Anyone shot a 22 Nova Freedom or Seneca Aspen? Feedback wanted please...

The seal on the smallest pump piston has failed. Don't force it any further: It won't get better. The symptoms you describe are those that my gun exhibited when my pump failed. You are past solving the problem by additional lubing. I fixed my Seneca Aspen (aka Nova Freedom) pump after online research. There are DIY pump repair posts if you search these forums and elsewhere.

My experience? My do-it-yourself repair seal has outlasted the OEM seal. The new seal may not be tougher than OEM, but I lubed the pump thoroughly during assembly and then oiled more generously after the repair than the manual would suggest. Oil the gun early and often, and generously. If I were oiling a new gun today, I'd probably apply 10 drops immediately, then 2-3 drops every time I pumped the gun (assuming 30 strokes) for the first 250 shots. I'm currently adding 2-3 drops every 100 shots.

Where does the oil go? My barrel fouls worse than any airgun I've owned. I suspect that shoot-through oil keeps that junk in the barrel when otherwise it would blow out. That said, the fouling wipes out easily.

For barrel cleaning, I use a DIY pull-through disposable patch system (you can buy something similar made commercially). The breech end patch loop is 10-15 lb. fishing line. The pull-through cleaning "rod" is common string trimmer line. I used heat shrink tubing to secure a loop of fishing line to the trimmer line. The heat shrink tubing secures the fishing line very securely (tie extra knots to be trapped under the shrunken tubing). Start with smaller patches than seem reasonable: The correct patch will be just a little bigger! The breech chamber on my .22 lets me feed the trimmer line from breech to muzzle to pull a patch, but .177 owners will probably want to insert the patch loop from the muzzle.

Thanks for the advice Airgun-hobbyist

Before the pump began to bind ALL the lubing of the mechanics had been done.; and parts moved smoothly

The points still move smoothly as evidenced by the free movement when the handle is part way open.

I have also been lubing the pump at the lube spot on the piston assembly during pumping.: and when pumping was possible it took place at an easy pace.

Currently the pump handle is offering severe resistance in both directions

It sits inverted in a rifle vise; and requires both hands/arms to pump

The up stroke (opening) wants to kick back when near completion and the second hand is needed to keep the vice from moving,

The down (pumping) stroke feels as if there is already too much pressure in the reservoir.

Two hands are needed to complete the stroke

The gauge reads 1500.

I have been considering opening the pressure relief screw.to see if that what that does for the situation.

I even put an Allen Wrench on it; but chickened out as it was torqued down too hard to open without fear of breaking.



Contact (e-mail) has been made with the retailer;as well as voice ail & e-mail with American Tactical.

As you can imagine this is very disappointing.

Especially considering the gun held pressure overnight before the shooting began; and was a breeze to sight-in.

Let's see what replies come back tomorrow

Thank you, monsterpcp

Your evidence & experience with the rifle are well appreciated.

In fact all pumping and shooting has been stopped awaiting reply from the vendor and from ATI

Since the rifle has been in my hands for fewer than 72 hours getting a replacement seems better than initiating a DIY repair.

I will however follow up on the repair techniques.


When researching the purchase I found a Freedom/Aspen 17 page parts schematic in this forum.

Now I cannot relocate it.

Perhaps someone will point the way



Already have the string cleaner BTW

Had the pump not malfunctioned barrel cleaning would have been done today



Further thought welcome

Thanks for the advice Airgun-hobbyist

Before the pump began to bind ALL the lubing of the mechanics had been done.; and parts moved smoothly

The points still move smoothly as evidenced by the free movement when the handle is part way open.

I have also been lubing the pump at the lube spot on the piston assembly during pumping.: and when pumping was possible it took place at an easy pace.

Currently the pump handle is offering severe resistance in both directions

It sits inverted in a rifle vise; and requires both hands/arms to pump

The up stroke (opening) wants to kick back when near completion and the second hand is needed to keep the vice from moving,

The down (pumping) stroke feels as if there is already too much pressure in the reservoir.

Two hands are needed to complete the stroke

The gauge reads 1500.

I have been considering opening the pressure relief screw.to see if that what that does for the situation.

I even put an Allen Wrench on it; but chickened out as it was torqued down too hard to open without fear of breaking.



Contact (e-mail) has been made with the retailer;as well as voice ail & e-mail with American Tactical.

As you can imagine this is very disappointing.

Especially considering the gun held pressure overnight before the shooting began; and was a breeze to sight-in.

Let's see what replies come back tomorrow

Click to expand...

Don't be afraid to open that air release. It's routine, and not scary at all. The screw and seat are well-engineered, metal to metal, bullet-proof tough. Once cracked open (counter-clockwise), you'll hear the gun hissing for a few seconds as air escapes. The screw need only be opened 1/3 turn to dump the reservoir. When done, snug the screw firmly clockwise, but do not overtighten. A tiny 20 in.-lbs. of torque is enough. This is equivalent to using only your thumb and forefinger to turn a very small screwdriver. FYI, if you were to continue to turn the screw counter-clockwise several turns after opening, the screw would be free (don't lose it). Wipe the screw clean, then put it back in the hole and turn clockwise to seat.

You can always dry fire it to release pressure. This way you can bypass the relief valve if you so wish.

Did you do the lubing of the pump? I'm not talking about the linkage but the pump it self. I'm pretty sure it's past the point where lubing the pump it self will fix the problem as the little 006 o ring in the 3rd stage of the pump is toast. I have the Aspen version of your rifle and found I needed to really lube the pump to get it to pump easily. As far as bleeding the air out of the air reservoir as the monster already said just a 1/4 turn counter clockwise and the air will be completely released. 

 

Thanks, desert-silver

Yes the pump had been lubed as directed in the manual & lubed again while pumping.

Despite that, pumping effort continued to increase to where it is now

It appears as if you and Airgun-hobbyist are in agreement about the problem being with the small internal seal.

Thanks Airgun-hobbyist regrading opening the pressure relief valve; and thanks also Android for the reminder about dry firing until the tank is empty.

My knowledge of springers has me shy away from dry fires.

I know that the PCP is different, but it still seems unnatural



The one response (e-mail) from ATI is "I can have my gunsmith take a look at your Air gun if you would like"

More details as they happen

A gunsmith will have no idea how to work on an air gun. 

Hey DesertSilver

I think Gunsmith is the term AT uses to refer to their in-house technician(s) when communicating with customers.

It's all about talking the talk these days, don't you know.

FYI

The Freedom heads back to AT via FEDEX ground tomorrow

Let us know what they. That is if they let you know 

Here's an update on my Nova Freedom that was returned to ATI in June.

After 6 weeks ATI sent a new in box replacement rifle

Delivered on August 2

I did the usual routine of lubing the pump (as per manual), checking all screws, barrel cleaning (string method) & pressure tests (manual pumping)

The rifle held 2000psi for 12 hours and then 3000psi for 24 hours before any shooting began.

August 7

48 rounds and 150 pumps later (oiling along the way) the pump became so stiff that 2 hands were required to open the handle fully.

This came on kind of suddenly, as pumping was reasonably smooth most of the way

August 8

I depressurized the gun, oiled under no pressure and began the pumping process again

By the time the psi hit 2000 the pumping was becoming difficult and, once again two handed operation was needed

(Can anyone tell me which O ring(s) in the Assembly Instructions/Parts list causes this?)

The gun has been at rest since then



Return authorization requested from ATI

August 13

Just received a Return Authorization

So,the gun goes back for another 6 weeks.

(repair/ replacement at their discretion)

I think that's a bullet I have to bite, as the rifle is still under warranty.

Sooner or later however, I'm going to need to learn how to fix this myself

Ed

It sounds like the little o-ring in the high pressure tube. Mine did this, and then became very easy, and then did not build, or hold pressure. I think you have to replace the o-ring to fix this, but being under warranty, they will continue to send you rifles until one comes in lubed enough. Try taking it apart and cleaning and lubing it. Some owners, that is all it takes. I have to take mine apart, because after thousands of rounds, gallons of silicone oil (kidding), I know I have roached the little o-ring. Look at this thread. Very helpful. GTA.

Re: Nova Freedom Take Apart Thread ;- )

« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2019, 03:57:59 AM »

• Quote

This is a PDF file that Soupyyy has made available via download ... without this picture file I don't think I could have done it. I downloaded it and it is on my computer for further reference. IMHO this is a must have !!!

THANK YOU SOUPYYY ;- )

https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21APXSqWpleX0gbH8&cid=1B7D28328A998C44&id=1B7D28328A998C44%2118230&parId=1B7D28328A998C44%21106&o=OneUp

Here is info on the gasket seal ! ....Again from Soupyyy

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-Green-FKM-O-Ring-Seal-Gasket-2-5mm-CS-Oring-Seal-Washer-7-5-9/32987530138.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dAFf8Jb

Here is another set of How To Photos 
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/stuck-halfway-thru-seneca-aspen-nova-freedom-pump-repair-photos/

Here is another post on trigger adjustment.
https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/power-tuning-nova-freedom-air-rifle/

There is a set of PDF PARTS drawings also some where ...Those to were on a post that Soupyyy responded to I believe.

wll

It’s your 3rd stage piston seal (006 oring) that cause the problem. Easy repair after you do it the first time. The first time is the learning experience. Lol. 

Thanks, Android

Those pictures are so good they are begging me not to send the gun in.

However it could take me a few weeks just to get to the task; and right now I think the warranty rules the day

I've saved the links and down loaded all that I can for future reference.

Thanks, Android

Those pictures are so good they are begging me not to send the gun in.

However it could take me a few weeks just to get to the task; and right now I think the warranty rules the day

I've saved the links and down loaded all that I can for future reference.

Click to expand...

It’s your 3rd stage piston seal (006 oring) that cause the problem. Easy repair after you do it the first time. The first time is the learning experience. Lol. 

Thanks, Butch

I'll look for that in the parts pictures I have

Learning curves are very slippery slope

The slide back down to the bottom is enhanced by the silicone oil

Click to expand...

These are more Nova Freedom goodies.

Expanded view of Nova Freedom – https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=7F5CEC4C63482455!152185&ithint=file%2cxlsx&authkey=!AFb7bNNPKY4GtjY

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AlUkSGNM7Fx_iaR5Vvts008pjga2Ng?e=Hae2Nc

Digital Manual – https://www.americantactical.us/public/files/Manuals/Nova%20Freedom%20Digital%20Op%20Manual.pdf, https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/tutorial-ati-liberty-freedom-strip-stack-pak-video/,.https://donnyfl.com/, https://vimeo.com/260520947

These will probably be helpful. If you need any help with this rifle, Butch is probably the most knowledgeable person available. 

These are more Nova Freedom goodies.

Expanded view of Nova Freedom – https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=7F5CEC4C63482455!152185&ithint=file%2cxlsx&authkey=!AFb7bNNPKY4GtjY
Digital Manual – https://www.americantactical.us/public/files/Manuals/Nova%20Freedom%20Digital%20Op%20Manual.pdf, https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/tutorial-ati-liberty-freedom-strip-stack-pak-video/,.https://donnyfl.com/, https://vimeo.com/260520947

These will probably be helpful. If you need any help with this rifle, Butch is probably the most knowledgeable person available.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Android

invaluable information!!!

Perhaps the info,(links & files)passed thru over the last 2 days could be combined into a Nova Freedom/Seneca Aspen Sticky.

I had the aspen and it had problems with lock up meaning that I could not push the pump handle back down to the gun and had to let all the pressure out to do it. It also took 150 pumps new out of the box to fill it to max pressure. I sent it back and did not buy another due to similar reviews

That being said I did recently picked up a parts gun from American Tactical for a 100 bucks and it is a Nova Freedom. the prior owner returned this gun and it came to me missing a M2x4 screw from the power adjustment knob. After replacing the screw it pumped up to 3000 PSI with only 60 pumps??? Nice. Shoots great and is as accurate as the Nova Liberty and just as quiet.

I may be wrong but it is possible that the aspen has a bigger air tube than the freedom but the pump wont lock up as quickly if its not used as much...at least to my thinking and I use a bottle for the initial fill the give a few pumps every five shots or so. I think it is a better woods gun than the aspen were it is probably better target gun. They both are very accurate and quiet. By I'm 53 now and like 60 pumps way better than 150 out of the box...no pressure in the gun at all. Freedom for me please and for a 100 dollar parts gun v/s 400$...Hell yeah...win win ATI 1-800-290-0065 I got lucky you might too. Hope this helped..Good luck.

I had the same problem with my Aspen but all it took to fix it was a liberal amount of oiling of the pump. Yes, you can get a parts gun from ATI but it is a crap shoot if it pumps at all or holds pressure. By the way, I've had mine since March and after getting silicone oil into the pump like it needs to be it pumps up just fine. 

I had the same problem with my Aspen but all it took to fix it was a liberal amount of oiling of the pump. Yes, you can get a parts gun from ATI but it is a crap shoot if it pumps at all or holds pressure. By the way, I've had mine since March and after getting silicone oil into the pump like it needs to be it pumps up just fine.

Click to expand...

DesertSIlver, hello;

What method did you use to get the pump oiled properly?

Please be as specific as possible

I have read many different ways to do this in forums; however you seem to have proven success.

Thanks

Ed