AR9 for Home defense?

Forums Off Topic AR9 for Home defense?

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    Michael
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    Some say that a shotgun is the best home defense weapon. I’ve never owned one, but I would think that wielding a weapon of considerable size around corners and in hallways would be difficult. Does anyone have any experience with a 9mm submachine gun?

    Like this
    https://www.sigsauer.com/store/sig-mpx-sbr.html

    or this

    AR9 SBR

    Thoughts?

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    Willie14228
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    Hi Michael, problem with a 9 is pass through and even secondary passthrough that is to say through body then through a wall. They do make rounds for home protection

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    Michael
    Keymaster
    Keymaster

    Both models listed above will shoot all hollow point self-defense ammunition designed to minimize pass thru’s. Which in my opinion is why an AR15/M4 chambered in 5.56 or .223 would be bad in a home defense situation with others around. But I have no experience with a shotgun.

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    bill_dd97
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    There are multiple reasons why a shotgun is recommended, but not just a shotgun, a 12 gauge pump.

    1. Precision shooting not required
    2. Dozens of loads to choose from. (I prefer target or bird loads, they lose energy quickly for less chance of wall penetration)
    3. The sound of a pump loading a shell is universally known and intimidating.
    4. Pumps are reliable.
    5. You can use it as a blunt weapon also.

    Just to name a few.

    I have a 12 gauge with pistol grip for intruders.  I also take it to the back country for bears.

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    Willie14228
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    I do have to testify about the CLICK CLOCK a pump makes will get attention but for the same reason as I stated above when I pull the trigger I don’t want the bullet to go nowhere but in the perp.
    A home defense round for a 9 will do the trick though I if I may suggest talk with local pd I know many officers has moved away from 9mm in favor for 445 because of better knockdown power

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    ajshoots
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    Just to shed light, there is prefragmented .223/556 ammo available that works well if you want to use an AR. Also very light vmax or similar varmint rounds are highly frangible and work very well for home defense.

    I personally feel that the right gun is what you are most comfortable with. That is why I have tons of pistols, shotguns, and rifles. I feel comfortable with all of them!! Lol!! I would not personally buy an AR9 or similar for defense, but that is just my opinion. Will it work? Sure, I would image there are plenty of people who love that type of gun for defense but wouldn’t be my pick.

    For those that have no home defense or tactical training, I think a shotgun makes the most sense. Unless you have first hand experience in a high stress situation or enough training to have the confidence to make well placed shots with a single bullet, a shotgun pattern solves that issue!! If you have no doubt about putting rounds in the head and or chest, I would go with a handgun over a long gun in a close quarters situation.

    I keep a 357 with hand loaded inverted hollow base wadcutters at my bed side. About 3 feet from my bed, I have a small safe that holds my SHTF stuff. Inside is a .40 with multiple mags, AR with multiple mags, a 12ga, a long range rifle, boxes of ammo for each, a couple good knives and a couple high quality flashlights. All guns are always loaded and ready to rock.

    The key above and beyond all else is training!! Even if all you have is a .22 pistol, training will make you proficient enough to protect yourself and those around you.

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    Willie14228
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    1 other point to make rifles compared to pistols
    That is if you have kids
    A pistol can be locked into a fingerprint fast access safe and is easy to maneuver around hallways and so on whereas a rifle is harder to lock away but still have fast access and is harder to maneuver in tight quarters
    Something to consider as home protection is going to Hinge on how fast you can get to it, while at the same time keep it away from kids and unautherized people

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    Michael
    Keymaster
    Keymaster

    Thanks guys, all great points. I did a little more research & apparently the AR9’s are class 3 weapons. I’m not interested in all the extra paperwork, fees, & waiting periods. I’ve got a few weapons that I’m very comfortable with, but I may branch out into the self-defense shotgun arena too.

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    AZBOBCAT
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    If you like the 9mm carbine with short barrel get a pistol version with a pistol brace stock. They can be used like a stock if needed check out a CZ EVO. I have a large firearm collection and a Glock 19 is my EDC and all around defense gun.

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    oldspook
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    Michael;
    You want a dedicated home defense solution.  CQB in your home… very tough problem that one.  You want low penetration but high knock down.  That calls for very frangible ammo or shot shells.  The problem with most shotguns in that environment is point-ability.  The classical solution is to go to a high capacity, small caliber pistol, but then you are courting over penetration again.  Mind you the problem isn’t just about picking a weapon.  You really should spend some time on a range with some experienced home defense experts… notice I did not say law enforcement (been there), military (been there), or gun nuts (still there).  You need to talk with people who have actually been in that situation not some self-appointed internet guru who runs a gun range in the back woods of (name your state).

    http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selector-results.cfm?series=41
    http://www.cabelas.com/product/Smith-Wesson-Governor-Revolver/1275164.uts
    Shoot these:
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2900393924/winchester-pdx1-defender-ammunition-410-bore-2-1-2-3-disks-over-1-4-oz-bb-shot
    or these:
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/440699/federal-premium-personal-defense-ammunition-410-bore-3-4-buckshot-9-pellets-box-of-20

    Purpose built for the job.

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    Michael
    Keymaster
    Keymaster

    “AZBOBCAT”If you like the 9mm carbine with short barrel get a pistol version with a pistol brace stock. They can be used like a stock if needed

    
A firearm instructor recently warned me about this exact thing. Turns out the BATF has been slapping HUGE fines on people they catch using their “pistols” like an SBR at the range. I want to stay on the up & up.

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    Michael
    Keymaster
    Keymaster

    “oldspook”Michael;
    The problem with most shotguns in that environment is point-ability.

    
I couldn’t agree more. Also the “spread” could end up hitting something you weren’t aiming for.

    I recently scored a 248/250 in a CCW class (pulled 2 shots in the rapid fire scenario). So I feel proficient with all of the handguns that I have secured throughout different places in our home. But honestly I think I am more accurate with my M4 carbine. I may look into some 5.56 expanding self defense rounds.  

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    oldspook
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    Apparently I can’t read… :)  LOL, got my panties all up in a bunch and started composing this answer…  Then realized I was reading the wrong post…  DERP.

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    JamesD.
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    Just my opinion and I’d need more info from you to give a good one. What’s the LONGEST distance in your house from one side to another? Point is if you’re at end of hallway and perp is 10 yards away, or coming upstairs in a choke point, A 12 gauge 2/3/4″ low or high brass with #4 shot will drop perp. If longest distance a shot could be taken is 20 yards  IN your house, NOT your yard. They are NOT a threat unless IN your house. You pattern test shotgun at longest possible distance that may occur IN your house. I debated this with some fool from Canada. It’s $20 for 100 rounds of 7 1/2 shot 2 3/4″ skeet shells. OH, you need at least 1000FTLBS for home defense. LOOK, if I have to shoot, I’m shooting to kill, yes #4 is better, 00 will over penetrate (there are new 1 3/4″ shells) but at 10 yards or less which is the LONGEST shot that could be taken in my house by Wife or Son if I were not here, a 2 3/4″ hi brass 7 1/2 shot 12 gauge load to a perps face IS going to take 1/2 his head off. A chest shot. The wad is going to act like a slug at 10 yards or under. This fool thinks skeet shells can’t be deadly. MY main point is concern about over penetration. #4 shot is a good compromise. Know your distances, pattern your gun on a 4×8′ sheet of cardboard, drywall, ply wood. Only concern is heavy winter clothing with 7 1/2 shot so yes, aim for face or use #4 to #2 in MY opinion. 00 or 000 is overkill and will penetrate. If over penetration is NOT a concern, use whatever you want. You’re the one who’ll have to patch holes and clean up the blood. Yes, a .45 or .357 will drop perp in tracks, So will a 12 gauge at 10 yards or under even with small shot. I say if you’ve never owned a shotgun, you need to get one. I know a guy who got shot 8 times with a 9mm and lived. If they aren’t the right bullet they just punch clean holes through a perp. A 12 gauge shotgun is devastating, and IMO the absolute best hands down home defense weapon and it’s versatile with barrels swaps and many different ammo choices. Easily kill Deer at 100 yards with slugs. Your concern about tight spaces, etc. It’s legal to have them as shot as 18.5″ and shorter with certain permits. I’d prefer a 20-24″ barrel for tighter pattern. I actually wouldn’t care if it was a 34″ goose gun. If I know perp is in house and a threat, he’s as good as dead if he doesn’t leave when he hears the Dogs extremely loud deep bark.

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    oldspook
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    “JamesD.” I know a guy who got shot 8 times with a 9mm and lived.

    
 I know of a guy that took two full 15 round mags from a .30 carbine.  He lived and never tried to break into that house again.  Ball ammo in pistol calibers doesn’t have a lot of knock down.  :)

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    AZBOBCAT
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    “Michael”

    “AZBOBCAT”If you like the 9mm carbine with short barrel get a pistol version with a pistol brace stock. They can be used like a stock if needed

    
A firearm instructor recently warned me about this exact thing. Turns out the BATF has been slapping HUGE fines on people they catch using their “pistols” like an SBR at the range. I want to stay on the up & up.

    
I’m an 07/02 FFL with a BATFE agent on speed dial..I would wager a large amount of money that is bullshit. I hear that from lots of internet conspiracy types.  We Manufacture  SBR, SBS, AOW and suppressors.  If you are worried about pass through plenty of 9mm fragile ammo available  and also 223 5.56 the higher velocity rifle round is extremely effective.  Also in a home defense situation you are likely shooting inside 10”  I find distances like that much easier with a handgun. If you are staying in place in one room and not moving  a carbine would be nice rested on some cover.

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    gman2020
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    The best home defense weapon is the one that you know how to operate 100% – meaning you can make it ready to fire and safe again in the dark, you know how to field strip it, and have muscle memory from lots of practice at the range. I agree that a shotgun make for an awesome home defense tool, but in my case I have a .45 1911 style gun with +P hollow points because I can keep it in a gun vault for safety (kids in the house) and I’ve been shooting this type of weapon for almost 40 years, so in a stressful situation I am confident that my instincts will work. Also, I like having the ability to slip the gun into a large pocket or waistband if it turns out to be someone friendly at the door and I don’t want to spook them.

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    BillH
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     Ruger Black Hawk loaded with HOT 158gr. Semi Jacketed Hollow Points.
    Wheel guns are very reliable.
     The cocking of a wheel gun also makes a distinct sound that most humans understand.

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    ajsantiago
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    “bill_dd97”There are multiple reasons why a shotgun is recommended, but not just a shotgun, a 12 gauge pump.

    1. Precision shooting not required
    2. Dozens of loads to choose from. (I prefer target or bird loads, they lose energy quickly for less chance of wall penetration)
    3. The sound of a pump loading a shell is universally known and intimidating.
    4. Pumps are reliable.
    5. You can use it as a blunt weapon also.

    Just to name a few.

    I have a 12 gauge with pistol grip for intruders.  I also take it to the back country for bears.

    
Completely agree and it’s proven. Might need to replace a few walls in the house, or just leave the holes there to find the next intruder a little easier.

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    AJ
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     Had an UZI and Mac11 and were very difficult to hit things with either one of them especially with the MAC so I would suggest a 12 gauge HK Benelli semi auto as being highly recommended never any problems with it. When in a home defense and possibly in a life and death situation you don’t have any time to think so just grab it, cock then GO!
    NOTHING is more important than YOU and YOUR FAMILY’S LIFE in YOUR OWN HOME!
    You never know exactly what is going through the intruder’s mind as he is entering your home but it is already known to be ill intensions.

     

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