Benjamin marauder barrel help

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All,

I'm currently working with Crosman barrel engineers to fix this exact problem. Their issue is that they can't change their tooling process in one shot........it's a work in progress. I recently recrowned a new Crosman barrel, and told the engineer of that fact, and he had solutions already lined up, waiting to be implemented. It'll get better, but the tooling change will be a slow transition, not a quick one.

When, and as they change their equipment for the better, they are going to be giving me different types and design barrels to test and evaluate. These will be in .177 only, as I generally don't shoot .22. They will be expanding their methods in creating different types of barrels, rifling, and twist rates. When they start producing a barrel that steps up accuracy and quality, I'll post my findings, provided I am allowed to by them.

Tom Holland 

Field Target Tech 
 
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Design versus workmanship. Designs take years to optimize. Good workmanship is always available now to anyone who wants it.

In 2016, Chip at Crosman stated:
"A word on barrel quality since that's always a hot topic. We make our own barrels. Over the past two years we've brought in-house the barrels for our high-end products. A couple of engineers started over from scratch. Looked at the twist rate. The grooves & lands. The crown. There's more airgun experience in this building than the rest of the industry combined and over the next few years you're going to see the results make their way across all the product lines."

I am hopeful that Crosman's more recent efforts will yield an improved design. Iterating through numerous variables like different bore dimensions, choke dimensions, rifling geometry, twist rate, etc., and then carefully testing and documenting the results can be a very lengthy process.

Workmanship on the other hand? Here again I am hopeful...but years of continued apathy for quality control tells a different story. They've earned a reputation for trashed rifling at the muzzle, burrs that gouge pellets, and crowns done with a dull countersink bit.

Comments from Sean Pero from over 5 years ago expressing frustration over the notable decline in the quality of Crosman's barrels:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=64067.msg612531#msg612531

Documented examples of damaged rifling spanning at least 3 years:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110179

One batch of bad barrels is a quality control slip. Doing it for years is a decision.
 
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Yeah that is lame. I am not too impressed. However the fit and finish on the rest of the rifle seems pretty good. I am surprised at the effectiveness and consistency of the regulator but wish I knew how to adjust its output. In any case I would buy a marauder again but ill make sure I get a green mountain barrel next time. It seems like the barrel is the weak spot i the rifle. I was also dismayed that the trigger was not real metal but some kind of brittle hot pressed metal dust of some kind. It seems very nice to me in the hand but the first time I put the gun back together I tightened the reciever screws without keeping the trigger pulled. It broke into dust. Oh well I still like it. Anyway I still like crosman but there are corners that have been cut to save money. No doubt about it. 
 
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Guys,

That was a good solid statement by Chip, and he is a good friend of mine and Crosman ambassador. He has since departed Crosman almost 3 years ago, and after he left, they brought in the new barrel engineers about a year and a half ago. 

You still have to keep in mind that their barrels will be made with different twist rates in the future, as well as a different barrel manufacturing process. As far as different barrel dimensions as far as the lands and grooves are concerned, they will only make a barrel that shoots THEIR pellets with accuracy. They do not, and will not make dimensions to vary from that, to make other brands of pellets more user friendly. That is not their goal. They will produce a barrel that will make their pellets shoot at their optimum. IF those barrels shoot other brands well, then great. If they don't, they have no interest in that fact. We'll see what happens, I'll keep you guys posted. 



Tom Holland 

Field Target Tech 
 
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Chip was a piece of work, and can't say Phillip, the current airgun product manager, is any better after seeing a two sentence product review, but giving it 5 stars in all categories, on a Fortitude review: https://www.crosman.com/fortitude-177 That pretty much sums up his integrity for me.

Anyway, back to barrels. I guess it is a good sign that they have already discovered that their new barrel process needs improving. In the past, they went through a denial phase.

I agree with Jason, there is design, and then their is quality and consistency. The latter has seemed to be the bigger issue, year after year.

Making the cheap ammo shoot the best, not sure that is winning strategy. Since not match shooting, not going to waste time and effort cleaning and sorting pellets. 

On the other hand, crosman is releasing a number of Mrod models this year that gives you a choice of barrels. You don't have to order from the CS shop, and don't need the regulator model. Given Tom's comments about continued problems, those LW barreled ones would be my 1st choice. Any testing, design, and re-tooling, will be years out.
 
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Raden,

Also, to be noted, the only Green Mountain Barrels that Crosman uses, are the .25 caliber, and possibly the larger .357 barrels. ALL of their .177 and .22 barrels are made in house, except for the optional Lothar Walther barrel on the Challenger and Marauder Field and Target. 

Tom Holland 

Field Target Tech
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Hi Tom, is this still the case? I had searched to see if the GM barrels were still being used in the 25’s and was told by a rep at Pyramyd that Crosman had started making the 25’s in house as well. I had heard so many good things about the GM barrels I decided to look for a used one based on that feedback. 
 
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Considering how the quality of Crosman’s pellets is a shadow of what it used to be, this strategy is peculiar to me on several levels. Firstly, how often do we see people putting up bughole groups with Crosman pellets? Very rarely. There are good reasons for that and they are as easy to spot as the smeared rifling. Widespread molding defects (pronounced parting lines and flashing) and highly variable head sizes. The evidence is overwhelming and widespread around the community.



https://airgunwarriors.com/airgun-talk/crosman-premier-quality-drop-off-question/#post-28211

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/am-i-expecting-too-much-from-crosman-pellets/
https://airgunwarriors.com/airgun-talk/a-crosman-premier-heavy-question-177-caliber/#post-18069

And unfortunately it’s not just the pellets from the tins. It has also affected their once-vaunted boxed pellets. These are supposed to be precision pellets from a single die, yet they seldom perform as well as the pellets from the tins just a few years ago. That was my experience in 2014 with the boxed heavies and again recently in Nov/Dec 2018 with both the heavies and lights.



https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59397

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=150013



Another question that comes to mind is how many people do we see these days engaged in competitions with Crosman pellets? To be fair, this is not a question relevant to Crosman’s strategy because I suspect they aren’t too concerned with this little sliver of business they are missing out on, but it does speak to the mediocrity in which their pellets have been mired for years. And it begs the question, why would I want to use such pellets as the gold standard to evaluate a good barrel? Bizarre.



With that said, fortunately a good barrel is a good barrel so perhaps there is no consequence to approaching it this way. At least I hope not because I genuinely would like to see the quality improve for both their barrels and their pellets. Better for our hobby. Better for their business.
 
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Guys,

Here's some of the answers I have.

The .25 caliber barrels have, in fact been made in house since the beginning of 2018.

All Crosman rifle barrels are choked.

Tom Holland 

Field Target Tech
Click to expand...

I consider going away from the GM 25 cal barrel, a bad thing. But, it does explain the difference in the one I purchased in Jan 2019, for my 25 cal Fortitude project. I found that the barrels choke was much tighter than the other two GM barrels I had. The choke re-sized the 25g JSB head diameter. For that project, I swapped in one of the other 25 cal barrels. I did do some accuracy testing at 10 and 50 yds and seemed OK with those JSB 25g pellets slamming the choke, but had lost 60fps. 

Tom, I assume you meant all Mrod rifle barrels are choked. The last I knew, the Disco, maximus, and Fortitude were unchoked. 


 
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