Best gas ram technology?

I own the Diana 340 N tec Luxus (Walnut stock beautiful grain). I really love this gas-ram. I also own a new Diana 34 spring rifle. Both put out 17 ft/lbs. The firing cycle of the gas ram is much better than spring and therefore more accurate. Hector Media (Custom Airguns) has written that gas rams should be stored muzzle down for 48 hours before the first shot. I followed his advice and just really enjoy this smooth rifle. It also came with a very nice 1 pound trigger that is as good as my AirArms TX200 and HW77.

I don't have any experience with any other gas rams BUT I did find the name of the German gas Ram manufacturer. I have yet to visit their web site and now I can't find their name.

Bought it from A of A

Well, let me put it like this; you get what you pay for. I've owned a couple of Hatsan's and they all left my collection within weeks. I also owned a Diana 340 N-Tec, and even that one has been sold 7 months later. I'm back to old fashioned springers, the Air Arms TX200 HC MKIII to be precise and it shoots better than even the best German gas ram I've owned so far. So don't get indoctrinated by the gas ram hype. Oh, and yes, the N-Tec gas ram is the best, next to Theoben. But replacing a spring is a whole lot cheaper when things go FUBAR.

I have the SIG ASP20 and would say it is a good solid gun. It shoots better than the RWS springers that I have shot at that power level, I have not shot the RWS gas ram though. My HW97 at 12 ft lb is easier to cock, kicks less, and less hold sensitive, but if you've gotta have power....

Theoben or the HW-90 with the Theoben designed gas ram. They have withstood the test of time. These are not throwaway replaceables like on some of the plastic fantastics. They are good for 100s of thousands of shots. At around 200K, you might have to replace a piston seal - but usually nothing else. Plus the HW-90 is affordable like all Weirauch rifles.

I have the SIG ASP20 and would say it is a good solid gun. It shoots better than the RWS springers that I have shot at that power level, I have not shot the RWS gas ram though. My HW97 at 12 ft lb is easier to cock, kicks less, and less hold sensitive, but if you've gotta have power....

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I had both a Theoben Eliminator (Beeman Crow Magnum III) and a Beeman RX1. Both were nice. I love my Sig ASP20 as well.

Unless you are going to sit in your blind for months at a time, don't worry about leaving your springer cocked.

Hw 99 huh? Sounds sweet. I didn't know they made a gas ram. Sweet. Now heres my deal on gas ram. The only reason I care is that I like to cock my rifle and then sit in my blind until I get the shot. I am worried about spring fatigue. Power is less important than accuracy but I would prefer 15fpe minimum on a 22cal or 12fpe in 177. I have been researching alot of stuff about hw springers and how to tune them. I might just go that route and cock quietly as i can.

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Like @c_m_shooter says, leaving a springer cocked for even a week or so isn't a problem for the spring when done occasionally, so don't worry about leaving it cocked for shorter periods of time to take a shot.

Side note; A gas ram cocks heavier at the beginning, while a spring takes more effort at the end of the compression stage. The Theoben gas ram that is used in the HW90 for instance, can be power adjusted with a hand pump. This is a huge plus compared to other gas ram systems.

Theoben or the HW-90 with the Theoben designed gas ram. They have withstood the test of time. These are not throwaway replaceables like on some of the plastic fantastics. They are good for 100s of thousands of shots. At around 200K, you might have to replace a piston seal - but usually nothing else. Plus the HW-90 is affordable like all Weirauch rifles.

I'll second that...I have an HW90 and a Beeman RX..

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Unless you are going to sit in your blind for months at a time, don't worry about leaving your springer cocked.

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Finally, a spring comment that makes sense. As a everyday hands-on engineer, I can tell you that compressing a spring to it's nominal limit does NOT weaken it by any significant value. What weakens springs the most is full cycling of the spring (fully compressed to uncompressed). This is why springs last as long as they do for years, in air rifles, in vehicle suspension, in magazines for firearms, etc.

In reference to the other responses, a friend of mine has the Sig ASP in .22 and I just bought a Benjamin NP2 also in .22. Both look kind-of similar with the fatter synthetic stocks. Just by perception, I feel like the Sig is putting out slightly more FPE than the Benjamin. It is also slightly harder to cock, but not much. If I had to take a stab at it, I would say the Sig is putting out somewhere between 27+-ish FPE and the Benjamin is around 23-24-ish FPE. Both seem solid and reliable in terms of predictability with the gas rams between cycles.

Gas rams in general are actually very simple devices and are easy to construct under today's modern manufacturing. I would guess that many mechanical faults found with certain air rifles are not the fault of the actual gas ram, but usually an engineering, assembly, or other mechanical flaw that interferes with the rest of the setup elsewhere in the rifle platform. Your mileage may vary depending on what you pick.

PT

The marketing claims for many gas rams is that the shot cycle is more consistent, they are less temperature-sensitive than springs, smoother, quiter, etc.

Some have done tests and found parts of it to be true, such as the temperature claim, and the "quiter" claim. But I have also seen guys with tuned springers knock out dime-sized groups all day long. So some of it may be subjective. I think you could find arguments both ways depending on different price-points.

PT

Yeah hw90 is looking real good. Also thanks for the info on the spring as well. I had always been told that you cant cock and wait to shoot more than 10mins.i feel much better about a springer now. Can anyone tell me if gas rams are actually less hold sensitive than a spring? I dont love the artillery hold when hunting off the sholder. Benchrest is fine but not when a squirrel is running up a tree. So a fully tuned and greased spring vs fully tuned gas ram. Would the gas ram be more accurate?

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I can only agree about the spring, don't sweat it. 

About the gas ram, also, I can only agree with those who tout the HW90. As bullet proof of a gas ram system that's ever been made. 

My experience is limited to the HW90/RX-1/2 as my cousin had one and we shot thousands of rounds together, me with my R1. 

The RX is heavy, heavier than the R1. Being a full size, full length barrel gun it's a hoss to carry around all day. Might want to know that if you plan to walk a lot. The cocking effort is considerably more on the RX than most springers. IIRC, the cocking force of the RX was published as 46lbs vs the 38lbs of the R1. Going from memory here so may be a little off. Regardless, a day of plinking or target work on the RX will make a man out of you. 

The RX was as accurate as any springer I've used and worked perfectly in the field role in which we used it. Bench target work? We didn't care, we were field shooters, not bench people. In .20 the thing was a hammer and I can imagine much more so in .22. 

One last word of caution, the recoil. The RX recoil is SHARP. There's no way around it, if you want more power OUT of an airgun you have to put more stored energy INTO it. And while the RX is a very powerful rifle, it has a heavier cocking stroke AND a stout jolt when firing. Granted, it's fast and smooth. But I remember when I first fired the gun, I was impressed and a bit surprised at the same time. You want to be sure you use proper technique when firing so you are comfortable and accurate. 

Having said all that, I'll tell you a properly tuned springer can be a complete joy to use. Deadly accurate and powerful depending on the what you are looking for from the rifle and tuner. My current R1 was tuned by Ed Kryznowek and it's a laser tied to a hammer. The shot cycle is smooth and quiet, vibration free. It's like a completely new rifle and I couldn't be happier. I'm so happy with it that I sent him my R9 for similar treatment, the goal being focused primarily on smoothness and quiet shot cycle more than power. Accuracy was already excellent and power was as expected for a fresh factory R9, I simply want that refined, slick, vibration free experience from the rifle. 

So don't discount a good springer in favor of a gas ram. Unless you really just have to have the power a gas gun can deliver I see no point in one over a springer. 

Unless you are going to sit in your blind for months at a time, don't worry about leaving your springer cocked.

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Finally, a spring comment that makes sense. As a everyday hands-on engineer, I can tell you that compressing a spring to it's nominal limit does NOT weaken it by any significant value. What weakens springs the most is full cycling of the spring (fully compressed to uncompressed). This is why springs last as long as they do for years, in air rifles, in vehicle suspension, in magazines for firearms, etc.

In reference to the other responses, a friend of mine has the Sig ASP in .22 and I just bought a Benjamin NP2 also in .22. Both look kind-of similar with the fatter synthetic stocks. Just by perception, I feel like the Sig is putting out slightly more FPE than the Benjamin. It is also slightly harder to cock, but not much. If I had to take a stab at it, I would say the Sig is putting out somewhere between 27+-ish FPE and the Benjamin is around 23-24-ish FPE. Both seem solid and reliable in terms of predictability with the gas rams between cycles.

Gas rams in general are actually very simple devices and are easy to construct under today's modern manufacturing. I would guess that many mechanical faults found with certain air rifles are not the fault of the actual gas ram, but usually an engineering, assembly, or other mechanical flaw that interferes with the rest of the setup elsewhere in the rifle platform. Your mileage may vary depending on what you pick.

PT

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The Sig in .22 cal is rated at 23 FPE. In warmer weather mine is getting 865 fps with the Sig Crux lead pellet weighing 14.7gr. Or 24.4 FPE.

The marketing claims for many gas rams is that the shot cycle is more consistent, they are less temperature-sensitive than springs, smoother, quiter, etc.

Some have done tests and found parts of it to be true, such as the temperature claim, and the "quiter" claim. But I have also seen guys with tuned springers knock out dime-sized groups all day long. So some of it may be subjective. I think you could find arguments both ways depending on different price-points.

PT

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I now use a FLIR TG54 temp gun in conjunction with chronograph testing. I shoot the reciever tube in a couple spots before conducting my chrony tests. These are my findings. Using the Sig Crux alloy pellet weighing 9.6 gr here are the velocities related to gun receiver tube temps. I've noticed the same phenomenon with any pellets l shoot.

61-62 deg. 1040 to 1050 fps

67-68 deg. 1045 to 1055 fps

71-73 deg. 1055 to 1065 fps

76-77 deg. 1065 to 1074 fps. 1074 fps is the highest velocity to date with my .22 cal Sig.

Gas springer velocities are very much effected by temp. I think the nitrogen gas charge pressure increases when it warms resulting in higher pressures behind the pellet. I don't think coilspring airguns would be effected that much by temperature. They are effected by Barometric pressure and elevation. But so are gas springers as well.

The marketing claims for many gas rams is that the shot cycle is more consistent, they are less temperature-sensitive than springs, smoother, quiter, etc.

Some have done tests and found parts of it to be true, such as the temperature claim, and the "quiter" claim. But I have also seen guys with tuned springers knock out dime-sized groups all day long. So some of it may be subjective. I think you could find arguments both ways depending on different price-points.

PT

Click to expand...

I now use a FLIR TG54 temp gun in conjunction with chronograph testing. I shoot the reciever tube in a couple spots before conducting my chrony tests. These are my findings. Using the Sig Crux alloy pellet weighing 9.6 gr here are the velocities related to gun receiver tube temps. I've noticed the same phenomenon with any pellets l shoot.

61-62 deg. 1040 to 1050 fps

67-68 deg. 1045 to 1055 fps

71-73 deg. 1055 to 1065 fps

76-77 deg. 1065 to 1074 fps. 1074 fps is the highest velocity to date with my .22 cal Sig.

Gas springer velocities are very much effected by temp. I think the nitrogen gas charge pressure increases when it warms resulting in higher pressures behind the pellet. I don't think coilspring airguns would be effected that much by temperature. They are effected by Barometric pressure and elevation. But so are gas springers as well.

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Interesting. But as said before, I think it is subjective. I have seen a lot of springer guys who swear by "don't leave it cocked." "POI/FPE will drop when it's cold," etc.

I have seen tests that show a 3% variation between the two in different temps, and one could argue that 3% is also the margin of error. I guess bottom line is, if you're happy with it, shoot it lol.

PT

The best gas ram tech is a spring. boom Mic drop!

FPS drop with temperature differences is minimal for one, part of the marketing hype around gas rams for second. If your FPS drops, adjust your sights accordingly and your back on target, so I honestly don't see a problem there. Tuning a spring powered rifle is quite easy, tuning a gas ram, not so much. And like @Raden1942 mentioned, what if that company goes out of business when your gas ram blows eventually? And even when they are still in business and you're able to get one, these things are expensive. All the more reason why I prefer the age old proven mechanics and reliability of springs.