A Warning…heed it, ignore it…I'm too old to be impacted!

Forums General Discussion A Warning…heed it, ignore it…I'm too old to be impacted!

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    sonny
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    Im a NRA member. Strength in numbers.

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    ackuric
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    My municipality lumps them in with firearms AND 'illegal weapons' already…Don't think for a second this can't or wont happen on MUCH larger scales..

     

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    douger
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    I'm a member so is my wife we stand up for our rights  

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    Spray1Mark
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    Or come and stay with me in the UK, come and see my gun club and experience what oppression and draconian legislation that does nothing to keep the public safe is all about, being a law abiding citizen and still be treated like an outcast!

    We value what little we have left, you have plenty left, but if you do nothing you won't!

    I helped run pro gun organisation for 10 years, even hosting Wayne LaPierre in London for USA TV, trying to tell Americans if you don't listen this will happen to you!

    If any of you have a sister that wants to marry a fat ugly British guy, then give me her number and I will be over in a shot!

    Don't argue about this stuff, as above VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

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    Deleted Account

    I can’t go any higher…

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    L.Leon
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    The horse left the barn long ago… yes, let’s defend our Second Amendment rights as “recognized by the U.S. Constitution. But alarmism and hysterics gets nowhere fast.

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    Queequeg
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    L.Leon

     But alarmism and hysterics gets nowhere fast.

    Tell that to AOC and the Progressive Democrats that just passed universal background checks in my state where gun ownership is generally considered sacrosanct.

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    JimNM
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    Elbowgrease
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    They will do what they want and there is little that we really can do. I think one of the worst things is to draw to much attention to the hobby but all it takes is a few morons to go and do something stupid. Hell, If someone gets there eye shot out with an Red Ryder then thats all they need to get their wheels turning. 

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    Spacebat
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    I don’t know, I kinda see what Hepotter is saying. As a newish member but long time lurker I see how the conversation is about more power here, bigger caliber there. I mean, there’s even videos of 25s hitting small birds (lots of poof and no bird left). I just wonder, what’s the point? I’m for everybody getting what they want but do we really all need high power big bore? If it seems that way, that’s all the stores/manuf will give us (and the regulation not far behind) and that I think would take away some of the spice of the sport. I saw the post somewhere of somebody getting a record for doing 150+ yards with a 177. There’s something to say about the skill that that requires and if in the future all we have is big bore slugs, it’s kinda sad. Have it your way but splitting the conversations between big bore and small bore may have its value.

    Im sure I’ll get it for being the whipper snapper stepping out but hey, it’s a conversation right?

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    far_shot
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    I had at my disposal a BATF agent for an hour and a half while he check my records for compliance. They are not interested in  air guns at all, nor black powder pistols(that can punch out 6 lethal shots as fast as you can pull a single action trigger). If it comes to airgun regulations, it will be just more work load for them. BATF is not the enemy, the politicians are the enemy! His concern was strictly compliance so that the records are legally kept and maintained. Fun fact, any firearm you have ever bought and filled out the 4473 form……the BATF/government  DOES NOT know you have that firearm. It can  be traced back to you if it was traced through a crime. Dealers keep the records forever or until they go out of business. At that point ,they are turned in and filed away and forgotten until the record is needed for a trace. On my other hand,if there was ever confiscation, they would have to get all the records from the dealers to see who has the firearms. That would be an insurmountable task to find all the owners through those hand written records records of millions and millions of firearms with dead ends, when the last owner has sold the firearm long ago or passed away. BTW,my records compliance was 100% with no issues 🙂

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    Elbowgrease
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    Heres an example of what kind of people run things.

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    Glem.Chally
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    Elbowgrease

    Heres an example of what kind of people run things.

     

     

    Yikes!

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    Saltlake58
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    BATF doesn't actually have (to my understanding) authority over air rifles.  The F = Firearms.  Firearms is defined as something that propels a projectile using something explosive like gun powder.  You are right, BATF has no interest in airguns.

    As for local regulations of air rifles, most municipalities do regulate "Pellet" guns.  While BB guns are often overlooked, many small towns use a standardized set of city codes they subscribe to and approve on a regular basis.  The codes are created by the CODE PUBLISHING COMPANY of Seattle Washington.  I'm sure there are others, but this is the canned codes my town uses.

    Pellet guns are regulated, and pretty stupid.  Here's an example:

    9.82.030 Firearms: Firearms means pistols, revolvers, sawed off shotguns or sawed off rifles and or any device which can be used as a weapon from which is expelled a projectile by any force.

    By that definition, a BB is a firearm.  Pellet guns are definitely covered.  However, a compound hunting bow is probably not covered as a projectile isn't "Expelled".  Time to get the Lawyers involved!

    Further, 9.82.060 states: It is unlawful for any person to discharge or shoot any gun, pistol, or PELLET GUN within the city limits.  then it goes on with a  couple exceptions.  So, shooting a pellet gun is illegal under this code.  Most cities don't bother to read it, they just approve it.

    It's been this way for many years, this is nothing new.  

     

     

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    Bullfrog
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    This thread seems bizarre to me. The gist of it is that we need to lobby the airgun industry to stop increasing the performance of airguns. In other words, avoid the regulation of airguns by regulating airguns. How contradictory of an attitude is that?

    It sounds more like to me that a subset of low powered airgunners don't like a subset of more powerful airguns, sort of like how traditional archers might not like modern compound bows and want to limit their use. 

    The kind of government regulator that wants to take your guns away is going to do it whether you have 20fpe airguns or 500fpe airguns. Ask UK airgunners about it. The simple solution is to move away from jurisdictions ran by such people and move to places with free gun laws, or alternatively fight within your jurisdictions to make your jurisdiction gun friendly. The solution is NOT to de-evolve airguns in the hopes they won't get noticed. 

    Look, we all see the rampant commercialism woven within the airgun community. Its a double edged sword. It was the airgun industry working behind the scenes that went a long way into getting airgun hunting approved in Florida. And that is nothing but a good thing. The commercialism backfires when we start eating our own in order to eliminate the competition. We all know that happens too. It was strongly rumored that in the Texas fiasco where the hog hunters brought up the BS allegations to try to derail airgun hunting there, there was also a member of the industry also quietly supporting drastically higher airgun requirements by whispering in the commissioner's ears so as to eliminate competition and only have their own airguns eligible (and no it wasn't Airforce). Unfortunately that kind of crap does happen, and don't kid yourself about it or even about how various posts on forums about how this airgun is awesome and that one sucks. Some percentage of such posts are nothing but industry reps attacking the competition. Standard practice in any enterprise in this day and age of social media.

    But in large, where there's money, there's power, and power protects itself. And wherethe airgun industry is going to protect itself for its own gain, we all will gain to the extent that a lot of money can and will be spread around to protect air gunning when possible. Dividing us into different subsets of airgunners for an "us vs. them" attitude isn't healthy at all. 

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    bandg
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    Bullfrog

    This thread seems bizarre to me. The gist of it is that we need to lobby the airgun industry to stop increasing the performance of airguns. In other words, avoid the regulation of airguns by regulating airguns. How contradictory of an attitude is that?

    It sounds more like to me that a subset of low powered airgunners don't like a subset of more powerful airguns, sort of like how traditional archers might not like modern compound bows and want to limit their use. 

    The kind of government regulator that wants to take your guns away is going to do it whether you have 20fpe airguns or 500fpe airguns. Ask UK airgunners about it. The simple solution is to move away from jurisdictions ran by such people and move to places with free gun laws, or alternatively fight within your jurisdictions to make your jurisdiction gun friendly. The solution is NOT to de-evolve airguns in the hopes they won't get noticed. 

    Look, we all see the rampant commercialism woven within the airgun community. Its a double edged sword. It was the airgun industry working behind the scenes that went a long way into getting airgun hunting approved in Florida. And that is nothing but a good thing. The commercialism backfires when we start eating our own in order to eliminate the competition. We all know that happens too. It was strongly rumored that in the Texas fiasco where the hog hunters brought up the BS allegations to try to derail airgun hunting there, there was also a member of the industry also quietly supporting drastically higher airgun requirements by whispering in the commissioner's ears so as to eliminate competition and only have their own airguns eligible (and no it wasn't Airforce). Unfortunately that kind of crap does happen, and don't kid yourself about it or even about how various posts on forums about how this airgun is awesome and that one sucks. Some percentage of such posts are nothing but industry reps attacking the competition. Standard practice in any enterprise in this day and age of social media.

    But in large, where there's money, there's power, and power protects itself. And wherethe airgun industry is going to protect itself for its own gain, we all will gain to the extent that a lot of money can and will be spread around to protect air gunning when possible. Dividing us into different subsets of airgunners for an "us vs. them" attitude isn't healthy at all. 

    I missed the part about anyone needing to lobby the air gun industry for anything.  People are pointing out concerns about increasing air gun performance and how it might draw regulatory attention.   Seems that what is "healthy" depends on each persons opinion.  

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    rangur1
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    the apparent concern from the OP was back a little while ago, 177 and 22 were the name of the game, currently 25, 30 cal are moving to the forefront with semi auto and now full auto features. instead of 12-20 FPE bolt or lever action guns now there is widespread semi and full auto pushing 40-65 FPE. not even counting the big bores. i like 25 cal myself, but i am not kidding myself about the potential lethality of these items. to think that some anti gun tree huggers will not get motivated to severely clamp down on us is silly. maybe air should separate into 2 classes, small bore and big bore. big bore for what it was intended for – deer, coyote, hog. small bore for squirrel, pigeon, dove, starling, groung hog, woodchuck, etc. not to say we don't stick together, we have to. and we should also ally ourselves with NRA and fellow powder burners. i am a member of the NRA, and i don't have a firearm, but i still feel the essential need for them to lobby in our favor. just my 2 cents. MAY POWDER AND AIRGUN USE BY FREE CITIZENS PREVAIL!   

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    Bullfrog
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    Of course he’s talking about lobbying the airgun industry. He said he wants airgunners to organize to send the industry a message against high power airguns. In his previous thread he called for bannings and boycotts. Its really wierd rhetoric designed to divide and stir the pot. 

    Everyone take a deep breath and chill. If someone comes for your airguns, they would have been coming for them regardless as to how powerful they get. And by even framing the issue in terms of “OMG airguns have changed so much!” you’re doing more harm than good on a premise that’s actually false.

    Airguns haven’t changed that much in terms of killing power. If you think so, you don’t know your airgun history. They’ve changed more in finese and polish. So stop running around crying about how airguns are so much more deadly now. They were always deadly. You crying about it is drawing more attention to the issue than the airguns themselves. You’re making your conspiracy theory a self fullfilling prophesy. 

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    Geared4fun
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    If you can order  all but one piece of a AR15 true the mail and then get the final 80% completed receiver in the same mail with out any of it being called a firearm and then spend a hour with a router to complete a military style firearm then im sure airguns wil not be lumped in with regular firearms, a firearm is a very specific item as defined by the ATF but I totally agree that as soon as some media crazed incident occurs with a powerful airgun there will be regulations up the wazu and we will all miss the days of freedom past, personally i don't own anything larger than a .25 but that is only because i can't afford it I love the idea of being able to buy a .50 cal air rifle that is quieter than a rim fire 22 and many times more powerful right to my house in the mail with out any fuz but I know that those days are not going to last forever there used to be a time when you could order a tomson machine gun in the mail for $12.50 and that is long gone as will one day be the liberties we currently enjoy with out air guns that is just the way it is. I can't say I agree with it but i can say I won't be surprised when heavy regulation does finally occur i also will say I won't honestly be that upset about it I always obey the laws and when new rules for airguns come out I'll learn them obey them and have my fun were and when the law permits me too as all good American citizens should. 

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    bandg
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    Geared4fun

    If you can order  all but one piece of a AR15 true the mail and then get the final 80% completed receiver in the same mail with out any of it being called a firearm and then spend a hour with a router to complete a military style firearm then im sure airguns wil not be lumped in with regular firearms, a firearm is a very specific item as defined by the ATF but I totally agree that as soon as some media crazed incident occurs with a powerful airgun there will be regulations up the wazu and we will all miss the days of freedom past, personally i don't own anything larger than a .25 but that is only because i can't afford it I love the idea of being able to buy a .50 cal air rifle that is quieter than a rim fire 22 and many times more powerful right to my house in the mail with out any fuz but I know that those days are not going to last forever there used to be a time when you could order a tomson machine gun in the mail for $12.50 and that is long gone as will one day be the liberties we currently enjoy with out air guns that is just the way it is. I can't say I agree with it but i can say I won't be surprised when heavy regulation does finally occur i also will say I won't honestly be that upset about it I always obey the laws and when new rules for airguns come out I'll learn them obey them and have my fun were and when the law permits me too as all good American citizens should. 

    Agree totally.  It isn't whether it's logical or not but whether it might serve the interest of politicians.  And I would consider the British situation before stating that all of them would be attacked although that is possible as well.

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