Are PCPs becoming more popular BECAUSE of inexpensive magnum springers?

Forums General Discussion Are PCPs becoming more popular BECAUSE of inexpensive magnum springers?

  • Views : 1212
  • Link

    Smaug
    Participant
    Member

    I was just chatting with mosinmarine about hold sensitivity of our Benjamin magnum springers. He’s looking forward to getting a PCP soon. Said he missed a few sparrows at 20 yards.

    I’m wondering if the typical adult airgunner enters the hobby by buying a magnum springer at Walmart, largely because of its published velocity spec? Then, they shoot it and either accept the low accuracy as normal or slowly learn how to get more out of it. Then, they find out about PCPs, which are not hold-sensitive and which can shoot at BIG power levels with lots of accuracy, and never looking back. They’re told that better, reasonably-powered springers are also very accurate and less hold sensitive. But upon further research, they find that one can buy a PCP for the same or less than the cost of a high quality springer.

    So the path becomes:

    a) Multi-pump pneumatic and/or lever action springer BB gun as a kid ($30)
    b) Inexpensive magnum springer as an adult ($200)
    c) Inexpensive PCP as an adult ($300 [and getting cheaper every day!])
    d) (possibly) expensive PCP ($600+) for more accuracy and less noise.

    This is my guess as to why PCPs are so popular here, compared to springers. (going by post count in their respective sub-fora) What do you think?

    Link

    bowwild
    Participant
    Member

    I got into PCPs when I discovered the existed.   I had never even heard of PCPs until about 5 years ago when visiting a fellow archer’s house and he showed me his.  I’ll be 63 this week. The attraction to me, even though I live on why own 170 acre farm is that I can shoot indoors in bad weather and I can increase the challenge of squirrel hunting which I’ve been doing with .22 RF since I was 13.

    Link

    JohnL57
    Participant
    Member

    There’s probably a fair bit of truth to your theory, I’d bet a lot of shooters have gotten into PCPs because of Ted’s videos. For me the path was somewhat different-I started with multi-pumps, went to a magnum springer (for it’s time-FWB 124), sold it and got a match springer (still have and cherish it), got overrun by ground squirrels, bought a series of cheap magnum springers, got frustrated, then finally caved in a got a Beeman/HW R9 and proceeded to clear out the squirrels. It was two or three years of springer bliss till I finally fell to the darkside.  At this point I’m filling with scuba tanks and resisting the higher end/high pressure side of PCPs.
      One comment I have to make is that once you learn your springer technique and have a good gun/scope all there is to do is go out and shoot, no tuning for shot count or power, pumping or worrying about how much air is in your tank, and all the other ‘benefits’ of PCP ownership.
      So there might just be an unheard from body of shooters who just head out with their trusty springers and proceed to make holes in things……
    John

    Link

    Willie14228
    Participant
    Member

    I think fairly easy accuracy does play a part in PCP shooting.
    For me I got into PCP for big bore hunting (my first two PCP guns is the Benjamin bulldog and the Texan )
    But I did follow much of the same path you described.
    Not to pat myself on the back but I consider myself a fairly good off hand shot and it bugged the hell out of me that my nitro was all over the paper.

    Link

    Ziabeam
    Participant
    Member

    “JohnL57”…there might just be an unheard from body of shooters who just head out with their trusty springers and proceed to make holes in things……
    John
     

    
…darn tootin’

    Link

    JimNM
    Participant
    Member

    I resemble the description.  I turned off to springers when the 18-20fpe Nitro gun I had sheared off the mounting bolts for the second time, and it ate scopes like popcorn.    Yes it did sling pellets with fearsome power compared to my daisy 99, but no where near as well.  You can’t miss fast enough to make up for the miss.

     

    Link

    oldspook
    Participant
    Member

    People like to take the easy way out.  Doing what Joe does with a springer is as hard as doing what Ted just did with a PCP.  Shooting a 2 MOA group with a magnum springer at any range is difficult.  A minute being a quarter inch at 25 yards that’s all shots under a dime and I mean UNDER the dime.  Doing that over and over is just about impossible with a magnum springer.  Pretty much any PCP will do that out of the box at the same or higher power levels.  If it won’t it is going to get a terrible reputation and wind up not selling.  PCPs are more popular because they are the easy way to high levels of accuracy.

    All that said, I’m basically a springer guy.  I usually keep a PCP around but enjoy the mechanical challenges of shooting springers.  They occupy me with the “fiddly” business of sorting and weighing pellets and trying to wring out what I know to be difficult but solvable problems.  Springers can destroy your confidence in your ability to shoot, your scope, your pellets, and the gun itself.  They are challenging.  That’s why I still shoot them.

    Link

    EMrider
    Participant
    Member

    PCPs are becomming more popular because the quality adjusted entry price points have fallen substantially in recent years.

    Inexpensive magnum springers have more or less been a constant.

    R
     

    Link

    addertooth
    Participant
    Member

    Spot on EMrider,  the price/performance curve (for the gun only), has started to shift in the direction of PCP rifles.  On the flip side, once you add the cost of a pump/tank/compressor; the financial advantage is less obvious.  The inflation goodies are just part of the price of doing PCP business.  And for plinking, I can shoot for hours on end with a springer, and never fiddle with a tank or a pump.  I have both types (springers, PCP), and each have their niche for use.

    Link

    zebra
    Participant
    Member

    I started with a Walmart Springer and co2 guns. 

    I got into PCP rifles because almost every co2 gun I ever bought broke within a few months of buying them and my Springer was just horrible to use. It’s accuracy was just random (at best). It was slow to load and difficult to cock. It was just no fun.

    Then I found PCP guns while searching for other co2 guns on the PA site. They seemed to have the best of both co2 and springers without some of the negatives. I.e. I could get an accurate, powerful repeater that was quiet enough not to annoy my neighbors. I also hoped that, if I spent more, I could expect that it might still be working and holding air after a few months. 

    I know now that there are quality accurate springers but I didn’t at the time. Plus, my experience with the Walmart Springer put me off wanting to find out. 

    The main thing was that hardly any repeaters were available with springers. I noticed that there are some new gas piston repeaters with built in moderators now. 

    Had there been a quiet 10 round repeating 22 cal with an advertised 900fps at the time, I may have tried that before getting into PCP guns. 

    Link

    Birdo
    Participant
    Member

    Magnum springers aren’t accurate enough or fun to shoot, at least for enthusiasts.  High end springers were heavy, long, single shot, hard on scopes and expensive.  

    I got an FX in 2002 and never looked back.  Still have an HW50s and an R9. As well as crosman CO2s, but PCPs are the way to go.

    Im a lower powered shooter, no longer chase velocity and FPE.

    Link

    aa_limited
    Participant
    Member

    BIRDO
    ​what do you consider  low velocity in a pcp? what cal and at what fps do you and or foot pounds do you prefur in a .177 and .22

    Link

    Birdo
    Participant
    Member

    I like a 22 cal FX cyclone that does 30fpe on high, but I mostly plink on low for 12fpe.  My newest air gun is a brocock bantam that should do 10-18 for in 177.  It gets delivered on Thursday from AoA.

    the crosman 2250 in 22 does about 450 fps and has a shroud. The 2400 crosman is a 177 and does 600fps. The 2300s pistol shoots around 500 in 177.

    The HW50s does 850 with 7.9 premiers.

    25s are fun but are louder and gulp air

    Link

    nced
    Participant
    Member

    A few comments…………
    IMHO…a few the reasons the PCPs are becoming more popular because they’re easier to shoot accurately than a piston gun, “Heavy high ballistic pellets” can be shot at velocities most piston guns shoot mid weight pellets, PCPs tend to be lighter weight and shorter than “magnum” springers, scoping a PCP doesn’t require “springer rated scopes”. Funny thing however is that I see a lot of “high zoot” optics on PCPs so perhaps the need for springer rated scopes on springers isn’t a big part of the equation.

    Some direct comments…………..
    c) Inexpensive PCP as an adult ($300 [and getting cheaper every day!])
    d) (possibly) expensive PCP ($600+) for more accuracy and less noise.

    Humm, while not the least expensive PCP, last year my brother bought a Benjamin Maurauder, hand pump, and fitting to connect the pump. The damage was just about $800 for the privilege of massive effort to shoot 10.5 grain .177 pellets accurately at high velocity. The Discovery can be had for about $100 less so even that’s pretty pricey compared to a good springer. Of course there is the $150 Benjamin Wildfire, however that doesn’t include a pump or charging yoke for the privilege of pumping or buying air and counting shots for a recharge. Seems that expensive Styers, FWB, Thomas etc PCPs are pretty common at the THAGC field target club I attend so I’m thinking that cost has little bearing on the popularity of PCPs! Check out the list of scopes and rifles used at the THAGC field target match last Saturday…..
    http://www.thagc.com/

    As far as “less noise” is concerned, some PCPs are extremely quiet via built in sound suppressors, however at the field target matches I attend a lot of PCPs are considerably louder than my HW95 and the report of some rival my .22 rimfire!

     

    Link

    Smaug
    Participant
    Member

    “nced”A few comments…………
    IMHO…a few the reasons the PCPs are becoming more popular because they’re easier to shoot accurately than a piston gun, “Heavy high ballistic pellets” can be shot at velocities most piston guns shoot mid weight pellets, PCPs tend to be lighter weight and shorter than “magnum” springers, scoping a PCP doesn’t require “springer rated scopes”. Funny thing however is that I see a lot of “high zoot” optics on PCPs so perhaps the need for springer rated scopes on springers isn’t a big part of the equation.

    Some direct comments…………..
    c) Inexpensive PCP as an adult ($300 [and getting cheaper every day!])
    d) (possibly) expensive PCP ($600+) for more accuracy and less noise.

    Humm, while not the least expensive PCP, last year my brother bought a Benjamin Maurauder, hand pump, and fitting to connect the pump. The damage was just about $800 for the privilege of massive effort to shoot 10.5 grain .177 pellets accurately at high velocity. The Discovery can be had for about $100 less so even that’s pretty pricey compared to a good springer. Of course there is the $150 Benjamin Wildfire, however that doesn’t include a pump or charging yoke for the privilege of pumping or buying air and counting shots for a recharge. Seems that expensive Styers, FWB, Thomas etc PCPs are pretty common at the THAGC field target club I attend so I’m thinking that cost has little bearing on the popularity of PCPs! Check out the list of scopes and rifles used at the THAGC field target match last Saturday…..
    http://www.thagc.com/

    As far as “less noise” is concerned, some PCPs are extremely quiet via built in sound suppressors, however at the field target matches I attend a lot of PCPs are considerably louder than my HW95 and the report of some rival my .22 rimfire!

     

    
I agree on most points, Ed.

    The Discovery can be had, WITH the pump for $300-400, not $700. Your brother must have bought a NICE pump, rather than a Benjamin or cheap Chinese one. (I did too, since that is my “tank”) 

    Also, both the Marauder and Discovery come with the male Foster fitting attached to the end of the air tube, so that’s not an extra expense.

    You’re right on the noise of some of the competition PCPs. I need to start wearing ear plugs, as the air strippers some folks have on their Steyrs are deafening, when sitting next to them. I shoot field target too, but I’m not serious enough to travel for matches; I just shoot the ones my club puts on.

    Re. scopes for PCPs, since they shoot accurately at longer distances, they “need” better glass. It doesn’t have to be shock-proof, like springer scopes, but they should be better optically, to see the small kill zones on the distant targets.

    Link

    hokieben
    Participant
    Member

    I have followed that path exactly. I’m currently on step C and saving up for D.
    A. Crosman multipump as a kid
    B. Benjamin Trail NP2
    C. Prod and Hill pump
    D. TBD, probably will be a Brocock Bantam or FX Streamline

    To me, the inexpensive magnum springer was a low-risk way to confirm my interest in airguning as an adult. I did plenty of research before buying the Trail, so I knew what to expect in terms of accuracy and hold sensitivity and I can appreciate it for what it is. I knew from my initial research that I would most likely end up with a PCP, but it’s just too much of a financial leap to get in to them right off the bat… even a nicer springer like a D34 was hard to justify at that point, since I hadn’t shot an airgun since I was a kid. After having the Trail for a year and confirming that I indeed enjoyed airgunning and that I could make time for it (I have 3 young kids and several other hobbies that contend for my time and money), I was able to justify the Prod and pump purchase in my mind. Now that I’ve got the pump, it makes it easier to take the next step to a higher end PCP.

    Link

    MOSINMARINE
    Participant
    Member

    This is the same exact path that i am taking.

    1) crossman pump when i was a kid 
    2) benjamin nitro piston
    3) tbd more then likly will be benjamin maurader 
    4) tbd (wish for fx bobcat thanks to ted and his youtube videos)

    I started with a pump when i was a kid and i believe i even bought a break barrel. I used them to practice shooting before i went into the military. I think the incentive of shooting pcp’s is you can go from shooting a center fire rifle then pick up a pcp with not much of a learning curve. I picked up a break barrel when i got out of the military since it was something i knew and i had no idea what a pcp was or what gear i needed. The price of pcp’s have gone down tremendously over the last few years. I am hoping the cost of some of the gear goes along with the price of the rifles. The good thing is some company’s like pyramid air give you the opportunity to make monthly payments. Makes those expensive out of reach pcp’s available.

    Link

    ncstan
    Participant
    Member

    I must take a different avenue on the popularity of pcps .I did take the route of the Daisy B 25 then to a Sheridan pumper.to a nice break barrel or two.Always kept a break barrel at the door for critter control .Also have a life time love affair with powder burners. But after watching Ted and a few others on You Tube and finding a couple of Rookie friendly Forums I went high end Pcp .I believe many of the new Pcp shooters are drawn in by You tube and Have little if any gun experience .I think price of Pcps in the entry level have made it more affordable .But You tube and forums are the main force drawing new people to the hobby and I believe this is a global experience .Stan

    Link

    spysir
    Participant
    Member

    Stan, I thin k you nailed it.

    John

    Link

    nced
    Participant
    Member

    My brother bought a Maurauder, not a Discovery and a hand pump. 

    I assumed (lol, we know what ass-u-me does) he also needed to buy a “charging fitting”, but obviously this springer only shooter doesn’t know squat about PCPs but I do know that my brother paid about $500 for the gun an $180 for the pump, plus shipping which explains the $700 price tag he told me he paid.

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 39 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.