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Anyone else tired of Slug videos??

Forums General Discussion Anyone else tired of Slug videos??

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    toku58
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +26

    I've been watching pellet gun videos for years now. Lately I've been finding nothing but Slug videos.

    I get the craze of more Power.
    I like the fact that these guns are capable of shooting at such high power.

    BUT!
    It's like seeing doves being shot with a 30-30 or 308.  Just doesn't seem sporting to overkill.  It's like why not take an AR to shoot sparrows?

    I enjoy the "Airgun Show" Matt Manning because he is a purist pellet gunner.
    After all that's why I shoot these guns.

    Maybe it's just me??
    I do miss Matt Dubber making "Pellet Gun" videos. Taking out a SpurWing with a pellet is much more impressive than a sparrow with a 26 gr. Slug.  The skill involved in the efficient use of a Pellet is why I liked these Pellet guns. If it's becoming about more power? I might as well just use my 6.5 creedmoor and shoot doves.

    Not saying I don't appreciate the video of what these guns can do.

    But it would be nice to see the Youtuber's go back to their roots once in a while and do pellet videos.

     

     

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    JamesD.
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +53

    I personally never liked unboxing videos but that's just me.

     I do get what you're saying though. I'm personally not interested in seeing any kills but I will be filming my .257 Scandalous out to 400 at the least with both Lilja barrels. That's what I think most want to see. Real accuracy at distances. 
    If someone makes a good hit on a Varmint at 200-??? Yards yeah I want to see but birds at close range aren't my thing.

    I was amazed to see slug expansion videos though.

    Edit: Nailed a Starling at 115/89/19* angle up with Rapid MKII and JSB 18.13's on 4x two days ago. I don't film those things though

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by JamesD..
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    JamesD.
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    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +53

    And I want to add I only got the Scandalous because I wanted to show John Bowman's build accuracy potential. Once I film it it's going in the vault. I'm happy with pellets from springers around my yard as I have to go down the road or to a farm to shoot slugs. 
      To me they're not worth shooting unless it's 200+. Yeah I don't go past 100 until I'm getting well under 1moa at 100 but again that's just me. Lots of friends are shooting only slugs out at targets within 100. 
      I'm thinking about having Rapid set up for high flow no choke for 17.5 NSA bulk. IDK if I want to have a 55 yard hole in hole pellet shooter chopped but if it can do that at 100 with tiny slugs in a little wind? I'm tempted to see.

      It's not about power to me as I don't truly hunt anymore. It's just about reading wind and breathing, being one with rig & environment.

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by JamesD..
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    mercado
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +14

    Yup .. I don't really care anymore to see them.. n the original long range shooter..is the guy from middle east..he started with crickets,  then Vulcan 2 – now he represents those brands in that country way before Matt..his vids where not that popular because they dont have subtitle  Arab only…in you tube now every one wants to be a sponsored air gunner…😁..go n get a job..

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by mercado.
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    JamesD.
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +53

    Hey buddy! You can't forget Yrrah in Oz! He didn't waste time on YouTube but was a journal of information on long range pellets and testing.
    If we're still only talking pellets & long range.

     If slugs, first guy I remember posting was Roachcreek Charlie hitting the 12oz can at, what was it? 615 yards with his Scandalous or Condor? Maybe he'll chime in. 

     

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    dizzums
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +12

    what it is mostly is the companies selling high end guns promoting them ..most of the guns 'normal' people use (lol) wont shoot slugs fast enough to be effective and in real world scenarios theyre not gaining much – mostly shooting targets at long range .. thats not why im into airguns myself, dont mind that people do get into that, but its not everything .. the worst thing imo is they promote the idea that you need a 3k$ gun to be effective lol .. i'll outshoot them any day of the week with my marauder in 'my' woods, yes i will .. bring your 'swugs' and shiney 3k$ gun so i can teach you a lesson lol …

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    JimD
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +3

    I have pretty much decided that my Marauder will shoot pellets.  FX 25.4 grain or JSB King Heavies.  Either shoot into 1/4 inch holes at 33 yards (the limit in my back yard).  I tried JSB Knockouts and H&N of a similar weight yesterday and both shot poorly.  Velocity was only a few feet per second less than the heavies.  But if they are not accurate what is the point?  Maybe I could change the hammer spring setting and get them to shoot.

    But my other issue is I've put together the trajectory for both and the drop, within 100 yards, is quite similar.  Only wind drift is significantly different.  Slugs are about half of pellets.  That would be nice but not if the accuracy is not there.  

    My other issue is the penetration is not nearly what domed pellets of a similar weight will do.  I tested in wet paper today and the two 34 grain slugs penetrated like mid weight 22 pellets.  Much less than even the 25.4 grain domed pellets.  The expansion was impressive but I knock squirrels out of trees easily with 22 caliber domed pellets.  So why do I need to make holes bigger than 25 caliber?  With more penetration I can take bigger animals with a well placed shot.  With shallow but big holes I can only shoot the same small animals the 22 takes well.  

    Maybe if our woods were such that I took long shots I would think differently.  But 50 yards is a long way in the woods of SC.  Clearly pellets are fine at 50 yards.  

     

     

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    Kevin23
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +6

    Sounds like the fishing world. Fly fishermen hate spinning fishermen because their methods are too good and not fair for the fish, and they go against the "pure" form of fly fishing.

    Your statement "It's like seeing doves being shot with a 30-30 or 308.  Just doesn't seem sporting to overkill" There is no such thing as overkill or sporting in hunting, as long as you don't ruin the edible meat on an animal. There is no "sporting" when it comes to killing something, you do it the fastest and most humane way possible as that is the ethics and morals of hunting. Often these birds you see in videos are being shot for pest or control of non native species and not food, doves would be the exception. There is nothing sporting about wounding a bird or having one fly off 20 yards to bleed out and die slowly. Instant death is the best death. 

    In my opinion you are seeing more slug stuff because that is the future of airgunning. The hunting world, and long range target shooting. Will always be pellets as the standard for most competition, but there is a reason every modern firearm shoots a bullet and not a badminton birdie… It's evolution of the sport, at this point take it or leave it but that's where the sport is going. 

    I shoot slugs for hunting and pest control, like I said it kills way more effectively and that is best for the animal I'm shooting. I dont target shoot much, mostly just tuning and practicing so I shoot slugs there too. 

     

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    Kevin23
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +6

    JimD

    I have pretty much decided that my Marauder will shoot pellets.  FX 25.4 grain or JSB King Heavies.  Either shoot into 1/4 inch holes at 33 yards (the limit in my back yard).  I tried JSB Knockouts and H&N of a similar weight yesterday and both shot poorly.  Velocity was only a few feet per second less than the heavies.  But if they are not accurate what is the point?  Maybe I could change the hammer spring setting and get them to shoot.

    But my other issue is I've put together the trajectory for both and the drop, within 100 yards, is quite similar.  Only wind drift is significantly different.  Slugs are about half of pellets.  That would be nice but not if the accuracy is not there.  

    My other issue is the penetration is not nearly what domed pellets of a similar weight will do.  I tested in wet paper today and the two 34 grain slugs penetrated like mid weight 22 pellets.  Much less than even the 25.4 grain domed pellets.  The expansion was impressive but I knock squirrels out of trees easily with 22 caliber domed pellets.  So why do I need to make holes bigger than 25 caliber?  With more penetration I can take bigger animals with a well placed shot.  With shallow but big holes I can only shoot the same small animals the 22 takes well.  

    Maybe if our woods were such that I took long shots I would think differently.  But 50 yards is a long way in the woods of SC.  Clearly pellets are fine at 50 yards.  

     

     

    I think the main issue people have with 25 cal is that the JSB king heavys dont shoot well at 100 yards, most people cant get good hunting accuracy past 50yds let alone target accuracy… thats why when Ted won EBR with his 25 cal shooting the heavies everyone was in disbelief.. he said he worked for thousands of hours to get his gun to shoot them well but the BC was higher than the 30cal so that helped him when shooting in the wind. But they are basically a round nose slug disguised as a pellet, that's why everyone wanted to shoot them pre-slug but only one person was really able to figure it out it seems. 

    In regards to penetration and squirrels? That is meaningless, as an avid squirrel hunter myself.. we actually want the exact opposite. It takes nothing to penetrate a squirrels head, a 177 walmart gun will do it at 50yds. We want damage done so that squirrel is incapacitated and instantly dead even with a slightly off shot that misses the brain and hits the jaw or neck. That is why we shot polymags and hades pre-slug, but slugs are where its at for squirrels. You want that ammo to go into its head and dump as much energy as possible before it goes back out the other side.. in a perfect world it would not go out the other side, but that's just not possible. Basically, without being too graphic you want his lights to go out instantly and be nothing left of his thinking machine vs just putting a 0.25" hole though his head. I had several that I shot with 18.13gr JSB that needed a finishing shot, or they fell and ran around for a few seconds while they expired all because I missed the brain and hit the front of the skull, back of the jaw, or neck.. we are talking missing by less than a 1/2" in the woods.. it happens. I switched to NSA slugs and every squirrel I've shot has instantly been dead, just fell from the tree like a rock or stuck to the tree dead for 5-10 seconds then fell, just like shooting a .22lr. 

     

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    toku58
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +26

    Kevin23

    Sounds like the fishing world. Fly fishermen hate spinning fishermen because their methods are too good and not fair for the fish, and they go against the "pure" form of fly fishing.

    Your statement "It's like seeing doves being shot with a 30-30 or 308.  Just doesn't seem sporting to overkill" There is no such thing as overkill or sporting in hunting, as long as you don't ruin the edible meat on an animal. There is no "sporting" when it comes to killing something, you do it the fastest and most humane way possible as that is the ethics and morals of hunting. Often these birds you see in videos are being shot for pest or control of non native species and not food, doves would be the exception. There is nothing sporting about wounding a bird or having one fly off 20 yards to bleed out and die slowly. Instant death is the best death. 

    In my opinion you are seeing more slug stuff because that is the future of airgunning. The hunting world, and long range target shooting. Will always be pellets as the standard for most competition, but there is a reason every modern firearm shoots a bullet and not a badminton birdie… It's evolution of the sport, at this point take it or leave it but that's where the sport is going. 

    I shoot slugs for hunting and pest control, like I said it kills way more effectively and that is best for the animal I'm shooting. I dont target shoot much, mostly just tuning and practicing so I shoot slugs there too. 

     

    I think you missed my point.
    It's like the UK vs. The US. 
    US is more power and ensure you kill what ever you're shooting!
    UK is Sub 12 ftlb. requires skill and precise shot placement to ensure you kill what ever you're shooting.

    I view air rifles as silent precision tool to accomplish a task.
    If all it was is about dispatching the prey? Like I said I can take out my 6.5 and ensure it doesn't fly off.

    Why do Bow hunters use bows when they can just get a high power rifle to do the same job?

    My point is we are losing the "Pellet" gun aspect of airguns.

    Like I said I like the fact that if needed I can crank up my Impact to sling Slugs.

    But lately all the Airgun videos seems to be jumping on the slug bandwagon.  I'm just advocating for a balance of both.

    If I see a guy shoot a dove at 80yrds using a pellet? I'm like wow "Nice shot"!
    If he does it with a slug? Not so impressed!
    I'm sure they don't allow slugs to compete with pellets at the competitions. And there is a valid reason why!

     

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    Kevin23
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +6

    toku58

    Kevin23

    Sounds like the fishing world. Fly fishermen hate spinning fishermen because their methods are too good and not fair for the fish, and they go against the "pure" form of fly fishing.

    Your statement "It's like seeing doves being shot with a 30-30 or 308.  Just doesn't seem sporting to overkill" There is no such thing as overkill or sporting in hunting, as long as you don't ruin the edible meat on an animal. There is no "sporting" when it comes to killing something, you do it the fastest and most humane way possible as that is the ethics and morals of hunting. Often these birds you see in videos are being shot for pest or control of non native species and not food, doves would be the exception. There is nothing sporting about wounding a bird or having one fly off 20 yards to bleed out and die slowly. Instant death is the best death. 

    In my opinion you are seeing more slug stuff because that is the future of airgunning. The hunting world, and long range target shooting. Will always be pellets as the standard for most competition, but there is a reason every modern firearm shoots a bullet and not a badminton birdie… It's evolution of the sport, at this point take it or leave it but that's where the sport is going. 

    I shoot slugs for hunting and pest control, like I said it kills way more effectively and that is best for the animal I'm shooting. I dont target shoot much, mostly just tuning and practicing so I shoot slugs there too. 

     

    I think you missed my point.
    It's like the UK vs. The US. 
    US is more power and ensure you kill what ever you're shooting!
    UK is Sub 12 ftlb. requires skill and precise shot placement to ensure you kill what ever you're shooting.

    I view air rifles as silent precision tool to accomplish a task.
    If all it was is about dispatching the prey? Like I said I can take out my 6.5 and ensure it doesn't fly off.

    Why do Bow hunters use bows when they can just get a high power rifle to do the same job?

    My point is we are losing the "Pellet" gun aspect of airguns.

    Like I said I like the fact that if needed I can crank up my Impact to sling Slugs.

    But lately all the Airgun videos seems to be jumping on the slug bandwagon.  I'm just advocating for a balance of both.

    If I see a guy shoot a dove at 80yrds using a pellet? I'm like wow "Nice shot"!
    If he does it with a slug? Not so impressed!
    I'm sure they don't allow slugs to compete with pellets at the competitions. And there is a valid reason why!

     

    I would offer the question of why do bow hunters use $1000+ compound bows with $30 carbon arrows and $15 expandable broadheads? Why not stay with the traditional longbow with wooden arrow shafts and steel hunting tips and use precision to kill the game? Progression of the sport and quicker more humane kills is the answer I would submit. I would think the comparison between air rifles and firearms would be very similar to archery vs firearms. 

    The last statement, what if the guy showing the video told you it took him 10 shots to kill a dove at 80 yards, and 3 out of those 10 hit doves and they flew off wounded first. How would you feel about that? Still impressed and congratulating of him for making the kill shot? Ever watch Aaron Cantrell? He is a pellet man and he shows ALL the shots, you'll see a lot of birds flying off crippled even at 20 yards. I know Matt Dubber talked about this in one of his videos, why he only shoots slugs now is because of the wounded birds with pellets at long range. Ted Beir talked in one of his videos about how he shot a rabbit with an underpowered gun when he was a kid and had to watch it suffer before he could finish it off and how it still haunts him as an adult. Watching ONE bird fly off or squirrel run around a tree that I have crippled makes me absolutely sick to my stomach, this is what people are trying to avoid and why you are seeing more and more slug stuff… its just a better tool for the job. 

    Now, the competition part. There are open competitions that allow slugs, and I would very much put money down that within 2-3 years there will be an almost even split of pellet vs slug divisions in major long range bench shooting competitions. Definitely not Olympic or national/world competition, but things like pyramyd air and EBR and RMAC. The last RMAC did you watch some of the behind the scenes videos? I do believe a bunch of the guys took some guns and went slugging rockchucks. Maybe that was two competitions ago. You would think that some of the best shots around would choose the best ammo for the job, dont believe there were any 22 cal JSB diabolos and precision shooting involved but I could be wrong. 

     

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by Kevin23.
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    Gerry52
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +31

    @kevin23

    "I think the main issue people have with 25 cal is that the JSB king heavys dont shoot well at 100 yards, most people cant get good hunting accuracy past 50yds let alone target accuracy… "

    I, nor the people I shoot & hunt with have ANY problems getting accuracy @ 100 yds, let alone 50 yds. It took time & practice but I don't think one can blame it on the pellets. 

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by Gerry52.
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    toku58
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +26

    Kevin23

    toku58

    Kevin23

    Sounds like the fishing world. Fly fishermen hate spinning fishermen because their methods are too good and not fair for the fish, and they go against the "pure" form of fly fishing.

    Your statement "It's like seeing doves being shot with a 30-30 or 308.  Just doesn't seem sporting to overkill" There is no such thing as overkill or sporting in hunting, as long as you don't ruin the edible meat on an animal. There is no "sporting" when it comes to killing something, you do it the fastest and most humane way possible as that is the ethics and morals of hunting. Often these birds you see in videos are being shot for pest or control of non native species and not food, doves would be the exception. There is nothing sporting about wounding a bird or having one fly off 20 yards to bleed out and die slowly. Instant death is the best death. 

    In my opinion you are seeing more slug stuff because that is the future of airgunning. The hunting world, and long range target shooting. Will always be pellets as the standard for most competition, but there is a reason every modern firearm shoots a bullet and not a badminton birdie… It's evolution of the sport, at this point take it or leave it but that's where the sport is going. 

    I shoot slugs for hunting and pest control, like I said it kills way more effectively and that is best for the animal I'm shooting. I dont target shoot much, mostly just tuning and practicing so I shoot slugs there too. 

     

    I think you missed my point.
    It's like the UK vs. The US. 
    US is more power and ensure you kill what ever you're shooting!
    UK is Sub 12 ftlb. requires skill and precise shot placement to ensure you kill what ever you're shooting.

    I view air rifles as silent precision tool to accomplish a task.
    If all it was is about dispatching the prey? Like I said I can take out my 6.5 and ensure it doesn't fly off.

    Why do Bow hunters use bows when they can just get a high power rifle to do the same job?

    My point is we are losing the "Pellet" gun aspect of airguns.

    Like I said I like the fact that if needed I can crank up my Impact to sling Slugs.

    But lately all the Airgun videos seems to be jumping on the slug bandwagon.  I'm just advocating for a balance of both.

    If I see a guy shoot a dove at 80yrds using a pellet? I'm like wow "Nice shot"!
    If he does it with a slug? Not so impressed!
    I'm sure they don't allow slugs to compete with pellets at the competitions. And there is a valid reason why!

     

    I would offer the question of why do bow hunters use $1000+ compound bows with $30 carbon arrows and $15 expandable broadheads? Why not stay with the traditional longbow with wooden arrow shafts and steel hunting tips and use precision to kill the game? Progression of the sport and quicker more humane kills is the answer I would submit. I would think the comparison between air rifles and firearms would be very similar to archery vs firearms. 

    The last statement, what if the guy showing the video told you it took him 10 shots to kill a dove at 80 yards, and 3 out of those 10 hit doves and they flew off wounded first. How would you feel about that? Still impressed and congratulating of him for making the kill shot? Ever watch Aaron Cantrell? He is a pellet man and he shows ALL the shots, you'll see a lot of birds flying off crippled even at 20 yards. I know Matt Dubber talked about this in one of his videos, why he only shoots slugs now is because of the wounded birds with pellets at long range. Ted Beir talked in one of his videos about how he shot a rabbit with an underpowered gun when he was a kid and had to watch it suffer before he could finish it off and how it still haunts him as an adult. Watching ONE bird fly off or squirrel run around a tree that I have crippled makes me absolutely sick to my stomach, this is what people are trying to avoid and why you are seeing more and more slug stuff… its just a better tool for the job. 

    Now, the competition part. There are open competitions that allow slugs, and I would very much put money down that within 2-3 years there will be an almost even split of pellet vs slug divisions in major long range bench shooting competitions. Definitely not Olympic or national/world competition, but things like pyramyd air and EBR and RMAC. The last RMAC did you watch some of the behind the scenes videos? I do believe a bunch of the guys took some guns and went slugging rockchucks. Maybe that was two competitions ago. You would think that some of the best shots around would choose the best ammo for the job, dont believe there were any 22 cal JSB diabolos and precision shooting involved but I could be wrong. 

     

    Again you've seem to have missed the point!

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    Odoyle
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +164

    Couple of solutions might be to hook somebody such as QBALL with a scope cam.

    I'm not sure this slug pellet argument can be won with the slug craze lately.

    Even the Daystate Howler 22 slugs are pretty unbelievable shooting out of a 22 Impact. I dont normally like wasting slugs by shooting them closer than 100 yards though.

    For everyone who don't own the Corbin (NSA) dies and press to make you own slugs, I highly recommend giving the Daystate Howlers a try, they seem superior in accuracy compared to the NSA versions (Also made by NSA). Even the FX Hybrids shoot good in many guns too and JSB Knockouts.

     

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    Maineiac
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +32

    It’s business. The money is in growth markets so that’s where the manufacturers are investing their R&D and marketing dollars. Slugs were popularized by Matt Dubber on YouTube and everyone’s getting on the bandwagon it seems.

    There’s lots of us who don’t live in South Africa, Utah, or Arizona where there’s wide open spaces to shoot so pellets will always be around for people who prefer quiet and don’t need max penetration at extreme range.

     

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    eelect
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +3

    Gerry52

    "I think the main issue people have with 25 cal is that the JSB king heavys dont shoot well at 100 yards, most people cant get good hunting accuracy past 50yds let alone target accuracy… "

    I, nor the people I shoot & hunt with have ANY problems getting accuracy @ 100 yds, let alone 50 yds. It took time & practice but I don't think one can blame it on the pellets. 

     

    I absolutely love my 2 25 cal guns. Taking pigeons with 25 cal slug is much more humane. No rocket science. I can do moa at 100 yards in no wind with pellets. It's easier to do with slugs though. I pest on dairy farms so you pick the best tool for the job

     

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    toku58
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +26

    Maineiac

    It’s business. The money is in growth markets so that’s where the manufacturers are investing their R&D and marketing dollars. Slugs were popularized by Matt Dubber on YouTube and everyone’s getting on the bandwagon it seems.

    There’s lots of us who don’t live in South Africa, Utah, or Arizona where there’s wide open spaces to shoot so pellets will always be around for people who prefer quiet and don’t need max penetration at extreme range.

     

    I 100% agree!  I do believe that slugs have their place in our community. Like hunting Hogs, or Coyotes.  That's why I own slug liners, slug power kits and a ton of slugs.

    Not a sparrow being shot with a Slug. (It's like watching a cockroach being hit with a sledge hammer)

    I guess it's been Slug overload lately on Youtube.  I was just wondering if I'm the only one who's noticed this?

    I just wish they would still make pellet hunting videos.

    I find myself searching older videos. 
    Who knows? If I can get approval permissions here in my area for pest control, I might start making videos to fill that gap. :)  I just need to figure out the video editing thing? LMAO!

     

     

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by toku58.
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