Airbow not legal in VA

Forums Hunting Airbow not legal in VA

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    ztirffritz
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    http://m.roanoke.com/sports/outdoors/bill-cochran-field-reports-new-pioneer-airbow-deemed-illegal-for/article_a27d5c32-c054-11e5-9a84-0b05562790ba.html?mode=jqm

    “Crosman, the 90-year old company that built your granddads Red Ryder BB gun, has introduced a new shooting product through its Benjamin brand called the Pioneer Airbow. Before you rush out to plunk down $849 to buy one, be aware that the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries has ruled that it doesn’t qualify as a hunting instrument in Virginia.According to Lee Walker, DGIF media relations coordinator, a bow/crossbow is defined as using “a string that bends a flexible piece of material.” The airbow uses compressed air to propel the arrow, he said. The arrows are pulled from the front rather than pushed from the rear.Nor does the airbow meet the standards for a rifle, an instrument described as having a barrel, he said.All this doesn’t appear to be quelling the hype over the new introduction. It has been grabbing the spotlight at the SHOT Shop open this week in Las Vegas. The new product has increased traffic on the company’s website http://www.crosman.com threefold. The airbows are scheduled to be shipped to buyers beginning in April, but sales have been so strong buyers are being advised it may be months later before they are delivered…”

    I’m pretty sure that Daisy built the Red Ryder…but I digress.

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    Alan
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    In my opinion…..

    All of the hype behind the Airbow, is an effort on Crosman’s part to establish a market for something, that in the final analysis, is an orphan product looking for a market. Sort of like digital pagers, just before the verge of cellphones and digital texting. In any case, it isn’t the productive product nitch that their new $200 PCP will soon achieve. Reminds me of their syringe inoculation airgun. Sure sounded good on the surface, but…..

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    spysir
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     I don’t think it’s  an “orphan product looking for a market” , old fashioned airgun folks ( FX 2000 owners, folks who remember titan & Gc2 airguns, and even all the nice newer video inspired people are NOT the market aimed at ( pun ) .
     Crosman is diversified just in the outdoor sports world at least. It WAS a huge- Attention getter- hit at this years National Archery convention ( so I have read) . Crosman sells ( but I don’t think makes :  http://www.crossbownation.com/community/threads/center-point-tormentor-370.36822/     )
    the “Tormentor” crossbow , and other archery gear, scopes, camo issue rigs, ….   and to quote one crossbow poster ” but I figured at that price, why not” crossbows ARE expensive if you want power and 100 yard groups, ya crossbow folks want 100 yard groups too.
     The name Tormentor was/is also a crosman brand name for an airsoft rig that had a good rap a few years ago. So now maybe (?) the “orphan” crosman was looking for is older and the name clicks? Could be not. Most of their no airguns stuff appears to be from over seas – I have NO real knowledge of crosman dealings-  and the Attention getting, some on airgun forums, more on archery forums, likely many hunting videos out ther? Hunt? Crosmna has Camo stuff !”  look daddy they have pink camo” , better spoend on the pink camo crosman something.
     Who on this forum if offered the chance to five one would honestly say ” No thank you ” ? What archer would say, No don’t even want to shoot a balloon at 50 yards, and if it shoots as well as most air powered archery rigs do ( and many have been made and sold by many company’s and hobby folks) you cant mi9ss at 50 with a scope, first shot you’ll easily hit  a balloon or such even if you’ve never fired anything.
     Maybe it’s like when rock & roll and county music  and men in spandex crossed over/mingled  and the days of Merle Haggard are gone however this are the Good Ole Days so, be happy.  The airbow thing IS  ( they say in print I believe)  made in the USA, Merle would like that. “I” would like to have that job. Big Bore airguns are not legal for shooting in many many states ( TN included, nothing over a .25 cal and then squirrel & rabbit only)  so why have one? I had no “need” to own a .458 DAQ but everyone I ever handed it to smiled after shooting it whether they would ever buy one at any price or not, same deal here for many.  And some people naturally read rules for hunting one way or another – works best if you know your local warden – for a while ” muzzle loaded” airguns above .45 were legal here (TN), in Montana if you owned 186 acres+ NO hunting permit needed, daily limit every day. It seems Hawaii does not allow any airgun hunting, but the law says on private land ” any weapon the owner approves- something to the like- so airgun, airbow, 50bmg, flame thrower, …. . I am thinking in TN you might be able to hunt squirrel with it ( LOL) just slide an empty 30-06 cart over the shaft for a tip and have a SMOKING blunt head.? 
     If crosman sold ONLY nice pre-charged starting tomorrow they might not be in the game long. Branching out is good and for a while they have expaned in the US made things so we DO have decent pre-charged airguns with outstanding support.
     Personally I have NO use for any of the airsoft/other stuff, none at all, but heck I’d fire one of those also if anyone ever handed me one.

    I think everyone should email Chip ( or whom ? ) and ask for a “traveling Airbow” for the members here. Back when Randy was running that Green crosman forum ( new crosman forum , ?) he had a “Traveling 1701-P” just before you could really get one, ship it from member to meber each agreeing to make notes and post after using then mail to next member, insured, NO tampering – maybe adjust trigger- . Yup “I” want to fire one, also I am thinking as it does seem to be based of other crosman parts in stock, it would be only a small mater for a hobbyist  ( seems I’ve heard of such folks in the airgun world ) to make iot one style pellet/slug./ball shooting airgun fairly cheap, regulated, hum.

     Look at all those darn words.
    Good night all.

    John

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    Chip
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    Z: The Virginia decision is sketchy. A PR guy made that determination, not law enforcement. It was done because they see the airbow as an air rifle and their definition of “rifle” is that the projectile must travel within a barrel. Our arrow slips over a tube or as we refer to it, an arrow rest. Rest assurred we are actively pursing its approval in VA.

    Alan: Ask any crossbow hunter if they would like a safer alternative. Add in the fact its faster and more accurate. Every single one emphatically says yes. That’s the market. Then ask the handicapped, the ol’ timers, and the folks with medical issues who can not cock a crossbow. More market opportunity. Because technology has jumped ahead does not mean there is no need for it. Still not convinced? The American Crossbow Federation, representing 40,000 members, has rescinded its offer to do a feature article in their official publication AND notified us they will not accept advertising. No market? They’re sure acting like there’s one.

    John: Nailed it. It’s a fine line between “need” and “want” and if you ask my wife, she’ll tell you most of my crap is due to the latter.

    ch

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    ztirffritz
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    I think that the Crossbow is an awesome product.  I’d LOVE to have one, but they’re at a nexus where laws are going to be re-written and re-evaluated because of it.  It’s going to cause issues for airguns as well as the Airbow.  I won’t claim to know which way the laws are going to go, but I’d guess more than a few will make the Airbow illegal to hunt with.

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    Alan
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    All good comments. But like all products for sale to consumers, only time will tell us yeah or nay. 

    Sort of reminds me of the Beta format. It was far superior to the VHS format, yet it lost the war. So has VHS at this late date. 

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    zebra
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    I think they’re quite cool. I would imagine they would appeal to anyone who hunts with a crossbow. I bet air can be used to achieve greater accuracy than string.

    I read an article by Tom Gaylord about airbows and he said that making them much more powerful than regular crossbows causes problems because it becomes impossible to retrieve your arrows when they penetrate too deep into your target. He said they try to keep the speed down to 350-450 fps max or they are not useful. 

    I would have liked to see a few more design benefits over regular crossbows myself. If they made it a repeater, for example, that would be a major advantage. As it stands, this is not a new product as there have been a number of airbows over the years.

    It’s nice that it’s easier to cock than a crossbow but I don’t find it that hard to pull back the strong on a well designed crossbow. I don’t know how big the disabled hunting market is but if I was unable to draw a crossbow string back, I would probably hunt with a firearm or regular air rifle so it’s not like this market is not served at all right now. For disabled people, I would imagine the extra weight of the air bow is just as much of a disadvantage as heavy cocking is on a crossbow too….. 

    I think Crossman’s time would have been better spent on a Marauder bullpup. There actually is a large gap in the market for that…

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    bowwild
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    As soon as I saw the “airbow” I thought, here we go again. 

    Before long someone will invent a way to push a lead conical with smokeless powder in a cartridge.

    I don’t think it would be legal in many states. The industry will get behind it and make all kinds of claims to get laws changed so they can sell more stuff. Oh, and the industry will say that the public demands it. 

    One of the repercussions if a push is made to make this legal during archery seasons, will be to reignite the battle against crossbows in a few places and the crossbow crowd fought a dozen years to expand there tool’s acceptance. 

    I would’t care at all if this were considered a firearm and allowed during centerfire or shotgun slug seasons. 

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    zebra
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    “bowwild”As soon as I saw the “airbow” I thought, here we go again. 

    Before long someone will invent a way to push a lead conical with smokeless powder in a cartridge.

    I don’t think it would be legal in many states. The industry will get behind it and make all kinds of claims to get laws changed so they can sell more stuff. Oh, and the industry will say that the public demands it. 

    One of the repercussions if a push is made to make this legal during archery seasons, will be to reignite the battle against crossbows in a few places and the crossbow crowd fought a dozen years to expand there tool’s acceptance. 

    I would’t care at all if this were considered a firearm and allowed during centerfire or shotgun slug seasons. 

    
Pushing a lead conical with smokeless powder in a cartridge? Then time travel which is when the big bucks start rolling in!

    it would be fun to witness a Cowboys and Indians style battle between people air bows and those with regular bows to settle this once and for all!

    I always thought that most hunting restrictions were based on minimum muzzle energy requirements. I’m not sure I fully understand why people care so much about the device that fired the projectile if the result is the same. They should just choose to either include air bows with regular crossbows or with the firearms category and be done with it. 

    I can can sort of understand why bow hunters would consider crossbows or airbows to be less of a challenge or even a different sport which would explain why they chose not to use them but not why they have an issue with someone else using one. You are probably right about it causing the continuation of that debate though.

    Air is obviously a superior propellant over string so if the goal is accurate humane kills, airbows are the way to go. It takes a long time to master using old-school bows. I bet there is a lot of injured animals suffering along the way. 

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