Artemis pp700sa Pistol Review

Forums PCP Airguns Artemis pp700sa Pistol Review

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    Swish
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    Man, you guys are making me miss my old PP700. Such a pleasure to carry around and has to be one of the best deals in pcp's. If any of you guys see her around, tell her I think about her all the time. . . . 😩

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    nervoustrig
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    Yes, I've seen all the things you're describing.  The issue is there is a white plastic disc inside the regulator, and it relies on a crush seal to prevent the regulator from leaking.  You can see it in this picture:

    It's pretty difficult to develop enough torque to get it to seal completely but by adding an O-ring where shown (included in the spare O-ring kit), you can prevent it from leaking to the outside world.  This is a popular fix that was uncovered pretty quickly.

    Be advised however that we have since become aware of another related issue.  The air that would have otherwise been leaking out is now potentially migrating around the disc…in other words from the high pressure reservoir over to the output side of the regulator.  Yep, you guess it.  Creep.  Hello darkness, my old friend.

    To fix it, you can try to torque the daylights out of the assembly.  It laughed at my spanner wrench so I whipped up a tool to do it but still couldn't get it to seal properly.  More recently, GTA member Hobbyman2007 suggested gluing the disc to the reg body with Superglue.

    I went about it in a pretty detailed, methodical way and I'm pleased to say mine is now working beautifully.  No leaking, and I can put it away for a week and the first shot is spot on. 

    If you're interested, I drafted a detailed breakdown in Hobbyman's post here 
    https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=150303.msg155687489#msg155687489

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    nervoustrig
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    By the way, I just want to comment it's been a long road to get mine where I want it but here are some examples of why I now enjoy it.

    Validating no regulator creep…this is after it was stored for a few days:

    Some groups at 25 yards:

    And lobbing a few at spinners at 43 yards…not bad for wadcutters leaving the barrel at 560fps:

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    steve-l
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    nervoustrig

    Yes, I've seen all the things you're describing.  The issue is there is a white plastic disc inside the regulator, and it relies on a crush seal to prevent the regulator from leaking.  You can see it in this picture:

    It's pretty difficult to develop enough torque to get it to seal completely but by adding an O-ring where shown (included in the spare O-ring kit), you can prevent it from leaking to the outside world.  This is a popular fix that was uncovered pretty quickly.

    Be advised however that we have since become aware of another related issue.  The air that would have otherwise been leaking out is now potentially migrating around the disc…in other words from the high pressure reservoir over to the output side of the regulator.  Yep, you guess it.  Creep.  Hello darkness, my old friend.

    To fix it, you can try to torque the daylights out of the assembly.  It laughed at my spanner wrench so I whipped up a tool to do it but still couldn't get it to seal properly.  More recently, GTA member Hobbyman2007 suggested gluing the disc to the reg body with Superglue.

    I went about it in a pretty detailed, methodical way and I'm pleased to say mine is now working beautifully.  No leaking, and I can put it away for a week and the first shot is spot on. 

    If you're interested, I drafted a detailed breakdown in Hobbyman's post here 
    https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=150303.msg155687489#msg155687489

    Thank you. I am very happy that I am not the only person with this issue. Your explanation is very clear and your URL pointer further defines the issue. It is now very clear to me that it is a design issue. It may very well be a solution to add a Huma regulator, which I understand is available. The only problem with this possible solution is that the auxiliary regulator occupies valuable tank volume which will effect the amount of available shots. I hate to rain on your parade here, but gluing anything to plastic is problematic because no adhesive really works well.  The solution in my mind involves a redesign with different materials. In this light, I am fortunate because I have a machine shop behind my kitchen. I have to say that this regulator issue is a real shame. This gun has superb balance, power, feel and accuracy as well as its unbelievable price point. it deserves a little solution engineering. I will do my part!

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    nervoustrig
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    Yeah, definitely a design weakness.  It would be pretty easily remedied if they simply included a groove under the plastic disc to accommodate an O-ring.  One with a lathe and the know-how could make that modification.

    If I weren't so hard headed I would have bought the Huma reg a while back.  It just irks me to spend such a substantial fraction of the gun's cost to fix it.

    Regarding the superglue, yes frankly I expected it to fail straight away but I have shot the hell out of it the last 6-7 weeks so I think it's going to be fine.  I torqued the assembly as tightly as I could so the glue isn't really bearing any axial tension, it's simply filling microscopic gaps that would otherwise allow air to seep through.  An adhesive that sees only a shear load can work okay even when it doesn't bond to the materials particularly well.

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    steve-l
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    nervoustrig

    Yeah, definitely a design weakness.  It would be pretty easily remedied if they simply included a groove under the plastic disc to accommodate an O-ring.  One with a lathe and the know-how could make that modification.

    If I weren't so hard headed I would have bought the Huma reg a while back.  It just irks me to spend such a substantial fraction of the gun's cost to fix it.

    Regarding the superglue, yes frankly I expected it to fail straight away but I have shot the hell out of it the last 6-7 weeks so I think it's going to be fine.  I torqued the assembly as tightly as I could so the glue isn't really bearing any axial tension, it's simply filling microscopic gaps that would otherwise allow air to seep through.  An adhesive that sees only a shear load can work okay even when it doesn't bond to the materials particularly well.

    I am a bit confused here. Just what are you torqueing? Is it the fillister head screw or perhaps the tank tube? I have not had my gun apart yet and have not located a parts break down to view either.

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    nervoustrig
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    Referring to torquing part #30 to #26.  To do so, you need a spanner wrench (pins) to stab into the holes around its perimeter.

    The white disc is part #28.  Ideally if the parts are squeezed tightly enough, a seal will be formed on both sides of this disc.

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    John_in_Ma
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    Member

    you cam make your own spanner wrench with a piece of flat stock and a couple drill bits. Find the shank size that fits the wholes in your part, drill two holes in your flat stock the proper distance apart the slide your drill bits through shank side to the nut and wrench away.

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    nervoustrig
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    Member

    Yeah the key is making sure the pins are well supported.  The holes are only about 2mm diameter so we're talking pretty small pins that need to develop quite a bit of torque.  Here's the simple tool that I knocked out of a piece of scrap wood.

    The hole in the middle allows it to slip over the regulator's stem.  The pins therefore have no opportunity to bend, they would essentially have to shear off.

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    steve-l
    Participant
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    nervoustrig

    Referring to torquing part #30 to #26.  To do so, you need a spanner wrench (pins) to stab into the holes around its perimeter.

    The white disc is part #28.  Ideally if the parts are squeezed tightly enough, a seal will be formed on both sides of this disc.

    Thank you. That is a lot of help. I really would like to get a copy of that parts break down. Can you tell me where to find it or can you send a copy to my email address? It appears that I have two problems. The first is that I am unable to fill the tank to its pressure capacity, as it starts leaking before that pressure is reached. Just what "O" ring do you think is the cause? The second issue is the creep. I get that you feel the cause is the white disc.

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    nervoustrig
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    I don’t recall where I got the diagram.  PM me your email and I’ll send it. 

    Regarding leaks, I’ve had 3.  

    The first was the fill port O-ring.  

    Next was the regulator…if either side of the white disc does not form a crush seal, it leaks out of the threads between the two parts mentioned in the diagram.

    The last place it leaked was from the brass regulator piston.  

    The OEM O-rings are suspect…they are soft and they also swell when in use.  My advice is replace each one you can as part of any disassembly with a Buna-N 70 or 90 durometer. 

    Any that you need to reuse, swap them out with a spare from the repair kit.  If you attempt to reassemble with the original, it is likely to get damaged on account of being swolen.  If it’s undamaged, put it back in the bag and it will outgas to shrink to original size in a day or so.  

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    steve-l
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    I would very much like to buy a bunch of replacement O rings for this pistol. Does a list exist of the sizes required?

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    nervoustrig
    Participant
    Member

    The spares kit included these sizes:

    M1.5 x 4
    M1.5 x 5
    M1.5 x 9
    M1.5 x 11 
    M1.5 x 12.5
    M3 x 21

    I was able to use AS568 (inch) O-rings in a few places:
    1.  Regulator to air tube: -007 90 durometer
    2.  Regulator to receiver: -013 70 durometer
    3.  The breech O-ring was a loose fit, often lifting whenever the breech block was rotated open.  Replaced it with an AS568 size.  I think it was a -012 but I didn't write it down.

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    nervoustrig
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    Member

    Guys, here's a copy of the exploded diagram:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/kti3z61opcb56rr/exploded%20view%20PP700S-A.pdf?dl=0

    The O-ring sizes are given but take notice they are given by the OD.  When selecting metric O-rings, they are instead dimensioned by the ID.  So for example, O-ring #34 is given as "D8-1.5".  Don't make the mistake of ordering M1.5×8.  Order M1.5×5.

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    DirtyDovi
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    Member

    What's that guys? 
    You want to see the most ridiculously suppressed PP700S-A of all time? 
    Sure, here ya go . . Gotcha covered!  Hahahahaha 

     

    I grabbed the RONIN / EMPEROR V3 *EXTENDER* as a joke, 
    because small bullpups and this pistol look hilarious w/ that combo!  

    In the end,  'hopefully', it'll actually work on my Kral Nemesis .25 cal.  

    Anyways . . . 

    I've been skimming through your previous posts on here since last time.. 
    Awesome stuff, and as always, thanks for sharing!  

    🙂👍 

    Sam – 

    PS:  For anyone wondering… 
    Yes,  I actually did shoot the PP700 w/ the extended suppressor configuration..  
    What did it sound like?  Hmm..  Try to imagine a pin drop in the vacuum of space..  
    Yeah, pretty much like that would sound like.  Plus slight ping of the action.. 
    Hmm..  Now to find a way to quiet that ping down..  🤣

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    L.Leon
    Participant
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    @dirty if you take off the suppressor you won’t hear that ping. 😏

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    nervoustrig
    Participant
    Member

    Well I shot mine quite a bit this past weekend.  On Sunday I decided to put the iPhone behind the scope to get a little footage to share.  Here's a short 3 minute clip shooting reactive targets…

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    L.Leon
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    Member

    Nice video, my pp700sa w/shoulder stock arrives today. Setting her up as a short distance pester. I intend to blood her this weekend and will post up a review.

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    nervoustrig
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    Very nice, I’m looking forward to hearing how it goes.  The weekend is almost here!

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    L.Leon
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    nervoustrig

    Very nice, I’m looking forward to hearing how it goes.  The weekend is almost here!

    Ordered the gun from Krale and DonnyFl LDC adapter last Saturday. The pp700sa arrived on Wednesday was expecting adapter today. Hopefully tomorrow, All of the starling work, I’m walking and shooting amongst the cows, I believe the bark of the pp700sa would spook them bad. Hopefully tomorrow night.

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