AEAC reviews the Western Big Bores Bushbuck .45

Forums PCP Airguns AEAC reviews the Western Big Bores Bushbuck .45

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    Michael
    Keymaster
    Keymaster

    Hi Willie

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Yes, I am a proponent of a mechanical safety (although I own several rifles without them), but it should be noted that mechanical safeties are not fool proof. 

    IMO the Bushbuck is a purpose built single shot hunting machine. And the cocking mechanism should not be engaged until the shooter is ready to take a shot.  In the event the target does not present a shot then the shooter should disable the powerhouse by de-cocking the action. 

    Your desire for an additional level of safety like a mechanical safety is understandable. I sent an email to Western Big Bores linking them to this thread. Perhaps they will consider this in future designs.

     

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    pcphunter
    Participant
    Member

    Really Willie,
         This is Ron the guy that sent you all the higharchunter bullets to test. If I remember correctly You and I talked in depth about the Bushbuck and the subject of it not having a “safety” never came up or I would have explained to you that the safety is not cocking the rifle until ready to fire. Having a safety on with while loaded does not make it ok to walk around hunting with a loaded gun. You should not load the gun until ready to shoot. Those of us that hunt with bushbucks load when ready to shoot and if you spook the animal while doing so the so, be it. If you were to do it your way “The unsafe way” by loading and cocking it the walking around looking for an animal, the Yes, you will most likely have a hunting accident. As you know I have a .45 Texan like yours and a Bushbuck. I can load and cock my Bushbuck without making a sound. The Texan makes way more noise to load, cock and take safety off than the Bushbuck does. Unless you want to load and make safe your Texan and walk around looking for animals “The unsafe way” then you can skip the load and cock actions and just remove the safety. Which by the way makes a distinct metallic click which could spook an animal.

    The below info was copied from  Texas Parks and Wildlife manual
    https://tpwd.texas.gov/education/hunter-education/online-course/hunting-safety 
     Chapter 6 – Hunting Safety  Whenever a firearm is involved with any activity, there is a potential for an accident to occur when the firearm is not handled responsibly. How to be a safe hunter is not something you learn once. Hunting safety should be an ongoing development of skills and attitude over the lifetime of the hunter.Rules Hunters Can Live By . . . Ten Commandments of Shooting Safety

    1. Always point the muzzle in a safe direction.
    2. Control the direction of the muzzle at all times. Do not point a firearm or bow at anything you do not intend to shoot. Never rest a muzzle on your toe or foot. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard until the instant you are ready to fire. Always keep the safety on until ready to fire; however, the safety should never be a substitute for safe firearm handling.

    3. Treat every firearm or bow with the same respect you would show a loaded gun or nocked arrow.
    4. Every time you pick up a firearm, the first thing you do is point the muzzle in a safe direction and check to see if it is loaded. Be sure the chamber and magazine are empty and that the action is open until ready to be fired. If you do not understand how to determine if it is loaded, do not accept the firearm until someone has safely shown you that it is unloaded. Read your instruction manual carefully before you handle new firearms or bows.

    5. Be sure of your target and what is in front of and beyond your target.
    6. Before you pull the trigger you must properly identify game animals. Until your target is fully visible and in good light, do not even raise your scope to see it. Use binoculars! Know what is in front of and behind your target. Determine that you have a safe backstop or background. Since you do not know what is on the other side, never take a shot at any animals on top of ridges or hillsides. Know how far bullets, arrows and pellets can travel. Never shoot at flat, hard surfaces, such as water, rocks or steel because of ricochets.

    7. Unload firearms and unstring conventional bows when not in use.
    8. Leave actions open, and store sporting arms in cases when traveling to and from shooting areas. Take bolts out or break down shotguns if necessary. Know how your equipment operates. Store and transport firearms and ammunition separately and under lock and key. Store firearms and bows in cool, dry places. Use gun or trigger locks and guards when not in use.

    9. Handle the firearms, arrows and ammunition carefully.
    10. Avoid horseplay with firearms. Never climb a fence, a tree or a ladder with a loaded firearm or bow and arrows. Never jump a ditch or cross difficult terrain with a loaded firearm or nocked arrow. Never face or look down the barrel from the muzzle end. Be sure the only ammunition you carry correctly matches the gauge or caliber you are shooting. Always carry arrows in a protected cover or quiver. Learn the proper carries. Try to use the two-hand carry whenever possible because it affords you the best muzzle control. Always carry handguns with hammers over an empty chamber or cylinder. If you fall, be sure to disassemble the gun and check the barrel from the breech end for obstructions. Carry a field cleaning kit.

    Rule 1 states: The safety should never be a substitute for safe firearm handling.  I interpret this as saying it is not alright to walk around hunting with a loaded gun or in this case a Airgun.

    Rules 5 solidifies how I interpret rule 1. So, The Bushbuck, any other airgun or firearm can be safe as long as you practice safe handling and hunting practices. But if you want to be able to load an airgun or firearm with or without a safty and go walking through the woods then “You are unsafe not the gun.”

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    T3PRanch
    Participant
    Member

    Revolvers as a general rule have NO safety’s. Many are used for hunting safely by not cocking till game is seen. What is the difference between revolvers and a Bushbuck safety wise? NO DIFFERENCE! ;) (well possibly one as it would be a lot harder to shoot yourself with a 4′ gun than a gun with a 6″ to 8″ barrel)

    Thurmond

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    Deleted Account

    Hello Willie, 
    You do have a valid concern for peoples safety… however when it comes to any firearm, airgun, bow, or even high powered slingshot… the real “safety” is located in exactly the same location on each one… between our ears! Many firearm related “accidents” have occurred because someone “thought they had the safety on”! Our reliance on a mechanical safety should never take the place of any of the basic safety rules. Such as RULE #1: “ALWAYS KEEP YOUR WEAPON POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION!

    Whether hunting with a .45 Bushbuck or a Daisy BB gun you can’t hurt yourself or anyone else if you follow this simple rule. And if I catch you not following this simple rule while out hunting or shooting with me, I will give you one warning. And if after the first warning I catch you pointing your weapon in an unsafe direction, then you and I are done hunting or shooting together. Period! I believe in a mechanical safety, but you cannot rely on things that can be ignored, forgotten, or that can fail. The safety rules will prevent “accidents” more often than reliance upon things like a safety. It is almost impossible to design a weapon so that it cannot be misused by by someone that does not obey the safety rules, or that arrogantly thinks they are above the rules and do not apply them. To be safe… always obey the safety rules!

    It is this simple: If at all times you keep your Bushbuck pointed in a safe direction no harm can possibly occur… and if you don’t keep it pointed in a safe direction at all times then you are being irresponsible and have no business owning it or hunting with it anyway. 

    Best regards, Chuck

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    Willie14228
    Participant
    Member

    I do not walk around with a cocked gun!!! What I do and what some idiot may do is two different things
    My point was that if an air gun is involved in an accident that it will be put under a magnifying glass and that will be the first excuse some idiot will use in a court room.
    Both my Texan and my Bulldog are decocked when I am moving around.
    Guns don’t kill people, people kill people including themselves.
    A revolver is not classified as a hunting device although some states allows pistols to be used in hunting. Furthermore it’s the very fact that we are trying to stay out off the firearm classification that I am talking about.
    Look I want to clarify something I said some things the wrong way, but i do feel strongly about this issue.
    I am not attacking AOA or even Western Big Bores, The BushBuck was, I believe designed for primarily what my last statement indicated Big Game Safari, and therefore a select class of hunters most with years of experience.
    You have to consider the fact that it’s only in the last few years that Big Bore Air Rifles are becoming recognized as a viable alternative to regular game hunts in the United States. Any manufacturer and Retailer owes it to themselves to insure that when an accident does happen (and it will) all the bases have been covered this includes all viable safety devices. This is a $2000.00 gun!!! Are you going to try and tell me the profit margin doesn’t allow for a trigger safety?
    Should a trigger safety be the only line of defense against accidental discharge NO, Never should a hunting rifle be carried around cocked NO, Never do some hunters do so Yes! Are those same hunters the reasons why we others get a bad rap on television YES!
    But let’s just say the person behind a gun like the bushbuck does everything right except for two small details they are left handed and have adjusted the trigger to lightly
    They are shooting off x sticks
    They are lined up for the shot
    They Cock the weapon, which hand is used and how much control of that said rifle is lost during the cocking and recontrol.
    What happens if after cocking and before full control the rifle that has had the trigger adjusted down to a hair trigger slips and falls to the ground?
    My statement of “shunned” was harsh I agree but I will still stand behind my words.
    Thanks
    Willie

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    Deleted Account

    Well Willie,
    I can assure you that I stand by my words also. In your original unedited post you accused the manufacturer of “creating a death trap” and AOA of being irresponsible in marketing such a dangerous item to the public. OK you have exercised the privilege of coming on here and expressing your opinion… several times. Do you suppose maybe now enough has been said my brother? 
    Kind regards, Chuck

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    pcphunter
    Participant
    Member

    What happens if after cocking and before full control the rifle that has had the trigger adjusted down to a hair trigger slips and falls to the ground?
    In most cases the firearm or air rifle could discharge because a very small percentage of them have auto safeties and even if it had a safety in your scenario the safety never got set. We could debate this all day. There is no such thing as a “accidental discharge” there are only ” negligent discharges” AKA stupidity, and I stand by my words. Like CHUCK said safety starts between your ears. Let’s all be safe in all our shooting and hunting.

     

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    AEAC
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    This is a good discussion and I just wanted to add that I was successful in setting the Bushbuck’s break weight as high as 6.5 lbs, and as little as a few ounces. I’m sure you could go higher if desired.. I was just curious and stopped there.

    To me this gives the Bushbuck great flexibility, leaving it up to the operator to decide how to set it up.

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    Willie14228
    Participant
    Member

    Yes Sir, Sorry if I offended anyone thank you for listening

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    Willie14228
    Participant
    Member

    Today I had the opportunity to talk with Kip at Air Guns Of Arizona. As a matter of fact we spoke at length (over an hour) on the phone about my concerns on the BushBuck but more importantly about the fact that it is very important for us to through self governance insure that Air Rifles stays on the right side of the public image.

    ***** Instead of deleting or editing my post because I do feel that many of the things that were said are correct about perceived public image, I will however offer a public apology to AOA for making some of my own wrong assumptions and allegations.
    Kip actually had played a part in the design of the BushBuck and they did consider a trigger safety but decided against it in an effort to actually make the rifle safer, Forcing the shooter not to rely on a safety catch and instead de-cock the rifle. Kip was or is a Certified Firearm instructor and has personally witnessed trigger safeties fail drastically and personally and that played a part in the decision, This was a thought out decision, and one that though I feel every viable safety feature should be utilized can respect.
    I discovered that Kip feels as strongly as I do in self governance and is very passionate about Big Bore Airguns (as much as I) and is a very deep well of knowledge on the subject (Way more than I)  he is in that short hours discussion someone I have learned I can respect.

    For the United States Air Rifles being used for regular game hunting is still in if not infancy then at a very young stage. Unfortunately in many cases manufactures have bowed to the mighty dollar and uneducated demands to produce “Big Bore” hunting rifle in calibers and speeds or in some cases quality.  That do not perform the function they are being advertised for. One of the issues that we discussed was the fact that most people are caught up on faster the better instead of the foot pounds of energy.

    I will be the first to admit when placed beside people like Kip (Sorry I do not know his last name) Tom Gaylord, and Dennis Quackenbush, my knowledge of Big Boar Air Rifles and hunting with them is miniscule compared to them.
    But I do think we can all agree that insuring through proper education and self governance all of the air gun nation can help it grow properly. Many of the things that we spoke about would really fall of topic from this thread and so I will leave it at this.

    I feel the Western Big Bores BushBuck IS NOT an Air Rifle for the untrained or uneducated Air Rifle Hunter, That being said the fact is ANY Big Bore Air Rifle would fall in that statement. The very same care and learning curve and learned skill,  that a person would find themselves in moving from a firearm to Black Powder or Archery (including crossbows) applies to Big Bore Rifles, This includes moving from small bore air rifles to big bore.
    I have said earlier that it is a beautiful gun and its accuracy and power is impressive to say the least.

    Again AOA, Kip and Western Big Bore my sincere apologies for making my own wrong assumptions and allegations.
    Thank You
    Willie

     

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    Deleted Account

    Looks like we’re going to have to keep you pointed in a safe direction… 🙂

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    Willie14228
    Participant
    Member

    Yeah a brick wall that you want out of the way perhaps?

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    AEAC
    Affiliate
    Affiliate

    Getting back on track,

    …it was Ron at High Arc Hunter that made that 470 round I was using in the vid, not Mr. Hollowpoint. That was a mistake on my end.

    I put a link to Ron’s site in the description of the vid for ya’ll.

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    Deleted Account

    Hi Steve,
    Just a note to let you know how much I enjoy your reviews. One thing that pleases me is the fact that you shoot these guns even under windy, adverse conditions. And the second thing that pleases me very much is that you test these guns with many, many different pellets.

    We know that an air rifle that is super accurate with one certain pellet may not shoot anything else worth a darn, and vice versa… so I am glad that you are revealing this information because there are many people that are brand new to this sport that may think their new rifle is not accurate when in fact with the correct pellet it is super accurate.

    Keep up the good work Steve. If you’re ever in the Fort Lauderdale area let me know ahead of time and I will treat you to some Sashimi tuna! 🙂

    Best regards, Chuck

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    pcphunter
    Participant
    Member

    Steve, 
         Thanks for making the correction on the 470 gr. Eland bullet. Kip and I have put a lot of time, money and lead into developing this bullet. You will be able to order them from A.O.A. soon. Note: they will not chamber in a Texan.

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    pcphunter
    Participant
    Member

    Willie,
         Glad to see that everything is cleared up now. I talked to kip last night and told me that he very much enjoyed tanking to you.
          P.S. I will get the 202 gr. lead free hollow points to you soon for testing on coyotes.

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    rwsmike
    Participant
    Member

    Steve,What’s next up for review ….we want a schedule lol

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    AEAC
    Affiliate
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    “rwsmike”Steve,What’s next up for review ….we want a schedule lol

    
  I uploaded the Streamline vid tonight and we’ll launch it as a RDW tomorrow.  At the house is the Galahad carbine from Pyramyd, the Pioneer Airbow from Crosman, and the Hatsan Bullmaster directly from Hatsan.  Yesterday Crosman shipped the Wildfire and Airgun Depot shipped the Swarm Maxim.  The Brocock Bantam was supposed to ship from AOA this week but I haven’t seen a notice yet.  

    Not sure what I’ll do next week… Leaning towards the Airbow?  What do you think?

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    AEAC
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    “CHUCK”Hi Steve,
    Just a note to let you know how much I enjoy your reviews. One thing that pleases me is the fact that you shoot these guns even under windy, adverse conditions. And the second thing that pleases me very much is that you test these guns with many, many different pellets.

    We know that an air rifle that is super accurate with one certain pellet may not shoot anything else worth a darn, and vice versa… so I am glad that you are revealing this information because there are many people that are brand new to this sport that may think their new rifle is not accurate when in fact with the correct pellet it is super accurate.

    Keep up the good work Steve. If you’re ever in the Fort Lauderdale area let me know ahead of time and I will treat you to some Sashimi tuna! 🙂

    Best regards, Chuck

     

    
  Thanks Chuck.  Making videos in the wind drives the sponsors nuts and understandably so… I don’t blame them for wanting their product to get a fair shake without interference.  But like you, I appreciate making movies in the wind… It’s an element that always seems to be present when we’re playing, lol.  Experimenting with pellets is also part of the lifestyle so I like showing it.. I’m grateful you like watching.  Steve 

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    AEAC
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    “pcphunter”Steve, 
         Thanks for making the correction on the 470 gr. bullet. Kip and I have put a lot of time, money and lead into developing this bullet. You will be able to order them from A.O.A. soon. They are dropping out closer to 465 gr.

    
No worries Ron.  Sorry for the confusion.  I’ll make it up to ya down the road.  Steve

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