60~ FPE For Medium Game Test

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I'm not doubting your hunting abilities or your ability to take game with an airgun. I'm merely stating the fact that shooting through a wallet and particle board doesn't prove anything - except that you can shoot through a wallet and particle board. 

That gives no one any real indication of how it's going to behave when the pellet encounters the hide, skeletal structure, organs, etc. It's not really replicating anything. I've personally never seen an animal made out of particle boards and wallets. A pellet may behave very differently when it enters an actual animal. 

I fail to see how this "replicates a real world hunting hunting condition" (unless you're hunting in a particle board factory) nor do I see how particle board is a "good representation of a thick skull". These statements are a bit of a stretch. 

No need to be hostile over some very fair criticism. I'm sure 60 FPE will work for medium game, but I don't see how shooting through a wallet and particle board proves that.
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Not being hostile, you simply inferred the test useless and I invited you not to participate in its discussion due to your disapproval. There are plenty of studies that suggest 3/4" particle board fairly represent the skull of medium+ sized game...



FWIW MDF board density = 700 kg/m3, typical bone density is in the area of 1900 kg/m3...typical skull thickness of medium game is roughly 1/4", 1/3rd of the MDF board thickness, I used in my test. If you do all the math that means this implies that it'll go through medium sized games skull and then some, provided good shot placement...
 
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More perspective on extreme angles...0 degrees is a complete miss...45 degrees is half way there...do you consider 50% of a miss a good shot to take? Food for thought. 



Very valid point considering 25 caliber air guns. However a 50% Miss with a 12 gauge slug would be a whole different story. Even lowly 45 ACP at 45 degrees will probably take half the head off of a raccoon. In Reading about skull shots in powder burners numerous reports of 38 specials and even 45 ACP and 9 mm failing to penetrate a human skull at an angle. Angle shots on hard dense bone often problematic. I'm sure a jsb 25 MK2 heavy to the lungs would be a higher percentage shot. However the raccoon would probably walk off up to 20 yards even with great placement.
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Heres a real world test. The air rifle used in this pic is my Air Arms S510 in .22 cal. It was tuned to shoot 16 gr. JSB with 15 fpe @ the muzzle. The shots were taken at 25 yds so the pellet was somewhere around 10-12 fpe at impact. Theres 5 dead coons in this pic. The coons were about 12 feet up in a tree so that gives an idea of angles. I have bigger guns but theres no way I would be able to use a .22 long rifle in this area.


 
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Very nice LDP, you just showed it takes very little fpe at the muzzle with well placed shots. My simulation tests were just to build confidence and assure myself taking a shot at a yote within range for me would be ethical. My test concluded that pretty firmly for me. 

I've shot similar sized small-medium game but never imagined it could be done so well with just 15 fpe. I have a 20 fpe tune I run on my .25 cal that would probably do the job just as well on similar sized game. Thanks for sharing!



-Matt
 
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Shoot a fresh dead animal. If you do you will have quality data to draw your conclusions from.
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Mathematical models are commonly generated to verify outcomes prior to real world tests in MANY applications. I wanted to simulate and perform a test prior to ever lining up a shot on a fox/yote ect...you don't need to subscribe to my model or idea, but its pretty conclusive for me and I am sure others :)
 
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Matt you are welcome. It takes allot less power than most people think to penetrate skulls for clean kills. The problem as you drop power and start to get closer to that minimum it takes exact shot placement. The shooter has to know their limits as far as accuracy and also know when to take the shot. Some people just cant do that or they are not completely honest with themselves about the ability to do it so you read stories about animals that are armor played or squirrels that are so tough they survive headshots from 30 fpe rifles. Thats just not the case. 

Things still go wrong and you can have a bad hit so lower powers not for everyone. For the people who truly know how to use low power you have excellent results with less chance of collateral damage. 
 
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LDP I presume those are shots to the head at close to 90 degrees while the coons up in a tree. Shot with those lower energy pellets hitting the head at a angle probably would fail to penetrate the skull. The coon might at a dizzy and fall out the the tree allowing a follow up. :)

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Not even close. My post says they are 25 yds away 12 feet up. Does that sound like a 90 degree shot? You know what they say when you assume something. Are you insinuating I knocked the coons from the tree then finished them off? If thats the case thats one of the funniest things I have read today. Each coon took a killing head shot in the tree and dropped dead from the tree. Im guessing you are one of those that says squirrels need more than 30 fpe to the head for a clean kill. Tell that to the guy who kills large wild boars with a .22 cal evanix rainstorm.
 
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Most Small game = 3-5 FPE @ off switch = dead, that includes birds, rabbits and squirrels...I have no doubt 15-20 FPE is plenty for small+ to -medium game. My personal test with 50+ fpe at target tells me just about any animal that takes a well placed shot in its trajectory is dead on the spot, only very large full grown game stand a chance to that...now am I going to go testing this concept in real life and graduate each kill shot to a larger animal? Likely not, I still like to, like many others, take shots that you know have PLENTY of take down power for what you're hunting. I have no doubt there are skull/bone densities out there that will just deflect 50~ FPE like its 5, especially at poor angles...but I think that would be more along the lines of full grown adult large+ game. JMO! FWIW I don't actively hunt medium or large game, I would only dispatch one if it were a threat / nuisance personally. 



In the UK @ 50 yards a sub 12 fpe rifle will only be 7-8 FPE at target and they can hunt plenty :)



-Matt
 
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The line about knocking them out the tree was a joke. Note the smiley face. My apologies if you took it the wrong way and got offended. My 1st sentence was what I believe you did which as to get a great angle and shot placement to take out the brain in spike of the low energy pellet.
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No worries or hard feelings thats why I said if it was meant in that way. Text never comes across as easily as words.
 
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Let's not forget there are other shots that are fatal, I dont shoot deer in the head and have taken a lot. The penetration tests give you an idea but there is no substitute for real world experiance. Most applications we use PCPs for we have more than enough energy to get the job done. As many have said shot placement is key. I dont know of a critter big or small that survives a double lung heart shot. My experience on woodchucks and raccoons has been any pellet over 800fps and In the ear equals dead right there. I like the side of the head over the between the eyes shot, but that's me and just due to taking numerous critters with great success. Good discussion though and knowing your limits is key. 
 
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I have seen a few videos on youtube taking havalina/hog with a head shot DRT, 30cal boss from 50 or 60 meter cant remember and a small deer maybe 100lbs with a heart shot at 50 meters with i think was a .25cal, the dear jumped like he got stung by a bee staggered like he/she was drunk and droped dead. With good shot placement these air guns are no joke.
 
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The state of Texas just recently passed new less restrictive air gun laws. They place the minimal exceptable for coon at a 30 caliber pcp. I guess because they are stupid? They and every other sporting group in existance fail to see the nobility in the taking of game with the least power possible. Only airgunners embrace that. Think this dont get read by others outside the community think again. It does and only serves to enforce the perception air gunners are not to be trusted.


 
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The state of Texas just recently passed new less restrictive air gun laws. They place the minimal exceptable for coon at a 30 caliber pcp. I guess because they are stupid? They and every other sporting group in existance fail to see the nobility in the taking of game with the least power possible. Only airgunners embrace that. Think this dont get read by others outside the community think again. It does and only serves to enforce the perception air gunners are not to be trusted.

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Theres minimum energy levels that are put into place by fish and game so the ignorant people who dont know how to correctly harvest game have less chance of maiming animals. If you think 30 fpe is the bare minimum to take an 18 lb. animal ethically how do you explain all the butchers and ranchers who take down 2,000+ lb cattle with a 22 short or 22 long rifle?

Even with minimum fpe or caliber restrictions people still end up maiming elk with cartridges as large as 300 win mag. Until they dont allow people to hunt without proving they are smart enough to understand when and where to shoot at game animals you will see wounded game that die days or months later regardless of caliber or fpe restrictions. You cant fix ignorant or stupid and you cant regulate it either. I say use as large a caliber and energy that YOU need to make an ethical kill and I will keep using what I need to make an ethical kill.
 
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