Baffles vs felt for LDC?

Which is more quiet? LDC with baffles inside or just a hollow tube with felt wrap inside? I notice Donny's LDC doesn't have any baffle. Just a hollow tube with felt wrap around a plastic tubing and just stuff that inside the hollow LDC and end cap. Why doesn't he use any baffles? All LDC I have used does not have any felt, just baffles inside. Is one better than the other?
 
If you’re going to build one on the sound absorbing “felt” use the white Mr. Clean magic erasers. Those pads have microscopic pores. I know sound. I worked in C. F. Martin & Co. sound testing room occasionally. 

I’ve received tuned Evanix with a combination of a blast baffle, shrouded, and curlers with what looks like green emery cloth. Works well.

Though I personally prefer baffles & a shroud if I built one it would incorporate the magic erasers.
 
It is actually a common misconception that Donnys don't have baffles. They absolutely DO have baffles, they're just built into the monocore. A baffle is just a choke point for flow, typically a hole not much larger in diameter than the pellet itself. Huggets use carefully machined aluminum washers basically. Donnys just integrate it all into one structure for ease of assembly and (presumably) so that it can maintain good concentricity with the pellet path while being machined to lower tolerances. It is a fairly clever solution to make manufacturing easier, and performs about the same as its more traditional counterparts. 



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So I highlighted above in red where the baffles are in a Donny. I hope that helps show/explain it. If you could pick one up and examine it in person, you'd clearly see how/why those act as baffles. 





Regarding your question of felt/foam vs. baffles, this thread is a VERY long read, however I had precisely the same question and so attempted to answer it myself:
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/fx-crown-bespoke-moderator-tesla-gas-diode/

My conclusion, if you want just the short answer to that question, is that a combination of optimized baffles and felt/foam provides the best sound attenuation. And that it is not necessarily a universal answer. Your balance of flow-delaying (baffles) vs. sound absorbing (felt/foam) for optimal performance can and will vary depending on your specific application. Notice, for example, in the above thread on page 5 that the Sumo performed noticeably worse than the Tanto on my FX Crown. Why? The answer, I suspect, is that the Sumo's architecture simply is not as good at sound absorbing on already somewhat quiet guns. Presumably though on a larger and more powerful gun which outputs a lot more air volume a lot more violently, it will be even louder than in my tests, but will be RELATIVELY quieter compared to the Tanto which has a lot less volume to use to eat aggressive flow but because of its smaller exit OD and closer felt to the bore path is more able to absorb sound. 

I realize I'm pretending in the above paragraph that sound and flow are completely separate things, which is not strictly speaking the case, but I hope it illustrates the point I'm getting at to some extent. 



Please be aware that there is a lot to know on this subject, the answers are not simple, and largely we as a community flat out don't have the answers anyway. I don't know if someone has figured out everything there is to know about airgun silencers and is hoarding the knowledge, but as best I can tell nobody who is manufacturing airgun moderators has. If they did, they wouldn't all be basically identical designs with roughly equivalent performance and no explanation for their appropriate application. :p 

I hope that helps answer your question, at least to some extent. :)
 
Tight clearance baffles that trap and slow air until the projectile has left totally dominate in perceived sound.

I love DonnyFl's customer service but I sold my Ronnin after testing the FX OEM moderator with two 75mm center sections and seven tight baffles on my 100+ fpe 30 Impact.

The 7 3/4" x 1 3/8" aluminum tube with seven baffles produces about half the sound of the Ronin and makes the hot .30 sound like a .22

In fairness though, I don't think any manufacturer could sell moderators with very tight clearance to the general public without having problems.
 
Just want to add that Donny's moderators Do NOT employ any sort of "plastic". Top notch machined components only.

Mike.

The Donnys I took apart used masking tape to hold the felt and steel mesh to keep them on the core, the Sumo used rubber o-rings at the ends, and the felt itself is a synthetic which based on the burn and sniff test I'm guessing is nylon. (which is a common plastic, just spun out into fibers and felted) None of those are "machined" components, in the conventional sense of the word. 

My point? Plastics, rubbers, and other polymers form critical and integral components of Donny's designs, and virtually every other moderator design I can think of. That doesn't make them not quality, they're very nicely made, however there is absolutely nothing wrong with leveraging them in moderators. In fact, in my entire test, I can't think of a single moderator which definitively doesn't use a polymeric material of some sort somewhere nor airgun itself for that matter. ;) 

I hope that makes sense. :) 



In fairness though, I don't think any manufacturer could sell moderators with very tight clearance to the general public without having problems.

This is a key point. While some baffle designs lean on tight pellet clearances to generate their performance more than others, largely tighter will improve performance..... but is also more subject to POI shifts and ultimately concentricity of the system. I suspect moderator companies would get a lot more bad press from accuracy/clipping issues than they'd gain sales from the minor sound attenuation benefits. 
 
Just want to add that Donny's moderators Do NOT employ any sort of "plastic". Top notch machined components only.

Mike.

The Donnys I took apart used masking tape to hold the felt and steel mesh to keep them on the core, the Sumo used rubber o-rings at the ends, and the felt itself is a synthetic which based on the burn and sniff test I'm guessing is nylon. (which is a common plastic, just spun out into fibers and felted) None of those are "machined" components, in the conventional sense of the word. 

My point? Plastics, rubbers, and other polymers form critical and integral components of Donny's designs, and virtually every other moderator design I can think of. That doesn't make them not quality, they're very nicely made, however there is absolutely nothing wrong with leveraging them in moderators. In fact, in my entire test, I can't think of a single moderator which definitively doesn't use a polymeric material of some sort somewhere nor airgun itself for that matter. ;) 

I hope that makes sense. :) 



In fairness though, I don't think any manufacturer could sell moderators with very tight clearance to the general public without having problems.

This is a key point. While some baffle designs lean on tight pellet clearances to generate their performance more than others, largely tighter will improve performance..... but is also more subject to POI shifts and ultimately concentricity of the system. I suspect moderator companies would get a lot more bad press from accuracy/clipping issues than they'd gain sales from the minor sound attenuation benefits.

Gotcha. The component I was primarily referring to was the actual core. I was recently laid off from my job as a "Felt/Screen and o'ring" machinist. Got a lead on a new gig at the "Disposable Camera Repair Facility." sooo, things are lookin up! LOL!
 
In fairness though, I don't think any manufacturer could sell moderators with very tight clearance to the general public without having problems.

This is a key point. While some baffle designs lean on tight pellet clearances to generate their performance more than others, largely tighter will improve performance..... but is also more subject to POI shifts and ultimately concentricity of the system. I suspect moderator companies would get a lot more bad press from accuracy/clipping issues than they'd gain sales from the minor sound attenuation benefits.

It's a lot more than "minor" in fact the difference in sound is like night and day. I've had zero clipping or POI shift but I understand manufacturers fear of liability in today's twisted and morally bankrupt society.
 
Just want to add that Donny's moderators Do NOT employ any sort of "plastic". Top notch machined components only.

Mike.

The Donnys I took apart used masking tape to hold the felt and steel mesh to keep them on the core, the Sumo used rubber o-rings at the ends, and the felt itself is a synthetic which based on the burn and sniff test I'm guessing is nylon. (which is a common plastic, just spun out into fibers and felted) None of those are "machined" components, in the conventional sense of the word. 

My point? Plastics, rubbers, and other polymers form critical and integral components of Donny's designs, and virtually every other moderator design I can think of. That doesn't make them not quality, they're very nicely made, however there is absolutely nothing wrong with leveraging them in moderators. In fact, in my entire test, I can't think of a single moderator which definitively doesn't use a polymeric material of some sort somewhere nor airgun itself for that matter. ;) 

I hope that makes sense. :) 



In fairness though, I don't think any manufacturer could sell moderators with very tight clearance to the general public without having problems.

This is a key point. While some baffle designs lean on tight pellet clearances to generate their performance more than others, largely tighter will improve performance..... but is also more subject to POI shifts and ultimately concentricity of the system. I suspect moderator companies would get a lot more bad press from accuracy/clipping issues than they'd gain sales from the minor sound attenuation benefits.

Gotcha. The component I was primarily referring to was the actual core. I was recently laid off from my job as a "Felt/Screen and o'ring" machinist. Got a lead on a new gig at the "Disposable Camera Repair Facility." sooo, things are lookin up! LOL!

I realize you were being humorous, but Donny's felt appears to be cut on a CNC laser. Likewise o-rings are a relatively recent invention and some are indeed machined. Both are almost certainly manufactured using CNC automation. o-rings in fact are an under-appreciated miracle of our time. Did you know you can get seamless PTFE encapsulated silicone o-rings? We truly live in days of miracle and wonder. :D I digress. 
 
. I was recently laid off from my job as a "Felt/Screen and o'ring" machinist. Got a lead on a new gig at the "Disposable Camera Repair Facility." sooo, things are lookin up! LOL!

You could start a youtube channel about your funny looking cat "Stanky"... I'd watch.

LMAO!

...Stanky sends his regards

Mike..
 
I used to make airgun suppressors for my own use and one thing that I found that worked really well was to use very dense material with several chambers. Usually 2 or 3 Each chamber was then wrapped with Fiberglass. only drawmack was that the weight was a bit much. I was thinking about wrapping my Lelya and Leshiy cores with fiberglass to some degree to see if it will help any. I do not want to add any length to them because the reason I got them was due to being compact. I may have to figure something out because the cores fit in a way leaving no room for a wrapping of any sorts. 
 
Tight clearance baffles that trap and slow air until the projectile has left totally dominate in perceived sound.

I love DonnyFl's customer service but I sold my Ronnin after testing the FX OEM moderator with two 75mm center sections and seven tight baffles on my 100+ fpe 30 Impact.

The 7 3/4" x 1 3/8" aluminum tube with seven baffles produces about half the sound of the Ronin and makes the hot .30 sound like a .22

In fairness though, I don't think any manufacturer could sell moderators with very tight clearance to the general public without having problems.

I can attest to this design, as I have one on my Wildcat 30 cal. Way quieter than the Shogun on my 30 cal Bully, with speeds only 25 FPS apart difference, using the same 44.75 grain pellet.



Thanks again, Heavy Impact.