sight riser blocks; 3) “U” / “K” universal stock with new rounded styling, extensive fore arm and grip stippling, and adjustable cheek; came with removable hand plate, sight risers, and a bunch of removable barrel weights for balance adjustment.

    Late in the 75’s life (after SSP and CO2 actions took over top-level competition), the walnut stocks were discontinued and the beech “B” and “S” stocks introduced. The “B” is a sort of simplified version of the former Match shape, and the “S” of the old U stock. The B and S are very nice guns in their own right, a bit more compact than the older walnut woodwork and the actions have all the latest-and-greatest seal materials, etc.

     

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    T-Higgs
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    MDriskill,

    Crank, I apologize if this seems a hyjack but I think it is nice to have threads with lots of info on these old guns all in one place. Many old Airgun Forum threads have been lost and new ones like this can help fill in some gaps. 

    That being said, I have a few questions if I may and perhaps MDriskill or others can answer. I have two 75’s one is a Model 75 HV. The rifle is dated 01 83. I’m a bit confused about the sights on this rifle. It is not marked T01. It has the front tunnel that originally had a mechanism for changing the aperture. The internal workings were missing when I acquired the rifle. I bought a clear insert from airgunwerks to fill the void. It was missing the rear sight and rear sight riser. I’ve aquired the rear riser but it kind of fought me going on. It was very tight. I found a non T01 rear sight set that had been milled flat at some point and put that sight on the newly acquired base but also was tight but worked. The sight was stamped 2104 on the bottom. I’m wondering if my HV is a T01 but it is not marked as such?? Perhaps I have the wrong rear riser??

       My second rifle is the beach stocked 75 T01 with the 100 sight set. The rifle is dated 04 92. The ports in the side of the forearm were not original to the rifle but put there before being refinished. I’m only adding this for more information in this thread for those that find it later in their search. 

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    Crank
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    T-Higgs,

    No problem at all. This kind of shared information benefits everyone. With all of the revalations, I'm realizing that my casual purchase was a nice little score. I always admired the aesthetics of 10m rifles and being mostly unschooled in the variety, I only had a passing  familiarity with the FWB 300. When this popped up, I figured I could scratch the itch to own one and feel very lucky to have it. I'm thankful for all of the input to this thread and encourage more chatter.

    Thanks

     

    Mark

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    MDriskill
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    Well, the short answer to your HV is, “I don’t know!” With German airguns there always seems to be one more head-scratching variation out there just when you think you know it all, LOL.

    If it weren’t for the date stamp, I’d say someone simply dropped an older action into a newer stock. Perhaps it was an unsold NOS action put into late service by the factory (I have long susptected the date stamps were applied when the gun was assembled, not when the receiver tube was manufactured). Diana and other large makers sometimes did things like that to clear out the warehouse, perhaps giving a discount price to a distributor, etc.

    As possible indirect confirmation, I have a Diana model 60 Tyrolean (Giss action barrel cocker) dated 1982, though I’m sure many of its components, most obviously the stock, are older.

     

     

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    T-Higgs
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    Well I appreciate the reply Mike. I don’t suppose anyone would like to post pics of the different 75 dovetails? It would be nice to see the difference between the T01 and the other non T01. By the way, does the non T01 rail have a name or designation?

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    Crank
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    On the lighter side, I think the Germans we're still bitter about the war at this point. I got the tap for the incredibly fine M10x.75 thead on the sight hold down disc, made the a new disc, bored it and threaded it, only to find out that it was left hand thread…..😠 Never even thought to look for that. So I need that part if anyone has a spare.

     

    Mark

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