Be careful - forum is targeted by dishonest low-lifes

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I've been working on something that is very time consuming and costly, but it should help us identify and block more scammers.

Lots of people are going through desperate times right now. We've all seen or heard accounts of people rioting, looting, and stealing. Online classified are no exception.

Most scammers operate via DM (Direct Message) only. But obviously some of them are getting brave and posting publicly. Here are a few tips that may help you avoid them:

  • Visit the buyer/seller Profile to view the number of public posts they've made. Review their posts to determine whether their content is legitimate or just fluff.
  • View their Accuracy score. If they've been a helpful part of the community they will likely have a few (+) scores.
  • Search the Known Scammers List.
  • Search the Member Feedback section for their username. If the buyer/seller has not yet established a reputation on AGN, then we suggest you cautiously consider alternative sources such as: other forums, Amazon, Ebay, etc.
  • Ask the seller to provide a picture of their drivers license.
  • Ask the seller to provide a picture of themselves with the item they have for sale and a handwritten note that says "For Sale on AGN with the date".
  • Talk to the buyer/seller on the phone.  If the buyer/seller only wishes to deal via email, refuses to provide personal information, refuses to talk on the phone, refuses to share unique pictures, etc. then you should heed the signs.
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Michael, While I agree with most of what you write above, I am not sure that I would be prepared to send a photo of my Drivers License to someone that I don’t know, simply because he/she is worried about buying from me. That would expose me to a much bigger risk than a few hundred dollars on an airgun purchase. In fact I can say for sure that I would not send a picture of my DL to anyone on the internet. I have no idea what would subsequently become of that!

I have never sold anything on AGN (bought quite a bit though), but if the potential cost (identity theft, or other impersonation scams) was what it required, then I doubt I would ever do it.

Other than that, I am fine with your suggestions.
 
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Super useful info, what ChRiSiS and Michael are proposing sounds like a very good measure to minimize fraud in classifieds. I believe that any honest seller/buyer would comply with the proposed steps to sell/buy products offered.

From other forums, at minimum, picture/date and signature are required to post any product for sale.

Thanks again for working on this!

Cheers.
 
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I'm going to agree on the ID - that's PII in the US. If you get into the EU with GDPR it's even more strict. Let's not do something that ends up getting AGN sued.

Not going to happen, never, ever. I'll facetime with you, I'll talk on the phone, text , email. But you'll never get a pic of my ID unless you have a SOX compliant PII policy in place. And between me, buyer/seller, and the PM system that ain't gonna happen.
 
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I agree with the no id pic. That's a little too personal and can put someone at risk of identity theft. Phone call is nice, and appreciated. Ive done tge phone call before and it works.



Covering the id thing.. Not saying that members will do that on here.. but if somehow the copy of the id falls into the wrong hands it can create a long battle of credit issues or legal issues. 

A piece of paper with your screen name and date in the pic would be a nice to prove that the item for sale is in your possession. Of course some members have been here a lomg time so maybe they wouldn't need to do this as their feedback grows. 

Unless your a pro at photoshop it would be a hassle to create this out of several images with the item for sale, so it would minimize scammers stealing pics from Google. 

This should be mandatory at the minimum requirement for posting in the classified section for members less than 6 months. 




 
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I just completed a successful buy on the risky site mentioned above that had all the smell of scam. 

1. The price was extraordinarily low for the item.

2. No pictures were attached to the initial offer.

3. Only accepted Money Orders.

🙄 3 strikes you're out, right? (+ on AA Classifieds) GT..OH!!

4. No previous posts or feedback on any site.

😱🤣 You gotta be kidding me!

However, I decided to contact him. I wanted to play the game and run him thru the drills.. I asked where he got the pcp, what mods were made, what pellet shot best, what scope he used, fpe, .... and finally I asked for specific pics including a selfie with the pcp and his phone number so we could talk thru the transaction.. Surprisingly, I got everything I requested inclding some blurry pics. That's when I realized he was another old fart, like me, with a bad Senior Citizen camera phone and didn't want to mess around with these new-fangled PP app thingies.

Talked it over with @Crank and he gave me a lil more insight and analysis as this was my first Money Order transaction. As Crank said, "It's just money, right?". ("Remind me to murder you later", in my best Three Stooges voice)

Luckily, he wanted a USPS MO and we decided to work the delivery of the MO and shipping through a 3rd party verified business. It all worked out well. However, it started waaay proud of my risk tolerance.
 
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Crosfire,

That is an anecdote to keep in mind. It is too bad we have to be on such guard that honest folks have a harder time.

I'm come close to being burned on this another, different type of firearm forum. I won't go into details.

While I appreciate Michael's tips in this thread, it is a double-edged sword. When we provide these tips we are also educating the scammers so they can improve their scam the next time. Catch 22 I know.

My most effective vetting strategy is to check the other persons posts. I go to em and read em. I make my decision based on that information. The handling of the item and the payment must be very straight forward and simple or the red flags go flying. 
 
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Scammers being scammy reminds me of the "plagiarism paradox" which goes something like this:

In order to successfully plagiarize a paper (i.e., fool a very well educated professor), a student would have to be quite intelligent and hardworking in order to pull it off. Students who are intelligent and hardworking generally have no need or desire to plagiarize. On the other hand, students who choose to plagiarize often do so because they lack the mental fortitude to grasp the course work, tend to be quite lazy, or often both. Here, almost by default, if you choose to plagiarize, it also means that you likely can't pull it off and will be caught.

Same deal with scammers. They have to run scams in order to make money because they are both stupid and lazy.

Don't let a person that is stupid and lazy fool you. It's just way too easy to uncover their scam.
 
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I skipped over all the post, Its not this site,, I think its guns of any type,, I have dealt in motorcycle parts for many years and NEVER even come close to being ripped off, I have sent parts to people strangers and said try it out if you like pay me or send it back.. 

But times are changing, I come from a time and place were your word was something, There was no ripping off and stealing,

I think its guns that dishonest people are drawn to....

Mike


 
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I suppose asking for their DL might be a bit much, any other suggestions on how to mitigate the problem?
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You could charge a nominal fee to post in the classifieds. That fee could go to support the running of the site. I'd be okay paying a small fee to support the site to give the rights to post in the classifieds. It would definitely discourage the bad actors.

But - has this really become such a problem here? I mean this is the first thread I'm reading about a huge ripoff going on here. I read about a bad transaction here or there, but nothing on the scale this thread implies. 
 
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You could charge a nominal fee to post in the classifieds.....
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Boooooooooooo.
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I hear ya, but consider the other options. An intermediary doubles shipping cost and will take a % fee. No one will take on the escrow responsibility for free - I wouldn't.

I believe the most effective, yet still simple to implement, is post count + a waiting period. It's simply a matter of becoming part of the community and building trust. Use eBay for a quick sale or buy otherwise. 
 
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You could charge a nominal fee to post in the classifieds.....
Click to expand...

Boooooooooooo.
Click to expand...

I hear ya, but consider the other options. An intermediary doubles shipping cost and will take a % fee. No one will take on the escrow responsibility for free - I wouldn't.

I believe the most effective, yet still simple to implement, is post count + a waiting period. It's simply a matter of becoming part of the community and building trust. Use eBay for a quick sale or buy otherwise.
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I am definitely not in favor of a posting fee. However a waiting period and post count both seem reasonable. i also think that having a look at the actual posts makes sense, as someone suggested earlier. I think you can tell a lot about people based on what they have said. I also feel that contacting them via text or a phone call can also give you a feel for the person you are dealing with.

I don’t know how much of a problem this is, but clearly there is always some risk involved in sending money to a stranger just based on an ad in a forum. For myself, I have made a number of purchases (3 scopes, 1 .30 Cal kit for an Impact and 1 FX Dreamline) since discovering and joining AGN in April. So far everyone I have dealt with has been straightforward (well almost everyone - one guy was not exactly computer savvy and didn’t know how to access his PayPal account) and all, without exception, were honest, quick shippers whose products completely matched their descriptions. I haven’t sold anything, since I am much more of an accumulation expert as opposed to a disposal ninja 😂, but I may put up a couple of Marauders. Hopefully I can live up to the standard of the guys I purchased things from.

Chris
 
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So far, for fifteen years (or longer) swapping my hobby's, trading archery stuff, trade across the border Canada-US-Eu, I box and mail my stuff he sends he's thingies, I have a positive attitude to make the WTS/WTB/WTT work in best possible way, and I had only good experience.

Paypal and ebay since 2000, aliexpress 2013 and amazon about 2015. 

My older son how he got he's first credit card on very first purchase got scammed, he didn't even worked yet at that time, mamma helped him out calling the banks to track down the foker.

There is always a first time, not sure when that one will nail me, but a good communication shall give you a sense what you are facing with.
 
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Well said.

As a consumer I will say always pay with PayPal and do not use Friend and Family if you don't know the seller, assume the fee because PayPal will have you covered...and the scammer will probably lose the PayPal account.
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As already stated, don't rely on PayPal to pull you out of bad deal. Their reporting method sux and is very limited. I filed a fraud complaint but was limited to how I could report it due to the lack of flexibility in the reporting protocol. I ended getting denied a case. So now, I am going to my credit card, hopefully they will honor my case.
 
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Yes...scamming absolutely sucks, not only the practice of it, being the victim of it is even worse....BUT...guys there are still GOOD people out there!...short story...a few years back (4?), I wanted to purchase a certain rifle from the site mentioned above..(it used to be a really comfortable place), anyway, made contact, first email, then phone... the gent did not have PP, and just said send him a check or money order, I believe that I was traveling at the time, and would send it and be prepared to wait for it to clear, then wait on shipping..etc etc...Nope......he asked for my address, and SHIPPED IT (and quickly I might add)....He stated something about being a strong believer in humanity.....I never wanted to Pay someone so quickly for something in my life!...(as to NOT destroy that faith in humanity)! Anyway, I'm usually on the "buying" end of transactions, but I do occasionally sell stuff, and I'm one of those that will go the EXTRA mile to show you...Facetime? Hellz yeah I'll put my ugly mug on your phone screen,and show you the product, and talk about the hobby...If you're close enough, I'll deliver it and buy you a beer (time allowing).... :)



DJ
 
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