A plus for gas Rams ?

Why would you think a gas ram has the same stored energy potential during it's entire travel? It's very much like a spring only pneumatic instead of mechanical.

I put a gas ram in a CFX several years ago and hated it. It was way to harsh to shoot, put the spring back in.

Why would you think a gas ram has the same stored energy potential during it's entire travel? It's very much like a spring only pneumatic instead of mechanical.

Click to expand...

I agree with leadfoot, but even if you were right, so what? How does that have any affect on launching a pellet at a particular velocity? What would make that a "huge selling point"?

Have a lot of gas ram rifles and really like them. However they are difficult to design and manufacture. When HW purchased the rights to make one (the HW-90), they found that their engineers couldn't design it to their satisfaction and had Theoben design the action for them. That rifle has been produced for over 25 years now, and have shot rifles with 100-2--K rounds through them with no repairs. Not sure how well the new offerings work or whether they will withstand the test of time.

That said, I have never noticed the phenomenon you describe. The action is quick, smooth and produces only a nice thud instead of a lot of piston bounce. Maybe you are referring to the decreased feel of stacking on the cocking stroke? As good as they may be, IMHO, nothing is better than a complete Paul Watts springer tune.

If you are thinking of a gas ram purchase, you might want to consider the HW-90 or the sealed drop in units made by Theoben (hard to find) and Tom Gore. All have good track records.

Why would you think a gas ram has the same stored energy potential during it's entire travel? It's very much like a spring only pneumatic instead of mechanical.

Click to expand...

No as the coil unwind it slows and changes speed, not much and probably not really measurable of how miniscule that measurement would be in something like a little air gun. The selling point as far as gas struts go, I dint need a spring compressor to take it apart, if I needed to in the field doubtful, but if I was on a weekend camp I might to try in fix it. You can leave a gas strut cocked forever if you wanted to. You don't have to tune out the torsion you get with a spring. No sleeves or top hat guide or a shot load of grease or moly paste needed. I don't think heat or cold effect the gas ram like a coiled spring. Springs expand and contract with temp. That could effect POI/POA.....To be clear I've had several spring guns and when tuned are great. The last Springer I had was a Swiss arms tac1. I hadn't had a Springer in a long time and wanted to relive my teens by slicking it up, but it just didn't get where I wanted and stock wouldn't group worth shot, then I tried a Crosman NP, and have never gone back to springs. A matter of fact all my buddies stuck their sprinters in the closet and bought NPs, they just start grouping well right off the shelf, and even better when you tune the rest of the gun....For what it's worth with the NPs, me and my buddies have come to the conclusion, the 177 is the choice for the smaller NP1 and 22 with the Larger NP2. 22 in NP1 seemed to be lacking in power, and the 177 with the Larger piston seemed to create more fliers, even with 10.5s. I suppose we could have tested heavier pellets.

I would say there is no difference. What difference there might be is a moot point.

I'm sorry about the miss spelling, my Damon device around corrects during the posting process. 

I think with a metal coiled spring you would see a small difference in performance to to extreme cold and heat as it can effect the metal enough to change its rate of unwinding. Like you say golden probably not noticeable. The big plus I think is the longevity of the ram vs spring especially when you give one to a teenage boy. He's gonna shoot that thing a tin a day for the first month

i have both. two 'springers'...an AA ProSport and a RWS 54 both in 22 cal.

i also have an RX1 beeman in 20 cal and an HW90 in 22 caliber.

the ProSport and 54 have the edge in accuracy. the Beeman and HW are very reliable and have adjustability.

i like 'em all...

JW652 and Donwalk are super posts. JW652 has “been there and done that”. Donwalk has experience that concurs with my experience.

I owed owned a Crow Mag. Why did I sell it? Because, I am a dumb ass. The gas rams shoot with reliability over a long time without problems. They are just as reliable as the gas struts that hold up minivan rear doors. With all their wonderful merits.......a tuned spring gun will out shoot them for accuracy. So for competition, go with tuned springers like myTX200 and HW77. For plinking and hunting and fun for adolescences, go go gas piston

I have been looking at the Proxima gas ram. I love walnut, I love thumbhole stocks, and under levers. I would like to hear from my airgun pals......Do you have any experience with this affordable kit?

Aint it great.....our purchasing quest never ends.

Enjoy!

DonC

All I know is that my gas ram gun is progressively harder to cock toward the end of the cocking stroke just like my spring gun is. The gas ram gun is harder to cock overall yet the spring gun has a little higher velocity. I don't think one technology is any better than the other overall. I do like the fact that if my spring breaks, I can still shoot the gun although at lower velocity while I wait for a new spring. The last time, my spring broke in two places and I was still able to shoot accurately with it at reduced velocity and a new spring only cost me $19. I do have a Vortek spring in my spring gun and it has a smoother shot cycle than the gas ram gun. The ram on your trunk lid is made differently than the one used in an air gun. They are more appropriately called dampers and are designed to operate slowly by allowing the gas and/or fluid to flow on both sides of the piston. If you want to know, in great detail, the differences between them, then check out these patents for each.

Gas spring for trunk lid: https://patents.google.com/patent/US4433759

Gas spring for air gun: https://patents.google.com/patent/US5193517A/en

fishinwrench: "I tested it. It takes the same amount of pressure to go the last 1/2" as it does the first 1/2".

If you measured it by the amount of pressure it takes to cock it, remember there is a mechanical advantage depending on where the hinge pin is located. If you were to place it on the ground with the strut up, then push down, you would see you continually need to add pressure to compress the ram.

In any event, I know what you mean. My Benjamin Steel Eagle NP2 cocks very smooth, with very little stacking. The difference in the perceived shot cycle between that and my Beeman R1is very different. It might be due to the power difference in that my NP2 has 18FPE, and my R1 (HW80) which has a Vortek spring kit, only has 13FPE, but the NP2 really has a SNAP to it. With the R1 I can keep the scope focused on the target during the shot, not so with the NP2. I know some Weihrauch owners will yell "HERESY!!!", but they are both very accurate guns.

Speaking from an engineering perspective first, the gas ram [generally speaking] should have a smoother shot-cycle, but I question that in some regards depending on how certain manufacturer's build their hardware.

In both cases, the nitrogen ram and the spring should both reach their end of travel with the piston before the pellet ever leaves the barrel, so the differences are probably moot in that regard in terms of force. Even if the spring is losing retained energy as it decompresses, it should still be accelerating throughout most of its stroke, same as the gas ram. On paper, the only thing that should slow either of them down is an opposing force (such as air pressure built up in the piston).