Benefits of electronics in air rifles?

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Cliff_Allen

Member
Jul 14, 2015
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maine, United States
Hello AGN!

I'm hoping to get some opinions / feedback about electronic guns. Being very candid, electronics on a gun have never appealed to me. That being said, I'm really trying see things from the other side of the fence. I'll list some items below that I would consider turn offs with electronics but I'm keeping a very open mind and would like to hear you try to talk me into it.

Here are my "negatives". Please feel free to try to turn them into positives. Like I said, I'm keeping an open mind and appreciate constructive opinions. 


1.) Electronics are unnecessary? ---- What are the performance benefits coming from the electronics?


2.) Added cost? ---- I see most of the Daystate guns that offer electronics are easily in the upper echelon of pricing. What are the benefits that counter the added cost?


3.) I need batteries? ---- The electronics are arguably reliable, (even mechanical guns have failures) but do I really want to carry extra batteries everywhere? Even if you get the reported 4000 shots between battery changes, it still seems like it's "just one more thing" to have to pay attention to. 

4.) Also, wouldn't this reliance on batteries preclude the gun from being considered as a "survival tool"? (I'm not a survivalist myself, just saying, lot's of people are, it may be a consideration for some)

5.) Computer mouse click trigger ---- I'd love to try one, and I've never heard any complaints, but the match triggers on all the high end guns I've tried have never left me wanting for anything more. Any benefits to the mouse click trigger?

6.) Electronic regulation ---- Below are two screen shots from Steve at AEAC. At first glance the Crown shot curve seems flatter but on closer inspection they both appear to have about a 20 FPS extreme spread. I'd call it a tie but Steve indicates the mechanical regulator results are "pre break in" indicating results may improve? I'm open to hear opinions.
Steve's results from electronic regulated gun:



.
.
Results from mechanical regulated gun:




Anyway, that's all. Electronics have always been such a "no" for me that it seems a foreign concept that someone would go that way by choice and I'm just trying to see things from that point of view to try to understand the appeal better. 

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

 
I'll give it a shot.

1) Efficiency. Electronic regulated guns are super efficient with air. I'm talking 500 count tin of pellets on a fill efficient. No other rifle I've ever shot comes close.
2) See #1, #5, #6
3) You don't carry batteries with you. The battery stays in the gun and is charged much like your cell phone. Unlike your phone, plugging it in once a month overnight keeps it ready to go.
4) You got me here. Not a gun for preppers.
5) The electonic trigger is my favorite. My father owns a RAW TM1000 that has the second best trigger I've shot. The electronic trigger is ideal for target shooting. I don't know what the pull weight is, but it is very slight.
6) It isn't an apples to apples comparison, because my electronic Daystate has the Helliboard upgraded electronics board so that I can custom build my power settings. This allows the user to fine tune the hammer strike as the reservoir pressure decreases to flatten out the shot curve at 12 distinct power settings that the user chooses. I find it fun to tinker with. I get lower standard deviations than with my regular regulated guns, but it took quite a bit of work that I thoroughly enjoyed. I don't think the guns with the stock electronics board allow this, though.
 
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I think it originally started because Daystate didn’t want to add a regulator to their guns and the electronics were a way to get the same result while being different.

It also enables a bullpup design without complicated linkages from the trigger because it’s just a wire. So in theory it could be more reliable in that respect.

It also allows for some other “fluff” but fun features like magazine shot count, digital presssure gauge, and easy switching between power levels. Rumor is that in the future they may start selling the computer tool custom program your power curve.

I can understand the prepper argument to a degree but isn’t stockpiling batteries no different than stockpiling ammo? Eventually the bullets will run out when the factories shut down. You could go for years with a good supply of AA’s or even a generator plus recharging batts.
 
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I shot a daystate years ago at AoA. It was amazingly smooth and accurate..The technolgy behind it makes complete sense and the control is much better than any mechanical system that relies on springs. IMO.. 
however, for me.. I don't want a rifle that relies on a battery.. plus the repair costs IF a "board" goes out.. been there done that with cars.
Daystate is a fine, beautiful work of engineering and extremely accurate. Maybe the Bentley of air rifles? 
 
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I bought a mk4 that was going cheap a while. Back just to see what all the hype was about it soon became my fav gun it's not more accurate than my other guns but there's some thing about the electronic Guns that you can't just put down to facts and figures they are so smooth to use I get a grin on my face when I shoot my air wolf or mk4 I just don't get from my normal mechanical Guns .my advice borrow an electronic gun for a week and shoot at least 1000 shots then you will understand why so many people buy them just my 2 cent worth 
 
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I don't how many activations a mechanical trigger is rated for but micro switches typically work for many millions or billions of activations. During their life time they are reliable and consistent, and if you need to change them the replacement is identical other than possible wear for the little travel the switch has. Steyr Challenge E also uses an electronic trigger, btw, so it's not just that Daystate being different.

With the Impact & Crown, I believe you have 3 settings. If you change one of the settings while the gun is pressurized you ruin the regulator. To me that is a design flaw. Daystate is not there yet, but it would be cool if you should just select your pellet and the gun is changes those 3 or whatever settings to make it happen.

I find Steve's graphs hard to compare because the 3d perspective obscures the data. It looks like the Crown has a higher extreme spread, so then you will say you tweak what pressure ranges to shoot at to only get the good parts. I can't easily eyeball that comparison. The other thing to keep in mind is how to translate the test into your usage? For instance, is the 1st shot always 10 fps slower than the 16th or was spike a fluke in this shot string? The only thing that matters to me, when pesting, is that the first shot hits its target. If the shot shot curve is consistent, you could tweak for that in electronics. I don't know how the Daystate guns work, but my impression is that they rely on measurements (x pressure in the bottle etc).

Almost all tests are of new guns, naturally no one sponsors secondary market, so if you drop $2k or $3k on a high-end airgun, how does it do with time in terms of maintenance and accuracy. It's really hard to get data on this as you only get a data point here and there.

Jared at AOA did a test of the Pulsar HP and said it was the best shot string he ever had <
Jared is a good marksman. AOA is in business of selling guns, of course, so I don't know if there are any biases at work.
 
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"allan_wind"I don't how many activations a mechanical trigger is rated for but micro switches typically work for many millions or billions of activations. During their life time they are reliable and consistent, and if you need to change them the replacement is identical other than possible wear for the little travel the switch has. Steyr Challenge E also uses an electronic trigger, btw, so it's not just that Daystate being different.

With the Impact & Crown, I believe you have 3 settings. If you change one of the settings while the gun is pressurized you ruin the regulator. To me that is a design flaw. Daystate is not there yet, but it would be cool if you should just select your pellet and the gun is changes those 3 or whatever settings to make it happen.
I find Steve's graphs hard to compare because the 3d perspective obscures the data. It looks like the Crown has a higher extreme spread, so then you will say you tweak what pressure ranges to shoot at to only get the good parts. I can't easily eyeball that comparison. The other thing to keep in mind is how to translate the test into your usage? For instance, is the 1st shot always 10 fps slower than the 16th or was spike a fluke in this shot string? The only thing that matters to me, when pesting, is that the first shot hits its target. If the shot shot curve is consistent, you could tweak for that in electronics. I don't know how the Daystate guns work, but my impression is that they rely on measurements (x pressure in the bottle etc).
Almost all tests are of new guns, naturally no one sponsors secondary market, so if you drop $2k or $3k on a high-end airgun, how does it do with time in terms of maintenance and accuracy. It's really hard to get data on this as you only get a data point here and there.
Jared at AOA did a test of the Pulsar HP and said it was the best shot string he ever had <
Jared is a good marksman. AOA is in business of selling guns, of course, so I don't know if there are any biases at work.
Click to expand...
Fantastic. Now I want a Pulsar lol. 

Seriously, thank you for the video, I always just skipped over these due to lack of interest but that gun has a lot going for it. Pretty awesome!!
 
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About Impact & Crown.I agree that if change one of the settings while the gun is pressurized you ruin the regulator. Although process between 3 part is very complicated ，but he result is constant。and we just need this result.
Everything is set there may be some advantages 。It's like DC for photography，can be simplify the process of operation.But it's lost infinite possibilities caused by continuous regulation.It's like DSLR for photography.


So I think electronics pcp is valuable for part of airguners。but not better ,just difference.
Click to expand...
 
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I’m keeping a very open mind too. Everything in the world, if it had an irreplaceable advantage, I don't care what structure it is. But I still think, electronics will not benefit air rifles.

Daystate Pulsar is a very excellent product. It is not logical to conclude that electronics is better than mechanics.

1. Some airguners said using electronics would have more shots. It is wrong. Where does the excess energy come? Indeed electronics pcp can shot more than parts of others. The truth is these pcp's vale being knocked on many times in once shot. The air is wasted. As long as we solve this problem, the number of shots is the same. I have tested already.

2. A long term, electronics pcp will not lead to an increase in cost. In the beginning, it costs a lot. When the output is huge, the cost of electronic products will be lower and lower. This electronic module is easier to be developed new products by the manufacturer.

3. Don't worry about the battery. Battery technology is very mature. Just have a little bit of experience, between LED display and the air gauge is the same.

4. I totally agree with you. Less depending is very import to weapons.

5. Computer mouse click trigger is special, but not better than mechanics. They are just different.

6. Making flat shot curve is all about perfect machining, structure and adjustment. It is not about the electronics. I used to adjust a mechanical pcp from 210bar to 130bar, extreme spread is 17fps without reg. With reg,it will be about 10fps.

It will be 10fps.It is worthy to own a Pulsar, because it is an excellent product, not because of using electronics.
 
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Programmed valve timing based on cylinder pressure is Brilliant. Allowing for different programming based on the pellet/bullet (bullet profiles?) being shot is Awesome. $2,500 for an airgun that requires an aftermarket board $$ to provide basic programmable functionality, Ouch! It's a shame Crosman hasn't pursued this direction further.
 
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That group looks familiar, I'm surprised that's the best group he's ever shot. This is 50m at the range a week or so ago and not right up against a wall to block wind.

1522809415_2156638265ac43a47c98b15.96383416_20180321_104157.jpg
1522809429_10878300415ac43a551875d0.57885364_20180321_104202.jpg
 
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I was never a fan of any gun with electronics in them, starting with the Benjamin Rogue. I've shot every electronic high end gun known to man, and yes, they do shoot sweet. There is nothing to dream about after you shoot one with an electronic trigger. Those are the good points.
Ennice, NC a few years back hosted the AAFTA FT Nationals. The first day of a light steady rain, showed several electronic guns go the route of failure in some manner. One stopped working completely, another's screen went blank, and one was doing erratic things to the point it was useless. These were all touted as waterproof FT specific guns. That made my mind up right there, that I will never own an electronic gun.
 
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