Are moderators legal for airguns?
- Thread starter jennamber2
- Start date
You have walked into the most gray area of shooting. Yes they are legal, look at the Marauder with an integrated suppression system to the Donny FL moderators. Yes they are legal, but, and it's a big but -
if you go into your shop and build a flashlight / solvent trap suppressor just for your airgun, that probably crosses the line into not legal because it can suppress a firearm. Oh and under the FFA of 1934, a silencer is a Firearm! No it can't shoot on its own, but it is a firearm that must be registered with the feds.
Now if the moderator is like a Donny, with things like felt as sound deadening agents or some plastic baffles that wouldn't last a single shot in a firearm, you are probably OK,
You can send a request for opinion to the Alphabet org, which will take from 6 to 12 months for them to get back to you about the legality of suppressors on airguns, or you can just ask Donny for the Alphabet org letter I believe he's got on file stating that his suppressors are not firearms (stupid, but even in 1934, the folks writing firearms legislation didn't understand guns).
if you go into your shop and build a flashlight / solvent trap suppressor just for your airgun, that probably crosses the line into not legal because it can suppress a firearm. Oh and under the FFA of 1934, a silencer is a Firearm! No it can't shoot on its own, but it is a firearm that must be registered with the feds.
Now if the moderator is like a Donny, with things like felt as sound deadening agents or some plastic baffles that wouldn't last a single shot in a firearm, you are probably OK,
You can send a request for opinion to the Alphabet org, which will take from 6 to 12 months for them to get back to you about the legality of suppressors on airguns, or you can just ask Donny for the Alphabet org letter I believe he's got on file stating that his suppressors are not firearms (stupid, but even in 1934, the folks writing firearms legislation didn't understand guns).
Upvote 0
Firearm suppressors are not considered FIREARMS. Their possession and sale is controlled by the BATFE under the auspices of the NFA or National Firearms Act of 1934 and they are considered to be controlled items or NFA items only, not firearms in their own right.
They are subject to the restrictions and registration requirements of all NFA items such as Automatic weapons, destructive devices, explosives, and heavy ordnance, but not all NFA items are firearms per se.
They are subject to the restrictions and registration requirements of all NFA items such as Automatic weapons, destructive devices, explosives, and heavy ordnance, but not all NFA items are firearms per se.
Upvote 0
DON’T build your own!
DON’T buy a suppressor unless it’s clearly marked For Airguns ONLY! This is true especially if you own any firearms with 1/2UNF or compatible thread.
Don’t be in possession of firearm and airgun moderator outside of your home.
If caught they can throw the books at you and it’s a federal felony in any state!
EDIT: I’m not a lawyer so take that as simple advise. Doesn’t hurt to play it safe.
DON’T buy a suppressor unless it’s clearly marked For Airguns ONLY! This is true especially if you own any firearms with 1/2UNF or compatible thread.
Don’t be in possession of firearm and airgun moderator outside of your home.
If caught they can throw the books at you and it’s a federal felony in any state!
EDIT: I’m not a lawyer so take that as simple advise. Doesn’t hurt to play it safe.
Upvote 0
Fair warning, I'm not a lawyer, so if you have questions, go get a real member of the BAR.
Whether silencers are considered firearms may just be splitting hairs, but if you refer to this Alphabet org publication:
https://www.Alphabet org.gov/firearms/docs/guide/Alphabet org-guidebook-importation-verification-firearms-ammunition-and-implements-war/download
Page 6:
NFA Firearms – Those firearms as defined in 26 U.S.C. § 5845, which include such firearms as machineguns, machinegun receivers, silencers, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, destructive devices, smoothbore pistols, and certain other firearms (including certain unserviceable weapons).
Yeah, silencers are in the same class as machine guns. Who'd have thought? Sometimes, Politicians aren't the brightest bulbs.
I think that just underscores how important it is to take proper care when purchasing a silencer (Moderator in our lingo), as the BATF considers silencers that can be used on firearms as an NFA firearm. Bizarre, but like I said, even in 1934, politicians didn't understand guns.
Now, the legality and how far the Feds can stretch the definition is limited. This case was mentioned in other posts here on AGN: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1527670.html. The case shows the courts won't allow the BATF to just throw the book at people, but imagine paying your lawyer to get you off a Federal charge like that. It'd be really expensive, probably cost you jobs, and much more.
What it comes down to is that silencer law is murky at best. Lines are blurred, If you intend to build your own, get legal advice and a letter from the BATF, or just do it the easy way and buy one from a reputable dealer where the supplier already went through the legal hassles.
Also, as for state law, yes that varies by state. I live out west (not California, Washington or Oregon), and most Western states out here don't give a hoot about airguns, silencers or anything related. Do check your local state laws as NY, CA, NJ, Illinois and others can be pretty touchy about anything gun related including airguns.
Whether silencers are considered firearms may just be splitting hairs, but if you refer to this Alphabet org publication:
https://www.Alphabet org.gov/firearms/docs/guide/Alphabet org-guidebook-importation-verification-firearms-ammunition-and-implements-war/download
Page 6:
NFA Firearms – Those firearms as defined in 26 U.S.C. § 5845, which include such firearms as machineguns, machinegun receivers, silencers, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, destructive devices, smoothbore pistols, and certain other firearms (including certain unserviceable weapons).
Yeah, silencers are in the same class as machine guns. Who'd have thought? Sometimes, Politicians aren't the brightest bulbs.
I think that just underscores how important it is to take proper care when purchasing a silencer (Moderator in our lingo), as the BATF considers silencers that can be used on firearms as an NFA firearm. Bizarre, but like I said, even in 1934, politicians didn't understand guns.
Now, the legality and how far the Feds can stretch the definition is limited. This case was mentioned in other posts here on AGN: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1527670.html. The case shows the courts won't allow the BATF to just throw the book at people, but imagine paying your lawyer to get you off a Federal charge like that. It'd be really expensive, probably cost you jobs, and much more.
What it comes down to is that silencer law is murky at best. Lines are blurred, If you intend to build your own, get legal advice and a letter from the BATF, or just do it the easy way and buy one from a reputable dealer where the supplier already went through the legal hassles.
Also, as for state law, yes that varies by state. I live out west (not California, Washington or Oregon), and most Western states out here don't give a hoot about airguns, silencers or anything related. Do check your local state laws as NY, CA, NJ, Illinois and others can be pretty touchy about anything gun related including airguns.
Upvote 0
Splitting hairs is correct.
We are on the same page, and you obviously understand the intricacies involved in dealing with the Fed. Gov. when it comes to NFA items.
My post was a knee jerk reaction to the all too common misconceptions people hold and repeatedly parrot regarding NFA items and their ignorance of the regulations regarding the same. That reaction stems from 25 years of involvement in Class 2 SOT manufacturing, and dealing with the public at large as an employee of a type 7 & type 10 FFL holder.
You sir, obviously do not fall into that category, and if any slight was taken from my previous post I apologize for the appearance of 'talking down to you'.
We are on the same page, and you obviously understand the intricacies involved in dealing with the Fed. Gov. when it comes to NFA items.
My post was a knee jerk reaction to the all too common misconceptions people hold and repeatedly parrot regarding NFA items and their ignorance of the regulations regarding the same. That reaction stems from 25 years of involvement in Class 2 SOT manufacturing, and dealing with the public at large as an employee of a type 7 & type 10 FFL holder.
You sir, obviously do not fall into that category, and if any slight was taken from my previous post I apologize for the appearance of 'talking down to you'.
Upvote 0
No slight taken. So much confusion in the area, I completely understand the reaction. Good to know you've got experience in the arena too. The laws get pretty murky because BATF won't issue a blanket statement on airgun moderators, but prefers to leave it muddy so they can enforce when they see fit. I understand the desire not to box themselves into a corner, but there are enough of use using moderators on airguns, it's be nice if they'd produce guidelines or something.
Agree on the general public not knowing what's legal and what's not as well. Only reason I'm informed is due to research, mostly by my son. He keeps me informed on all things legal.
I personally believe that a 3d printed moderator that would blow apart on the first shot on a PB, but last decades on an airgun would be legal, but without a letter from BATF, you never really know.
Yes, I believe we are completely on the same page.
Agree on the general public not knowing what's legal and what's not as well. Only reason I'm informed is due to research, mostly by my son. He keeps me informed on all things legal.
I personally believe that a 3d printed moderator that would blow apart on the first shot on a PB, but last decades on an airgun would be legal, but without a letter from BATF, you never really know.
Yes, I believe we are completely on the same page.
Upvote 0
G
Guest
Guest
LOL, but why? Can you cite the why, I am extremely curious.
I jokingly suspect in NY, expulsion of gas, especially as it applies to gastrointestinal or esophageal gasses in public could be considered assaulting the public with methane-sulfuric dangerous gasses and can be, depending on the situation, prosecuted as an unlawful act if suppressed. I suspect suppression of such expulsion would be considered unlawful or at a minimum taxed as a revenue source in NY.
Although I cannot help but be curious, where does the fire come from in a pellet pistol/rifle that makes it a firearm?
I jokingly suspect in NY, expulsion of gas, especially as it applies to gastrointestinal or esophageal gasses in public could be considered assaulting the public with methane-sulfuric dangerous gasses and can be, depending on the situation, prosecuted as an unlawful act if suppressed. I suspect suppression of such expulsion would be considered unlawful or at a minimum taxed as a revenue source in NY.
Although I cannot help but be curious, where does the fire come from in a pellet pistol/rifle that makes it a firearm?
Upvote 0
Where “exactly “ does it say the above. Can you provide a link? Something concrete. You are making a bold assertion.
Upvote 0
In so many ways your gun laws are exponentially better than what we have in the UK. I do however find it odd the hoops you guys have to go through to get a moderator, something that is encouraged by the licensing authorities in the UK. I have a moderator on all my firearms. It can make a subsonic round like a 22lr mouse fart quiet, otherwise it just "moderates" the muzzel crack. I wouldn't shoot without one.
What is the rational for the restriction on moderators in US?
What is the rational for the restriction on moderators in US?
Upvote 0
I lm from AZ and I do summer work in New York New Jersey for 3 to 5 months I understand that am not a resident of New York or New Jersey and I go hunting in PA. All the time I called and ask if I can have my gun and airguns with me they told me the law is for residence only not visitors. They said we get a lot of hunters going from and around NY NJ. Just keep your guns in the trunk or back bed with the magazines locked in the cab away or glovebox not loaded when traveling. But this is a no gun state trust me I can't even go shoot at a range with out driving a long ways. Ernest Rowe of Fx is close to where I stay and we get together but we have to drive almost 2 hours to go to a outdoor range just to enjoy our airguns I would never move to the New York Jersey area if you are a gun person it sucks hear for guns and airguns they treat them as the same it don't make any sense.
Upvote 0
In the Netherlands there are no restrictions on airgun for power limits or limits on moderators (they are encouraged) but no hunting with air arms allowed. So you can buy all you want and no issues. But don’t go to Germany with your Dutch air rifle or Belgium with your moderator or you’ll have issues. So this is similar to USA. Know before you go.
Upvote 0
