I went out and shot this morning filling to 230 bar and running it down to 123 bar. Not to bad of a curve until the end when the air started dropping. This is 150 shots with JSB 15.89s at power 9.
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Airwolf MCT + HeliBoard = Ultimate Airwolf! Full Review Inside
- Thread starter sharroff
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I went out and shot this morning filling to 230 bar and running it down to 123 bar. Not to bad of a curve until the end when the air started dropping. This is 150 shots with JSB 15.89s at power 9.
Dirte thanx for response and detail. This is interesting stuff. I used to shoot competitive trap and use a release trigger on my over/under. I wanted to think shoot and the gun fired. The release gave me that. Loaded my own shells to get consistency and so on. So I can see in this game why a light trigger and consistent velocity are important. I thik the ammo makers are going to have to step up their game LOL
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No problem! I used to shoot trap years ago as well (never competed formally). I tried shooting with a release and it just felt backwards. The good thing is buying pellets is cheap compared to shells. I would use a hydraulic loader to load faster. I'm still cleaning shot from my shop floor. I know you know how that is.
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Hi Dirte;
you can fine tune the power level about 130 bar
the board has 20 different values in each level to fine tune the setup. I am using from 230 to 105 bar
RAW/Prog 120 160 200 240 280 320 360 400 440 480 520 560 600 640 680 720 760 800 840 880
p9 2050 2050 2050 2050 2050 2040 2030 2030 2055 2090 2135 2185 2240 2290 2400 2460 2510 2550 2600 2680
you can fine tune the power level about 130 bar
the board has 20 different values in each level to fine tune the setup. I am using from 230 to 105 bar
RAW/Prog 120 160 200 240 280 320 360 400 440 480 520 560 600 640 680 720 760 800 840 880
p9 2050 2050 2050 2050 2050 2040 2030 2030 2055 2090 2135 2185 2240 2290 2400 2460 2510 2550 2600 2680
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Sherriff, If you find time, would you please email me the manual for the Heliboard? Thanks, Jack
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bigben11, I am new to this forum, so can't figure out how to send private messages, and can't figure out how to search whole site for specific things---forum seems very user unfriendly, unless I just don't know how to use it yet. Anyway, you sent me a message saying that you still have a heliboard---to sell? If so, tell me more; what you want for it. Best, Jack
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mmahoney, I was able to open the manual for the Heliboard, that you sent me. Thank you so much. Do you still use your heliboard, and, more importantly, do you know any more about the device, than what is show in the manual? Are new ones still being sold, as Ebay apparently took them off their site. Do you know if they make one to fit in the first Daystate electronic gun, the mark 3? Mark 4 has no display unit, only shows programming by number of beeps. Mark 3 has many more power levels available than the mark4 or Airwolf. Thanks, Jack
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Regarding the Heliboard for Airwolf, I noticed, in looking carefully at pictures and video of heliBoard, that it uses an electrolytic capacitor with the same capacity/voltage rating as the original Daystate circuit board does. That is to say, the original Daystate board and the Heliboard both use an electrolytic capacitor of 2200 mfd, at 62 or 63 volts, yet the Heliboard version is feeding up to 70 volts, or somewhat higher, to this capacitor. Anything higher than the rated voltage of 62 or 63 volts exceeds the specifications for the working voltage of the capacitor, which it can withstand, but such use lowers the life expectancy of that capacitor. It would be much better to use a capacitor with a higher working voltage, of say 100 volts, which would work beautifully for the 70 or more volts being fed to it, and, more importantly, it would increase the life expectancy of the capacitor. Problem with using a higher voltage capacitor, is that it is physically larger, especially in length, so wouldn't fit in such tight spaces on the board in gun, but with some ingenuity, I think it could be done. Anyone care to comment on this?
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As of last year the person in Greece was still making these boards. His boards were booted off Ebay, because someone in the US complained.
I believe that he has a separate board for the Mk3. Also, for the Airwolf and Mk4 he has two options. This is what he wrote:
"There are some options, red or blue pcb board, normal version (225usd) or extreme (240usd). "The extreme version utilizes a second capacitor and a more powerfull solenoid driver for higher power in high pressures. I get 50ftlbs with my 0.22 mvt from 245-220 bars( 29gn pellet). Keep in mind that the installation of the extreme ver has a little more difficulty due to limited space around ribbon cable."
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All the boards are the same color now. Not that it matters because no one ever sees it anyway. Jack is very helpful and will answer all your questions.
I still have the device and love it. I do know a little more than is in the manual, mostly from lots of use. For example, when setting the shot curves up you adjust the pulse widths every 40 "r" values (sounds complicated but it isn't). I've converted the value of any given "r" value into BAR. The equation is: Bar Value=.244(r)+25 if you ever want to know. I've found the equaiton useful when deterimining the efficiency of the rifle at the variety of settings.
In between the values you set, the program uses a linear trend to fill in the remaining values. The manual is not real clear on the linear part.
The following is a graph that shows some results of changing the voltage. I have my gun set at 72V. I think it is a good compromise between raising the max power level and long term durability of the device. Despite what the graph says, once I adjusted the shot string levels, my MK4 gets 38.5 FPE at 72V on my highest setting. The graph was made with the stock r values that the Heliboard shipped with.
I still have the device and love it. I do know a little more than is in the manual, mostly from lots of use. For example, when setting the shot curves up you adjust the pulse widths every 40 "r" values (sounds complicated but it isn't). I've converted the value of any given "r" value into BAR. The equation is: Bar Value=.244(r)+25 if you ever want to know. I've found the equaiton useful when deterimining the efficiency of the rifle at the variety of settings.
In between the values you set, the program uses a linear trend to fill in the remaining values. The manual is not real clear on the linear part.
The following is a graph that shows some results of changing the voltage. I have my gun set at 72V. I think it is a good compromise between raising the max power level and long term durability of the device. Despite what the graph says, once I adjusted the shot string levels, my MK4 gets 38.5 FPE at 72V on my highest setting. The graph was made with the stock r values that the Heliboard shipped with.
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Thank you so much for posting the graph on power vs. capacitor charge voltage, it is very revealing. When I saw that Jack is using a capacitor on his Heliboard, of the same, or close to the same working voltage ( 62 or 63 volts) as the capacitor on the original factory board, I was surprised, because he is charging that capacitor to considerably higher than the specified working voltage specified by the maker of the capacitors, 70 to 72/73 volts, with MAX, of 76 volts. Naturally, a 63 volt electrolytic, 2200 mfd capacitor will withstand that increase in voltage, BUT IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA TO FEED IT THAT MUCH VOLTAGE, BECAUSE THE LIFE EXPECTANCY OF THE CAPACITOR WILL BE REDUCED. Jack mentions in the heliboard manual, that voltages over 72/73 volts will "shorten capacitor's life," and he is correct. However, anything above the manufactured working voltage of 63 volts will reduce its life, not a good thing. I have worked in electronics for years, and what I am saying is common knowledge among those who work with electrolytic caps. A good tech, would never use a capacitor with a working voltage of 63 volts, in a circuit putting 70+ volts on it, when it is a simple matter to put in a capacitor with a working voltage higher than what you expect to put on it, giving long and good life expectancy. Since, with the heliboard, one expects to use 70 to 73, maybe even as high as 76 volts for discharge of capacitor, it is much wiser to simply use a capacitor with a higher working voltage, say 100 volts, which are readily available. That way you are using the capacitor within its rated working voltage, with no problems with its life expectancy decreasing. The only problem is that such capacitors are slightly larger. They are available in same diameter, but are slightly longer, However, that problem can be solved, by making room for them in gun.
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Makes sense to me. I'd talk to Jack and see if he could put a bigger capacitor in the build for you. Depending on the amount of added length it could be possible. I've only had my Heliboard about a year which isn't very long to determine reliability.
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I did not install mine yet, took a couple of photos. I opted for the "extreme" board. There are two capacitors. First is a 63V 2200uF, and the other one is an 80V 680uF.
I suspect that the 63V is for the "standard" version and the 80V capacitor kicks in (supplementing the 63V capacitor) when using higher voltage at the "extreme" power level
.
I suspect that the 63V is for the "standard" version and the 80V capacitor kicks in (supplementing the 63V capacitor) when using higher voltage at the "extreme" power level
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fe7565 wrote: " I opted for the “extreme” board. There are two capacitors. First is a 63V 2200uF, and the other one is an 80V 680uF. " Interesting; I am sure that you are correct, in that the additional capacitor takes extreme stress off of the 63 volt capacitor. Allowing for more useful life expectancy for the capacitors. Electrolytic capacitors such as this, have a normal lifespan, as specified by the manufacturers of the capacitors. It is quite dependent upon its operating temperature within a circuit. Most of them have a life expectancy of around 6000 hours, at operating temperature of 80 deg. C. Keep me informed, of your progress on the heliboard instalaltion and use in your Daystate.
I am presently working on conversion of a Daystate mark 3, the first electronic, solenoid model. I am re barreling it to .357 caliber for bullets, not for pellets. But, I needed to make a new action, because the Daystate one was too small, and not designed properly for such an increase in caliber size. Too, I will need to make/install a different valve, a balanced valve, that will require very little force from the solenoid, to open larger valve needed for .357 (I already have the valve, so it only needs fitting). I am in touch with Jack, the Heliboard maker, and he sent me a video of an interesting conversion that he is presently making, using a Hatsan AT44, converting it to electronic solenoid hammer, and one of his heliboards. He says that if I were to use conventional valve in my Daystate Mk3, that I would have to use at least an 8000 mfd capacitor in board, a heavier hammer in the solenoid, and perhaps a custom bigger solenoid, and he is probably correct, so the balanced valve will solve all those issues with ease, because it requires very little force to open it.
I am presently working on conversion of a Daystate mark 3, the first electronic, solenoid model. I am re barreling it to .357 caliber for bullets, not for pellets. But, I needed to make a new action, because the Daystate one was too small, and not designed properly for such an increase in caliber size. Too, I will need to make/install a different valve, a balanced valve, that will require very little force from the solenoid, to open larger valve needed for .357 (I already have the valve, so it only needs fitting). I am in touch with Jack, the Heliboard maker, and he sent me a video of an interesting conversion that he is presently making, using a Hatsan AT44, converting it to electronic solenoid hammer, and one of his heliboards. He says that if I were to use conventional valve in my Daystate Mk3, that I would have to use at least an 8000 mfd capacitor in board, a heavier hammer in the solenoid, and perhaps a custom bigger solenoid, and he is probably correct, so the balanced valve will solve all those issues with ease, because it requires very little force to open it.
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mmahoney wrote: " I’ve only had my Heliboard about a year which isn’t very long to determine reliability." Electrolytic capacitors, such as are used in the Heliboard, are getting smaller, at same voltages, as time passes, due to better manufacturing techniques. When I first started in electronics, in the mid 1960s, electrolytic capacitors were huge, but now, in same operating voltage and capacity value, they are quite small, with much better quality too. I think that electrolytic capacitors made for use at 80 deg. C., and used in such temperature range, have a life expectancy of around 6000 hours. That life expectancy decreases if used in hotter temperatures, or if subject to higher operating voltages than specified on them. Electrolytic capacitors have a much shorter lifespan than most other types of capacitors, and we thus far have not found ways to allow electrolytics to have a significantly longer lifespan, unlike other capacitors. In almost all of electronic circuits today, electrolytic caps, compared to other components, are most likely to fail, due to their short lifespan expectations. Electrolytic capacitors allow for much higher values, more microfarads, than other types of capacitors; that is why they are used.
Please keep me informed of your installation and use of the Heliboard.
Please keep me informed of your installation and use of the Heliboard.
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Wow, just found this thread and read through it in one sitting. I have the Red Wolf .22HP. One of the reasons I have it was its ability to be tuned. Well three settings and a $400.00 programmer doesn't really make sense if the board can be swapped, and I can go from 12 FPE up to the 40FPE. I would assume that you could modify each of the steps per pellet weight or slug weight.
I can see where Daystate didn't want the liability in England but the American market this should be a given.
Smitty
I can see where Daystate didn't want the liability in England but the American market this should be a given.
Smitty
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I maybe wrong, but do not think you would be able to go from a 12 FPE UK market rifle to 40 FPE just with reprogramming or using a heliboard. I believe the UK non-FAC version would need a larger port/valve etc also. But you can go from a FAC rated (for example US markets) 40 FPE down to 12 FPE with the electronics only.
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