AOA and Utah Airguns

I think they are both great. AOA has been here longer. URG is the new kid on the block, but Justin is doing everything first class. Both have great people and it's the people that make your business go. If I were starting out new, guess it would depend on who was closest. They are both industry leaders. Personally I have used AOA simply because UAG was not around when I got hooked on this sport and by the time they were I was embarrassed to admit how many airguns I owned. Any of the guys at AOA are great, but I mostly talk to Darren and Rich. They are busy and their phone system will put you in line for a call back, but I have never had them fail to call me back. Good luck with your quest for the "ultimate" airgun. It's a slippery slope. Sylvan

If you want a more powerful. 25, I recommend you consider a RAW or a Cricket from Georgia Airguns with the powertune. I have both and they shoot 60-62 fpe with excellent accuracy. I don't know if you can squeeze that much power from a Crown. BTW , you can get RAWs, FXs, and Daystates from Ken Hicks at Southern Precision Weapons www.spaweapons.com. Ken will set the gun up for your specs.

As a keepsake, work of art and rifle to enjoy shooting during your retirement:

https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/precharged-pcp/daystate-red-wolf-walnut/

~~~~~~~~~~~~

This from an FX fan -- 6 FXs to date.

See Jared Clark at AoA (ext 103)

Will bench rested paper shooting be the primary duty of this new .25 PCP?

Matt

I've dealt with both AoA and UAG. I don't think it matters which or who you talk to. Both top notch. My gun is an original Impact upgraded to an X Barrel. Can't say enough good things about it. 25 Caliber, but for a subdivision it does have a good pop to it. Consider a Donny FL moderator. As for Impact over Crown, the Impact is short, can be upgraded to the 700 mm barrel, etc. Short is important to me as I'm not that tall any hunting scenario seems to go better with a shorter gun. Impact and Crown are both incredibly accurate. I have serviced the Impact myself, using it as a learning platform in many ways.

As for the Red Wolf, and this is a personal thing, I just can't get over electronics and batteries in guns. Will I be able to buy a circuit board to fix my gun in 10 or 15 years? Or will an electronics failure render my gun a paper weight? What about ongoing software upgrades? Yeah, it's a personal thing.

I don't have any information on the Wolverine, so cannot speak to it.

That's my opinion. All 4 are incredible guns and you can't go wrong with any of them. Maybe choose via coin flip?

I just retired in September and had those same thoughts a year ago, so I worked hard, saved up and bought two; first a .25 wildcat and a .22 impact. The impact is now my go to gun and I don’t tinker. It still has everything set as it came out of the box. Have dropped starlings out to 85 yards. Call Jim at Precision Air Gun, very knowledgeable and will spend time talking with you. No call back or getting put on hold. 

I have a Wolverine R in 177. It is very accurate to the point on a windless day, I have put 5 or more in the same small hole at 40 yards.

I like the concept of the Red Wolf, but as stated before, what will happen if the circuit board calls it a day? My guess is a new one will cost well over $500. It is probably made for less than $25.

We know there will be upgrades to the circuit and is the one in there capable of being re-programmed?

While the gun is functioning, there are probably few as good and maybe none better, but being as new as it is, have any fatal bugs been worked out, if there are any? If you go to the Daystate web site, you can see there have been some problems to date.

If I was the rich kid I would like to be, I would order one as soon as I got done posting this blurb, but I am going to wait a year or two before even considering it.

" I demand precision, performance, durability, efficiency, accuracy, and low maintenance with everything I do. " and the Impact made your list, wow.

Shooting them first might be the best idea and face to face time will tell you all. Perhaps ask each if they will deliver a rifle with a guaranteed accuracy of sub MOA then jump that way.





John

So the Redwolf is definitely the "hotness" of the moment, one of if not the most desirable gun to have. And honestly you can't really go "wrong" with any of the guns mentioned here, as they're all exceptional BUT..... and it is a big full rounded spankable but, the Redwolf in particular turns me off a bit particularly in your scenario. Let me explain. 



You say you're retiring soon, and this is a retirement gift to yourself, so you're probably looking for a gun to "see you out." Figure then you're 65 (all rough numbers) so you should figure you're going to be shooting it at least until you're 85. Given the rate of medical progress, chance, etc 95 or 105 both aren't out of the question. That means you're looking for a gun that you will keep running for at least 20 years if not 40. Think back to 20 years ago. It was the late 90s. How different were rechargeable batteries back then? How about electronics? Pretty darn different. How many electronic things which used microprocessors from back then do you own which still work? Probably a surprising number, but it is only surprising because ANY of them still work. Now granted electronics are getting better and cheaper and easier to work on by the day. 



I'm a pretty tech savvy guy, and can happily/easily work on electronics. The Redwolf's system really turns me off. Instead of going open source, making the programming in-built (which would have been easy, and then you don't have to source an expensive and scarce programmer) etc, they went with a proprietary closed system. At least this gen uses a small stick lipo which you can probably find a replacement of from an RC store when that packs it in, but in 10 years it is a good bet even the balancing plugs will be different. And the software is all closed source and proprietary. How repairable for YOU explicitly will that gun be in 20+ years? Will you even be able to get compatible parts? Will even Daystate be willing/able to repair them? I just don't know, but the closed-source nature of the system means everything will be much much harder. 

Meanwhile, despite Daystate's claims, their team Redwolf did ANYTHING but dominate at EBR. That doesn't mean they're bad by any stretch, far from it actually, but I interpret that as showing their electronics and in fact entire guns don't give them a decisive edge over conventional mechanical rifles. 

So how about a "normal" gun? Well the spring washers in the reg will go over time. Those are standard parts generally, I doubt any airgun company makes them in-house. o-rings have been around for a LONG time. Googling suggests the modern O-ring was invented in 1937, which seems about right given advances in rubber technology of the day. While o-rings themselves are advancing in materials, and can genuinely do incredible things (like seamless PTFE coated silicone o-rings, talk about living in a time of miracle and wonder), expect the o-ring will be a mainstay of mechanical systems and widely available for at least a century to come if not forever. Springs too in time will meet their end, thankfully coil springs are fairly simple things and can even be DIYed if absolutely necessary. Usually though a spring of roughly comparable size and force can be found. Other than that, there isn't too much to wear in an airgun. Good lubricants will almost stop mechanical-on-mechanical wear. I've never heard of someone actually shooting out an airgun barrel. And beyond that most things can be made on fairly simple machine tools. *shrug* 

I guess I went through a similar calculus to all this, and settled on the FX Crown as in my opinion the broad parts availability, popularity, and ease of service make it about as future-proof as guns get. If a new pellet becomes all the rage, makes everything else obsolete, someone is going to make a quick-change barrel for the Crown and Impact. That is far from the only option though. A RAW really is a celebration of American manufacturing, and their commitment to supporting the old Theoben rifles is laudable. While some people are still a little sore over that whole thing, I try not to judge given that I really don't know the actual details. Edguns are an acquired taste, but by all accounts are also built to last and easy to work on. I happen to love how they're styled, and have a huge appreciation and respect for Russian engineering in general, but I can see why some guys just aren't into it. There are a few other brands kicking around at this level which are also excellent, worth considering if you care to. Personally though, I'd take the RAW or FX. The RAW is a bit more extravagant, both in price and in manufacture. Their wood is just exquisite, and everything is beautifully done and set up. The FX on the other hand just has broader popularity and is made to be worked on. I went through a similar calculus to all the above myself just a couple months ago and in the end went with the Crown. I wouldn't fault anyone for going in a completely different direction though. There are no wrong answers here, everything is pretty much world class. 

If you want a more powerful. 25, I recommend you consider a RAW or a Cricket from Georgia Airguns with the powertune. I have both and they shoot 60-62 fpe with excellent accuracy.  I don't know if you can squeeze that much power from a Crown. BTW , you can get RAWs, FXs, and Daystates from Ken Hicks at Southern Precision Weapons

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Why do you keep saying this? Youve been told several times they can. Are you trying to push a bias or something?

I know of several members who have gotten 60+fpe with their crowns in .25. (Without sending it away)

Now youve been told again. 

I am in a similar situation, recently retired, own two RAW rifles, a Daystate Regal, and a Steyr, all great rifles. I just bought a Red Wolf HP in .22, haven't received it yet. STO's comments are well taken, but, my anxiety over an electronic rifle was overcome by my curiosity to own one. The RW performance is, I think well proven as state of the art. What the future holds, unknown. User friendly for repair, not hardly. But, there are a lot of owners of the previous generation electronic guns that have had excellent reliability and still love them. When I look around, I am surrounded by electronic gadgets I don't understand, but I use them every day and they rarely break. So, I decided what the heck, take a chance and have some fun with it. Worst case, say it lasts five years and then suffers a major meltdown. I throw the damn thing away and amortize 5 years of cost, or about $500 a year, for the fun I've had with it. Heck, I spend more than that on good bourbon! Not to say my decision is correct, but, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. 

Last May I was in question as to taking up this new hobby. I spent hour surfing the internet, going to the local rifle range and talking to the guys shooting out there. Then I was directed to AOA as source of information. I had the opportunity to walk into the shop and this nice young man (Kip) came out and started talking. Telling me about the hobby that I was about to embark on. 3 hours later I had to run, as I was late for an appointment - He didn't sell or try to sell me anything; just provided information.

As to Utah - I have never dealt with them and have no opinion.

In June I made my mind up: My choices were: Impact X, Daystate - Red Wolf or Wolverine R?

With Daystate and AOA's warrantee I choose to have a rifle that has a 5 year warrantee, with a re-new able 5 year warrantee for life. All you have to do is have the gun gone over by AOA and they warrant it for another 5 years. I know they will charge for the re-new; but I never have to worry about any of the electronics.
Now back to who to talk to: AOA's Kip is a hunter and knows his guns. If you are ever thinking about which gun to get for hunting, provide him with the scenario and I'll bet he can find a solution. Or he will talk your ear off trying to get to one!

If you want a more powerful. 25, I recommend you consider a RAW or a Cricket from Georgia Airguns with the powertune. I have both and they shoot 60-62 fpe with excellent accuracy.  I don't know if you can squeeze that much power from a Crown. BTW , you can get RAWs, FXs, and Daystates from Ken Hicks at Southern Precision Weapons

Click to expand...

Why do you keep saying this? Youve been told several times they can. Are you trying to push a bias or something?

I know of several members who have gotten 60+fpe with their crowns in .25. (Without sending it away)

Now youve been told again.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I guess I just never ran across any posts about it.

A good alternative to the Red Wolf is the Wolverine HP for those not liking electronics.

If you want a more powerful. 25, I recommend you consider a RAW or a Cricket from Georgia Airguns with the powertune. I have both and they shoot 60-62 fpe with excellent accuracy.  I don't know if you can squeeze that much power from a Crown. BTW , you can get RAWs, FXs, and Daystates from Ken Hicks at Southern Precision Weapons

Click to expand...

Why do you keep saying this? Youve been told several times they can. Are you trying to push a bias or something?

I know of several members who have gotten 60+fpe with their crowns in .25. (Without sending it away)

Now youve been told again.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I guess I just never ran across any posts about it.

Click to expand...

No problems, you said basically the same thing 3 days ago. https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/30ft-ilb-177/

Owning RAW, WAR, AA, Daystate, M-rods and quite a few others just recently purchased a new / updated electronics board for the Daystate AIR WOLF.

Wholly cow what an AWESOME gun now ! Can shoot from 4 ft lbs to a tad over 40 ft lbs by changing within the 12 step power setting range.

This in a .20 caliber gun no less ... While an electro action, it is WITHOUT A DOUBT the most flexible gun in the stable now.

I would 2nd the vote on a power tuned Cricket from Georgia Airguns( lifetime service). Next choice Red wolf.

Personally I would go with an Ed Gun R5M .25 long easy to disassemble and clean and work on. IMO