ALPHA 6 Scope On HW97 12fps Springer?

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Problem seems to be some people think they know more about a product than the maker's do. If you think that no one in the R&D dept. knows what a springer is you would be miles off the mark. Call and ask to speak to someone there and see what the answer is! Springer rated does not mean you will never have a problem it means the scopes are built with the unique recoil in mind whereas most scopes are not. Do a bit of research and find many instances of guys ruining non piston rated scopes in a few tins or substantially less than that or have a scope constantly being "off". Will there be problems with piston rated scopes of course there will at some point. If something has moving parts at some point there is going to be a problem. Will there be a big difference on average of a well known rated scope vs a non rated scope, most certainly or the "rated" company's would be out of business and top rated shooters would not be using them to begin with.
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+1. Not unheard of to get pretty much anything you might buy bad out of the box or fails not long after. Watched AGN long enough to know there's a lot of Hawke haters here but I'm not one. I have 7 Airmax scopes, 6 of those mounted on springers ranging anywhere from 6 to 20 fpe and have yet to have a problem with any of them.


 
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Problem seems to be some people think they know more about a product than the maker's do. If you think that no one in the R&D dept. knows what a springer is you would be miles off the mark. Call and ask to speak to someone there and see what the answer is! Springer rated does not mean you will never have a problem it means the scopes are built with the unique recoil in mind whereas most scopes are not. Do a bit of research and find many instances of guys ruining non piston rated scopes in a few tins or substantially less than that or have a scope constantly being "off". Will there be problems with piston rated scopes of course there will at some point. If something has moving parts at some point there is going to be a problem. Will there be a big difference on average of a well known rated scope vs a non rated scope, most certainly or the "rated" company's would be out of business and top rated shooters would not be using them to begin with.
Click to expand...

+1. Not unheard of to get pretty much anything you might buy bad out of the box or fails not long after. Watched AGN long enough to know there's a lot of Hawke haters here but I'm not one. I have 7 Airmax scopes, 6 of those mounted on springers ranging anywhere from 6 to 20 fpe and have yet to have a problem with any of them.

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Im a Hawke hater because I had problems with two of their scopes, and got reamed by their warranty department both times. 

Of course you love yours, they are working! 


 
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Personally, I consider pretty much any scope "springer rated" and just have at it. But, I don't have any harsh shooting Magnums either so keep that in mind. 

Funny, the ONLY scope I've had serious mechanical issues with was an Airmax. Biggest pile of crap I ever put on an airgun. The AO shifted the POI all over, turret adjustments would stick, and finally wouldn't hold zero. Sent it back to Hawke, they told me it was fine and just sent it back. In the trash, and I'll never own another Hawke. Was never impressed with their glass anyway, and certainly not their warranty. 

My point is, most scope manufacturers don't have any idea about a spring piston airgun. So their claims of "springer rated" may or may not be pulled out of thin air, and I wouldn't count on them to back it up. 

My advice, buy a scope, any scope, mount it, if it breaks send it back and tell them it was on a .308 Ruger. 

My opinion is if a scope breaks on a 12fpe HW97K, it's not a very good scope anyhow.
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Much of the issues people have with scopes is they over adjust the windage or elevation dials. If you take a zeroed scope and have to run the adjustment dial near the end of travel you lose internal spring tension on the erector tube. Erector tube spring tension is needed to hold the tube in position shot after shot. When you adjust to far in any direction the spring becomes loose thereby allowing the erector tube to shift. Result, change in POI. The less amount of adjustment you make on a mechanically zeroed scope the better off you are.
 
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A lot of issues are from not properly lapping the rings whenever needed or overtightening them or from using shims though many "swear" it doesn't hurt their scope.

Best to lap the rings as a habit and optically center the scope at optimum zero point (your most common distance you typically shoot at).

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/hawke-sw-tact-issue-resolved/

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/scope-issue/

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/problems-with-yet-another-hawke-scope/

The glass on the H7 Frontiers are really clear and in fact the clearest Chinese made scopes I have to date. I would push them if they ever go on sale.
 
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Personally, I consider pretty much any scope "springer rated" and just have at it. But, I don't have any harsh shooting Magnums either so keep that in mind. 

Funny, the ONLY scope I've had serious mechanical issues with was an Airmax. Biggest pile of crap I ever put on an airgun. The AO shifted the POI all over, turret adjustments would stick, and finally wouldn't hold zero. Sent it back to Hawke, they told me it was fine and just sent it back. In the trash, and I'll never own another Hawke. Was never impressed with their glass anyway, and certainly not their warranty. 

My point is, most scope manufacturers don't have any idea about a spring piston airgun. So their claims of "springer rated" may or may not be pulled out of thin air, and I wouldn't count on them to back it up. 

My advice, buy a scope, any scope, mount it, if it breaks send it back and tell them it was on a .308 Ruger. 

My opinion is if a scope breaks on a 12fpe HW97K, it's not a very good scope anyhow.
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Much of the issues people have with scopes is they over adjust the windage or elevation dials. If you take a zeroed scope and have to run the adjustment dial near the end of travel you lose internal spring tension on the erector tube. Erector tube spring tension is needed to hold the tube in position shot after shot. When you adjust to far in any direction the spring becomes loose thereby allowing the erector tube to shift. Result, change in POI. The less amount of adjustment you make on a mechanically zeroed scope the better off you are.
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Yes that certainly helps. 

Just "aligned" the barrel on an old MK2 HW77K last weekend to eliminate the need for a droop mount. 

Break barrels get the same treatment. 
 
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Problem seems to be some people think they know more about a product than the maker's do. If you think that no one in the R&D dept. knows what a springer is you would be miles off the mark. Call and ask to speak to someone there and see what the answer is! Springer rated does not mean you will never have a problem it means the scopes are built with the unique recoil in mind whereas most scopes are not. Do a bit of research and find many instances of guys ruining non piston rated scopes in a few tins or substantially less than that or have a scope constantly being "off". Will there be problems with piston rated scopes of course there will at some point. If something has moving parts at some point there is going to be a problem. Will there be a big difference on average of a well known rated scope vs a non rated scope, most certainly or the "rated" company's would be out of business and top rated shooters would not be using them to begin with.
Click to expand...

+1. Not unheard of to get pretty much anything you might buy bad out of the box or fails not long after. Watched AGN long enough to know there's a lot of Hawke haters here but I'm not one. I have 7 Airmax scopes, 6 of those mounted on springers ranging anywhere from 6 to 20 fpe and have yet to have a problem with any of them.

Click to expand...

Im a Hawke hater because I had problems with two of their scopes, and got reamed by their warranty department both times. 

Of course you love yours, they are working! 

Click to expand...

You bet I do, close to 30 of them. Airmax aren't the only ones I own having Sport HD, Vantage and Panorama scopes to go with those. I do because I've never had a single issue with any of them and have never needed to put Hawke's warranty to the test. I'm also not blind to the thought that the day will come I'll have to but I'll deal with it when that day finally comes.
 
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A lot of issues are from not properly lapping the rings whenever needed or overtightening them or from using shims though many "swear" it doesn't hurt their scope.

Best to lap the rings as a habit and optically center the scope at optimum zero point (your most common distance you typically shoot at).

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/hawke-sw-tact-issue-resolved/

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/scope-issue/

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/problems-with-yet-another-hawke-scope/

The glass on the H7 Frontiers are really clear and in fact the clearest Chinese made scopes I have to date. I would push them if they ever go on sale.
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Over tightened rings really is bad when rings are to close to the turret housing. I try to get my rings away from them. Shimming doesn't hurt if it's kept to a minimum. I go .006 to .010" max ! 
 
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Not like I mentioned Hawke or any other brand but I have no idea how or why anyone would get reamed or have reason to be contacted or contact a maker by phone. Always do it by email so you have proof if ever needed. If we are going to talk about Hawke I have had one issue so far. They specifically ask you what the problem is before you even send a scope back. So how someone would get reamed over the phone and two times no less way is beyond me. If someone does not follow the proper steps that's where problems begin. The one issue I had with a scope that was years old and thousands of pellets under it was the SF was not ranging correctly over ~35-40 yards. I contacted Hawke to see what to do, I followed their protocols and within 2-3 weeks I received a brand new scope. No phone calls, no issues, new scope! To "consider pretty much any scope springer rated and just have at it" is another really good place to start having problems. To recommend this to anyone is just a foolish and something I certainly would never do especially if they were unsure of the springers harsh tendencies on scopes. To state that most scope makers do not have any idea about a spring piston airgun is bizarre and to recommend lying about what gun the scope was on when it breaks is simply wrong by any account. 
 
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I never had a problem with a Weaver Classic or better, a Sightron II or higher. No problems with a Bushnell 3200 or better. Nor with any Leupold but they are all old school. This new rave of tacti-cool scopes are an entirely different animal. Many of the "manufacturers" are under giant corporate umbrellas or just popped up small foreign business's. Some change scope models, parts suppliers, country of origin and glass like we change underwear. Everything is quite covertly done providing a very poor platform for quality and product life. That is why places like this are good to hash all this out. It is at least good for this point in time. 

I really wish the spinger market would abandon the dovetail mounts. They were really designed for the 3/4" pencil scopes and not todays 1" or 30/34mm tube monster scopes. It is way too much mass and way too little grab. I would like to see them stardardize on the Picitanny or at least have them drilled for Picitanny at the factory. Low rings would be more the norm instead of high. I feel like I am shooting a "You'll shoot your eye out" gun. 
 
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Not like I mentioned Hawke or any other brand but I have no idea how or why anyone would get reamed or have reason to be contacted or contact a maker by phone. Always do it by email so you have proof if ever needed. If we are going to talk about Hawke I have had one issue so far. They specifically ask you what the problem is before you even send a scope back. So how someone would get reamed over the phone and two times no less way is beyond me. If someone does not follow the proper steps that's where problems begin. The one issue I had with a scope that was years old and thousands of pellets under it was the SF was not ranging correctly over ~35-40 yards. I contacted Hawke to see what to do, I followed their protocols and within 2-3 weeks I received a brand new scope. No phone calls, no issues, new scope! To "consider pretty much any scope springer rated and just have at it" is another really good place to start having problems. To recommend this to anyone is just a foolish and something I certainly would never do especially if they were unsure of the springers harsh tendencies on scopes. To state that most scope makers do not have any idea about a spring piston airgun is bizarre and to recommend lying about what gun the scope was on when it breaks is simply wrong by any account.
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I also went through the motions that Hawke stated. Once they got the scope, they called me. I explained the issues over the phone, to the guy that was evaluating my scope. Simple as that. They said they couldn't find the issue, and sent the junk scope back. 

You think I just threw the damn thing in a box and called them till it got there and started raising hell? Come on man. 

Personally, I appreciate that a company could take the time to put a person on the phone with a customer. That's the one thing that went right about the whole ordeal I thought. 

Hang on tight up there on that high horse Mike. Must be a wild ride..


 
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