Anyone own a slayer

Yes, I have a .357 Slayer (right hand action) know five other individuals either on GTA or here at AN that do too.

I've never heard anyone mention shooting anything other than slugs... The bolt has a retracting probe and I think a hollowbase pellet would not seat all the way, covering part of the port in the barrel. Then the skirt would 'blow' and you'd get lousy accuracy.

I'm shooting 148 gr at average 940 FPS and 130gr at 988 FPS. NSA 142gr BTHP @ 953 FPS.

I have had a second one (Left Hand action) on order for 10 months so unless you find a used one.... Be prepared to wait, and wait and wait...........

They are awesome air rifles though, best rifle I own.. I've also got a .357 Pitbull, .357 WAR FLEX pellet rifle, a WAR FLEX+ slug gun, a .357 Texan and a piece of junk Hatsan Hercules .357... The one I shoot 95% of the time is the Slayer because it's the only decent bullpup I've ever shouldered and it is VERY accurate.

 I have been looking hard at the slayer in .452 and have a few questions also if you don't mind. Those are decent speeds but is it adjustable in any way to fine tune it to a given projectile for accuracy? What kind of extreme spread between shot strings on one fill do you get for downrange accuracy? Is there a bell curve there as well?

@Kinetic45 Why'd you order a different hand operated lever? Are you right or left handed with a different eye dominance?

How often do you have to clean the barrel before accuracy drops off, and after cleaning how many shots to season it back in for consistency?

It's adjustable. It has a dwell screw on the side (goes into the valve) that sets the power and the hammer spring adjusts the start of the curve.

I have tuned mine and two other guys rifles for various bullet weights and like any pneumatic airgun, you can get high power first shot and a declining shot curve (usually with high air consumption) OR start off with a lower first shot and a flatter curve.

With a 148gr going for highest power 1st shot I've gotten 989, but the next shots were always way down like 910/920 and third shot was low 800s.

Retuned to start around 945/950 it has a much flatter curve and the first three shots are usually very close together. This is good enough (to me) for a hunting rifle. Rare in my experience to be shooting more shots than that hunting either hogs or deer.

I've tuned for a 130gr and 950 FPS and gotten a nice 6 shot bell curve before it really dropped off.

I don't know anything much about the .452, same gun but different barrel I guess.

I am right handed and right eye dominant- I have a Pitbull 'bullpup' and the RH Slayer and I found with both that shooting in any position except the bench (like offhand) I had to move the rifle too much off my shoulder to reach the bolt and cock it. The Benjamin Bulldog/Pitbull can be changed to either side so I've tried it as both and found that it is more comfortable to keep the trigger hand on the pistol grip and the rifle shouldered and use the left hand to reach up and cock/load. So I ordered my second Slayer as a LH.

Cleaning - wow, that's a LONG discussion and LOTS of disagreement between individuals. Ties into the Pandora's Box of "lubes" on slug guns (pellet rifles are different, they don't foul near as much!)

Here's what I personally think after 50 years if centerfire pistol and rifle shooting and a decade of high powered pneumatic shooting experience. I lube to try to prevent leading/fouling and if I'm at the bench I might use a wet lube / oil (10wt synthetic RadioControl shock oil is popular, search for many discussion on the many lubes used).

BUT, I don't want a messy oily bullet while I'm out hunting in the field. So I use either FinishLine Wax Chain lube with a dusting of Hexagonal Boron Nitride (White Graphite) or Rooster Jacket bullet coating and the HBN. I did not get the accuracy with the powder coated bullets but have gotten better results with diluted/thin Hi-Tek coating.

Unlubed, I've seen cast and swaged bullets lead up a BigBore barrel (.257 to .51) in 50 shots in a rough barrel, 200 in a smooth one. With a good barrel, and maybe polishing/firelapping* and using the right lube : I don't get leading at all in hundreds of shots and keep the accuracy.

My pellet rifles might fire 5000 shots before needing cleaning (I've got a .25 Synrod that has twice that through it and still does not need cleaning and is accurate) but I wipe my BigBore slug guns with a damp patch of Ballistol (50% water / 50% Ballistol) every 100 shots or so and at the end of the days shooting besides the bullet lube.

If I encounter a fouled barrel, I first use a jag, not a slotted tip and using "chemically treated lead removal cloth" (I like the KleenBore Lead Wipeaway) cut a patch and run that TIGHT patch through the bore 10 or 12 times, flip to the other side and do it another 10 or 12 times, back and forth. Wipe the bore with a clean patch to get the residue out, then I use a brush and Ballistol to do the barrel.

I ALSO do this to new to me airguns or ones that I'm cleaning for others that are badly fouled or prone to fouling.

* I coat the nose and sides of either pellets (45 or 50) or slugs with a bit of JB Non-Embedding Bore Cleaner and shoot them. Note this means cleaning the moderator so if it's got felt I take that out first! This is a poor man's bore polishing and does not hurt anything but rifles don't foul as fast after you do this.

@Kinetic45 Thanks for the in depth response. I assumed it was fairly tunable, but there's very little known about hem because they're so little of them in circulation. I understand what your thoughts were on the lefty model now. It makes sense and I've heard a similar story from the left-handed EBR competitor's using the Impact's. With the new Mini coming out when do you suppose that the .452's on order will be ready for delivery?

On seasoning: I've had to shoot an whole tin of pellets to season a bore but with slugs mostly less than 8 to 10. 

My .357 and .457 Texans only take 3 to 5 shots in a larger group then they settle in and get tighter. My polished bore Slayer will shoot off somewhat the first shot after cleaning then is right on. Would you say that it's 'seasoned'? This is a 1/2 MOA rifle with the right slug, sized right and tuned for it [and it's the NOE 358-152 that mine does best with http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=35_590] second best is the http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35_578&products_id=5488

If I'm using store bought slugs, the NSA 142 is good too https://nielsenspecialtyammo.com/products/142-grain-hollow-point-boattail-air-rifle-pellets-35-caliber-air-gun-slug-swaged

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On getting a Slayer, which IS an amazing airgun (I've taken it completely apart to replace the o-rings and the engineering and quality of manufacture is unmatched) I am sad to say that there's problems. I ordered my second .357 on January 6th 2019 and still have not received it. Gotten multiple promises that "it's almost done" but otherwise no new rifle. 

Then while I have been waiting and waiting, they introduced the .452 and the Mini......... what does that tell you on how soon the new .452 will actually go into production?

Still, the one I've got is my #1 rifle! If you can wait a year, it is the ultimate and you might get rid of any others you own as unnecessary because it handles and shoots so well (power and accuracy). Note that generally I'm not a fan of bullpup air rifles but the Slayer just balances so well in the hands it's in a class by itself. And this is not a delicate air rifle, it's built strong (but NOT heavy amazingly)

@Kinetic45 It is probably more normal than not to have to wait for a quality hand built rifle, even at the expense of being bumped in the line because of the new production model's. (Which is my understanding what seems to be taking priority.) Why not go with the new .452 so you have one of each and have the .357 reconfigured to a lefty?

@Kinetic45 It is probably more normal than not to have to wait for a quality hand built rifle, even at the expense of being bumped in the line because of the new production model's. (Which is my understanding what seems to be taking priority.) Why not go with the new .452 so you have one of each and have the .357 reconfigured to a lefty?

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Althought the rifle is great, the AAA business practices leave it's future in doubt. These are not supposed to be 'hand built', they are supposed to be production. I've got some experience in the kitplane/homebuilt/experimental aircraft field where some companies that could not make their commitments closed their doors and left their customers who had prepaid with nothing.

Right now I've paid a couple Grand for another rifle but the longer I wait the more I begin to wonder if AAA will fold. I don't know of anyone being shipped any .452s either, just test/promo guns out there so there is no certainly that anyone is getting anything.

Honestly, I would say wait to order one until they start shipping them out the door. I have not cancelled because I'm still hoping.

On a final note, should not earlier customers get priority? In what other industry would people who paid for something get put aside for newer people and that be OK?

So there's positive and negative things for me about Slayers. Glad I've got one but wonder if that many more people will be getting one.

Update: Tom has talked to me and we had a good discussion. He mentioned how the California power outages have interfered with his shop's production. (FYI - I think this is a classic example of decades of liberal/governmental interfearance in the companies operation that finally came back to bite the citizens, if you dig into the details of why the maintenance was not done - the state required the company to divert maintenance funds to social justice agenda. AND vegetation clearing was blocked by the 'tree huggers' so fuel for the fires built up)

Interestingly, he explained he is selling a lot of the small bore stuff and de-emphasizing the big bore as sales were just not there.

I told him the Slayer was amazing and the best air rifle I've ever owned in 35 years of BigBore pneumatics and that over 30 people had told me they would buy one but did not because of the lack of availability. So slow sales was not due to lack of interest but due to people not trying to buy something they thought they would not get. Maybe the new sales agreement with Airguns of Arizona will stabilize things.

Tom told me about some improvements that will make the Slayer even better too. I will definitely upgrade mine as he releases them. [An even better valve for example]

I want Tom and AAA to do well and keep making these amazing machines....

But I will always be honest about anything positive and negative too. Constructive criticism should be used to improve and that's what I have always tried to do in this situation.

I'm glad Tom has cleared up some things, I appreciate it very much.

Awesome to hear that!

Disappointed UPDATE:

With sadness, I am giving up on getting a .357 Slayer from Tom Costan / American Air Arms and am going to attempt to get a refund. He lied to me for the last time on November 4, 2019 when he told me he was shipping out nine rifles that day and one of them was mine. He said I would be getting a tracking number email on Tuesday and as of a week later I have gotten nothing, AGAIN.

I am filing complaints with PayPal to recover my money, contacting the California State Attorney Generals office and a few other places. The BBB is pretty toothless but I will file there too. I'm also going to be contacting Airguns of Arizona about if they are aware of the customers waiting long times for rifles they paid for.

Ton had led me on repeatedly with promises for more than six months that my rifle is shipping in a week (his standard thing I guess, someone like me waited four months, then contacted him each month to check in progress and he says "It's finished and will be testing this week" usually). I ordered it (paid in full) January 6th 2919 and here it is November and his latest unfulfilled promise is the last straw.

I TOLD him last Monday that I did not want phony promises, that he should not tell me anything unless it was guaranteed and then he went and did it AGAIN!!!!!

I HAVE BEEN STRUNG ALONG LONG ENOUGH AND JUST WANT MY MONEY BACK

I don't know what to say to this change of events for you. It seems like it is a raw deal for sure. Because he has said it would be finished and shipping out this past week, though you don't believe in him any longer, why not find out why it hasn't shipped versus filing a bunch of paperwork that may keep your money bound up for even longer get than it already has. I say this because the finished rifle may truly be being shipped. He has a big reputation within the airgun community (and some of it is moving at a snail's pace it seems) and a lot at stake, so it hardly seems likely that he would screw over a bunch of people with tens of thousands of dollars and jail time on the line.

You waited this long I don't see why not wait longer. I've been waiting since Feb for an EVOL. Tom contacted me on his own recently making sure I still wanted the standard .22 version. Tom also isn't doing pre-orders anymore for guns and AOA won't get guns until there done and then they can be sold from what I've seen. Sounds like to get rid of the long waits.

I've been waiting since Jan 19th for a Slayer T-Rex .45 with a polished barrel, the last thing I'm going to do is bother him with emails and make the wait even longer. It took a long time to get my .357 Slayer a couple of years ago also, but it eventually showed up. Parts needed for the .357 Slayer have been sent immediately when requested. Regards, Tom

This is a quote of my reply to someone on GTA about this who said I should just wait forever:

"Oh yes, I have MULTIPLE emails saying my rifle was either "almost done in a week or so, so I would be getting it soon" or so OR emails saying my rifle "was finished and just needed tuning". One said it was almost finished and he would be going to EBR and would ship it to me the following week. I waited till the 4th to contact him by phone and that's when he told me it was shipping that day!

The last straw was telling me it was shipping and then nothing.... I wonder if ANYONE is getting a Slayer? Where's the happy owners? Has Tom stopped producing and it's all a delaying action?

The thing is, this IS what goes on when a business is failing and I just don't want other people to be throwing their money away with the expectation they will "eventually" get theirs if they just patiently wait long enough.

'The King has no clothes' and someone has to say it.

Tom could have contacted me last week on Thursday when I sent him an email explaining I was fed up and he didn't. Or sent me a tracking number. Silence is not a good business plan."

Ever noticed that his website has an email address and a phone but no physical address? Sometimes people do that for privacy but sometimes it's because they want to be able to avoid irate customers and THEY EXPECT IRATE CUSTOMERS.

BUT, if you have a business you have to get a license and tax number and THAT INFORMATION IS PUBLIC if you know how things work.

And to serve legal papers on someone you have to have an address....

So...........

https://businesssearch.sos.ca.gov/CBS/SearchResults?filing=&SearchType=CORP&SearchCriteria=American+air+arms&SearchSubType=Keyword

Tap on the "Entity Name" item on that page and there you go. And below that is a PDF of his application signed by him.

Public record.

NOTE: Business and people who deal fairly with their customers DON'T HAVE irate customers so don't have to try to hide anything and are transparent.

All I wanted was a fair deal and no false promises.

I warned him about that and he evidently was not listening.

Good man. Someone needs to speak up.

Simply not any way to run a "business". They do seem to be accepting orders and looking at fb one might think even less informed over seas folks might (try to) order -$1,500+ up front??- one.

Small as the airgun world is it would seem likely the maker has heard of this post, you say you've all the emails. Personally I thought you might get a response here but..... .

In case it effects anyone ever, do NOT wait 1 year and a day to think about filing anything.



Hopefully this morning you get up walk out the front door and trip over your new rifle.

Please keep us posted either way.



John

Have a .357 Slayer on order since February. Tom said it would ship in July and have heard nothing since. With my work being busy I have almost forgot about it. Will probably ask for a refund as I bought a .45 Texan SS as my hunting trip date got closer and realizing that AAA was not going to ship my rifle.

WARNING to those who have ordered or or are going to:

Because it had been more than 180 days since the order / payment through PayPal they are not going to allow a Dispute or Claim.

Is Tom using the delay built into the PayPal system to protect himself? If he always gets past the 180 days than it becomes more difficult and you now have to go through a more complex legal process.

I go back and forth between here and Gateway to Airguns and here is something I posted there and am quoting here

I have been getting PMs from others who have had a Slayer on order for a while.... several here (4) and some on AirgunNation (3).

I find your stories interesting, you guys should get together now I'm out of it.

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