.25 caliber slug liner & slug testing results (for real this time) Lots of pics!

Forums Pellets, Projectiles, Slugs, & Ammo .25 caliber slug liner & slug testing results (for real this time) Lots of pics!

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    stoti
    Participant
    Member

    Hello everyone,

    Today I decided to post the results of my initial slug liner and slug testing. I know this isn't probably the best way to go about sharing the info, but it is certainly going to be the easiest and this way, you'll have every single little scrap of information, just like I do. Not sure how else to do this, other than posting pictures of my notes and the targets I shot so anybody that wants the info can simply look at the numbers for the slugs I tested. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to get a hold of me and I'll clarify anything necessary. The info I have so far is all here, you just have to wade through it, use what you need and disregard the rest. Like I said, there will be plenty more before I'm done. I'm not affiliated with any of the slug manufacturers or FX in any way and I'm certainly not a professional shooter or anything like that. I'm just doing some slug testing and decided to share what I've learned so far.

    This has been a nightmare… basically the slug liner didn't shoot anything except the JSB 33.95gr. MKII phenomenally well. Better than the original liner that came with my Crown when new. For reference, I shot a 10 shot group with the MKII's, it was 3/8" @ 50yds.  I'm not trying to bash on FX at all here, I love FX guns, the people at FX, etc… I'm just trying to put all of the data out there for all of you and be 100% honest about it.

    When I got the 600mm .25cal  liner, I cleaned it very well and installed it in my FX Crown. I was so excited I decided to go out and shoot a few slugs to see what it could do… Oh my, as you can see on the first targets, it was bad, not good at all! I would get very strange groups… two slugs together, then one 3 inches to the right and then one 2 inches high left. All over, with no rhyme or reason. Because things didn't look good, I didn't even begin to test the slugs thoroughly until I had more answers. I ended up making some calls and finding out what I could. I talked to Mr. Nielsen at Nielsen slugs, he told me the liners shot the heavier 36-39gr. slugs best. I talked to the owner of Rat Sniper and was told the lighter 25-28gr. slugs shoot the best. I talked to FX and was told the 32-36gr slugs shoot the best. I was getting confused so I got a hold of Matt Dubber who did much of the testing with the .25 cal. liner. He told me that he didn't remember a velocity but that the 34 and 39gr. slugs shot the best in his testing. He also told me that he had a lot more shooting time with the .22 liners so he couldn't help me as much as he'd like to. With a little bit of information in hand, I decided to start from square one.

    At the advice of Dale, the owner of Varmint Knocker Slugs, I ended up polishing my slug liner. I used 320 grit, 400 grit, 1000 grit and finally with 2000 grit. I did the whole barrel but focused a lot of my effort on the choke. After I polished the liner, I cleaned it very well, reinstalled it and then began my testing. The slugs being tested are by the following manufacturers… 

    AONCO   25.4, 32.8 and 45 grain  

    NIELSEN   34.7, 36, AND 39 grain

    WICKED MONSTER   25.5, 32 grain.

    RAT SNIPER   31.3 grain.

    H&N Grizzly   31 grain

    VARMINT KNOCKER   26 WMB, 26 DHB, 28 WMB, 28 DHB, 28 DHB-DHP, 30 WMB, 30 DHB, 30.4 DB, 30.4 FB, 31 FB, 31 DB, 31.5 FB, 31.5 DB,  32 FB, 32 DB, 32.5 DB, 32.5 FB, 32.80 FB-SHP, 32.80 DB-SHP, 34 DB-LHP, 34 FB-LHP, 35 DB-LHP, 35 FB-LHP grain. 

    I also did a little bit of testing initially with the MKI JSB's but then I also tried the MKII's and was astonished how well they shot! I shot a few groups with the 33.95gr. MKII, just to get baseline for velocity and accuracy numbers. I think initially the MKII was shooting at 885fps. As I messed with my gun's settings as the testing progressed, the MKII's were consistently flying down range with an average velocity of around 900fps.

    So, here you go. These are all the pictures of my notes, pictures of the targets and everything I have. You will see in some of the first pictures of targets that the slug holes are all over the place, scattered like I shotgun blast. I know, it's bad! I want to assure you though, I am a quite capable shooter which is part of the reason I shot a 10 shot group at 50yds with the JSB MKII"s. I wanted you to see that the barrel liner is going to shoot the slugs and definitely already does shoot the pellets great. It's just going to come down to finding the exact velocity, slug weight and shape that the liner likes the best. In the beginning of my testing, I just shot a couple 4-5 shot groups to see if there was any hope at all for the particular slug I was testing. After talking to Dale Riggert at Varmint Knocker, he told me that after switching from one slug to the next, I needed to shoot 2-3 shots before shooting groups with the new slug. I had heard this before but thought it was baloney. Why would changing the grain weight or shape of a slug have anything to do with in shooting well or poorly after shooting a very similar slug? Dale told me to do it! He said it was absolutely a fact that the liner needed to settle in after changing grain weights of the slugs I was shooting. So in some of the first photographs of targets, some of the groups might be 3 shots, 5 shots or 7 shots. I wasn't dialed in at that point. As I got dialed in, I started shooting 2-3 shots to let the liner settle and then I shot 2- 5 shot groups. These are the groups that I took close up pictures of with the ruler for comparison!  I hope this information helps some of you at least a little bit. It has taken me many, many hours already and I'm just finally to the point where I've selected 4-5 slugs to re-test at different velocities and distances. If you have any questions, as I'm sure you will, because my notes look like chicken scratch, please feel free to get a hold of me. I'll help all I can. My notes are super messy because I never intended to take pictures and post them this way. Please do with this information whatever you can to shorten your learning curve with the slugs and FX liner!!! Here it is, finally!

                                                            

    That's what I have so far. I know the verbiage I used to describe the accuracy of each slug isn't the most accurate… good, very good, great, awesome. However, It wasn't my intention to take pictures of my notes and share with everybody. I was going to just make a short synapses and share that with you. When it came down to it though, I've already spent a lot of time trying to figure this all out. I didn't want to have to rewrite it all for all of you. This way, you can look at what I did and take what you will from it. I didn't know how else to do it.  I started out with way too many slugs which was more of a hindrance than anything else. I also changed my gun's settings from time to time to check a theory I would have every once in a while. I would do things differently if I was to do it over but I can't now. When it's all said and done, I will have some definitive answers for you, at least those of you with a 600mm FX slug liner. It just might be a while! I hope it helps some of you at least a little bit. There will be a lot more testing and a lot more information when I have can find some more time! Have a great day!

    Stoti

     

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    Bob_O
    Participant
    Member

    Holy cripe Kevin…..if I'd done that much testing, I'd have needed an indoor facility otherwise I'd have died from hypothermia where I live!!

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    Wiseguy
    Participant
    Member

    Holy S*****t! lost me at the 20th pic…😖

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    edosan
    Participant
    Member

    Can you post an executive summary please? 😂

    You lost me in today! 🤣

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    Bob_O
    Participant
    Member

    It's testing like this that's worth the read IMO. 

    Not just "I shot all these and these two did the best".

    Nice work Kevin.  My note taking sucks in comparison.

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    Spray1Mark
    Participant
    Member

    Very comprehensive, I am very interested in you trying to reduce the choke though, did you slug a pellet after the polishing? how much looser was the pellet?

    I ask this because I know people who have just shortened the barrel, thereby giving a chokeless liner, this has given better results (.22) although only a few projectiles were tested.

     

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    Almeidaken
    Participant
    Member

    Dude, Thats looks like a PHD thesis lab results. The detail is incredible, I may have to go through it again. I did understand that Grizzlies and Drig performed well in 28-31 grains. Incredible work 

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    tibor
    Participant
    Member

    thats totally impressive..geez!

    ok after all that what do you like better pellets or slugs?

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    jwrabbit123
    Participant
    Member

    ha ha I thought same thing , I would of been frozen to my gun in cold  he he ,

    I do not understand all your avviebrations and you please pot what all mean for me like

    FP =flat point , rn =round nose , rbt=rebutted boat tail , ,

    also show me pic of your best slug and your worst please so I can look at slug as you said your twist is 1-21?

    What is your crown angle ? in mine this makes a difference with the ammo I use , so fx has slug liners out now for 25 cal? or is this jut x liner

    LOU

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    stoti
    Participant
    Member

    Edosan, I'm still getting there. I realize this is a lot of information and not really the best way to share it with everyone. For that I'm sorry, I wish I knew a better way to share it with you. I suggest looking at the targets with the best groups or a slug you're familiar with and then looking at my notes to see at which velocity the slug was shot. There are quite a few groups that were 3/8"-1/2" at 50yds with a flier here or there. Those are really good groups with slugs! If I could take a flier away from each group, some of these groups would be phenomenal for hunting! I still have a lot of work to do to get it dialed in.

    What I have found is that there is a lot more to the results than just the slug weight, there is more to it than that.. When I first started testing the slugs, it looked like the slugs on the lighter side(25.4-28gr.) were shooting best. However, as I progressed I found the slugs in the 30-32.8gr range and the 35gr. with the flat base or slightly curved base were shooting best. The shape of hollow point effected accuracy too. The large hollow points are shooting better than the small ones. Why, I don't know. So you see, it's not just the weight that effects accuracy, it's also the base, the tip and the velocity. That's why I have so much more testing, there are so many variables. After I started to dial things in a bit, I got a hold of D-Rig. He made me a whole bunch of slugs in the weight range I found to work best, between 30-32.8gr. Each of those slugs were made with the large hollow point, and up to three different bases per slug weight to try and dial it in even further. 

    So far, the 35gr. FB-LHP @ about 875fps is shooting exceptionally well. The 32DB @ about 900fps is great! The 31.5DB at just over 900fps is shooting very well. The 31.5FB at about 890fps is shooting very well. The 31FB at about 905fps shoots really well too. Check these ones out to start. They all show great promise! I'm going to focus on the 30gr-32.8gr and the 35gr. slugs with a large hollow point and either a flat, slightly  dished base. Of course I will share when I have some more information. Again, I am sorry I couldn't share all of this information in a easier manner.

    LOU- All of the abbreviations are Dale's. He puts those on the bag before he sends them to me to keep track of which, base and tip they're made with. This is the 1:21 twist slug liner in .25cal. shot out of my FX Crown with the 2018 power tune kit installed. Below are a couple of pictures of the best shooting slugs. Either a flat base or modified flat base with a large hollow point and weights ranging from 31.5gr to 35gr. Hope this helps. Stoti 

     

     

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    mantech30
    Participant
    Member

    We need more R&D from "Slug Liner" companies (600mm vs 700, Twist Rates etc…) for a proven bolt on application.  Building barrels around a particular pellet has been the standard thus far.  They would have to build a slug barrel around a certain slug as well.

     I think this is still in its infancy stage. 

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    stoti
    Participant
    Member

    Spray1Mark – I didn't really try and increase the diameter of the choke as much as just polish it and the whole barrel a bit. I wasn't aggressive at all. It didn't have a huge effect on anything. There was just a slight difference in accuracy. Once I figured out that the liner liked the flat base slugs and the large hollow points, that's when I asked Dale to make me the slugs in the 30-35gr. weight range with a large hollow point and flat base. I think the results will get impressive from here on out. Now I can really start experimenting with different velocities to see what's possible.

    Tibor – I'll use the 33.95 MKII pellets under 100yds and the slugs for over 100yds. I love the accuracy of the 33.95's but I really like to shoot at long distances and some of D-Rigs slugs have a BC of .097-.099. That kind of BC cuts the drop almost in half at 150yds! I can't wait to find the best shooting slug and start testing it at long ranges. That's the whole point of shooting slugs!

    Stoti

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    RenoTwolf
    Participant
    Member

    Great research. I have a .25 Crown and a new slug liner to test. I know results may vary but thank you for the information to review.

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    edosan
    Participant
    Member

    stoti, nothing to be sorry about, just joking around, impressive work, keep them coming! ;)

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    stoti
    Participant
    Member

    Edosan, I know. I am a little sorry the information isn't a little more clear, concise and easier to make sense of though! The five slugs in the picture are all made by Dale or D-Rig at Varmint Knocker. He makes a great product and all of the slugs in the picture shoot very well. They're the slugs I'm going to focus on in the near future as I proceed with my testing. He makes a great product and usually has orders to me within a few days. D-Rig has been a huge help, custom making whatever I want and getting them to me fast so I can keep testing. I've given every slug a fair chance to find the absolute best shooter but because Dale is making me custom slugs to order, exactly what I want, they've been shooting the best! I can't wait to see what the future hold with these slugs and long range shooting!!!

    Stoti

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    D-RIG
    Spectator
    Spectator

    Man you want to talk about some thorough testing I think we have it right here ,

    I don't get this comprehensive with my testing " What a great job Kevin "   

     

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    steppenwulf
    Participant
    Member

    WOW!  great project and thanks for sharing.

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    stoti
    Participant
    Member

    You've been a great help Dale! I'm not anywhere near done yet but am pretty excited for what's to come. This last batch of slugs you sent with the flat bases, or modified flat bases, have definitely been shooting the best out of all the slugs I've tried. If you look at some of the first groups in the pictures compared to these last groups, there's a huge difference. I couldn't have done it without your help and I really appreciate it. I'll keep you up to date with any additional findings! 

    I know the flat or modified flat bases are shooting best in the weight range of 31gr. to 32.8. The only thing we didn't try in this last selection of slugs was the 2-S tip. I don't know if they'll be as accurate as the big hollow points that are shooting so well, but they do carry velocity a little better. I'd love to see if any of the 5 slugs in the picture above that are shooting so great would shoot  as well with the 2-S tip. If they do shoot as well, we'd have the benefit of some added velocity. What do you think?

    Thank you Dale!!!

    Stoti

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    AirgunBill
    Participant
    Member

    I appreciate you sharing your information and no need to apologize for the format. Any information shared can help others in their quest to shoot slugs. I was lucky enough to find a slug fairly quickly that shot very well out of my AF Condor in .22 caliber. I have already nailed a few pigeons with the slugs and they really anchor a pigeon with a solid hit. Bill

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    HM-HEN
    Participant
    Member

    Hello, Stoti.
    I'm very glad to read your post. I admire your rigorous testing. To be honest, I've been studying slug since last year. I made a lot. But except for the accuracy of HUBEN K1 SLUG. All other slugs fly inaccurately in the barrel of the airgun. I summarized some of my experiences. Please tell me if my understanding is correct:

    1、Barrel shooting slug should not have chokes.

    2、Barrel shooting slug shouldn't have too many grooves. The barrel of conventional pellets shooting is 10-12 grooves. That's too much. These barrels produce a lot of friction when they shoot slug.

    3、The airgun power for shooting slug should be strong enough. Otherwise, too low FPS will not allow slug to fly stably.

    There's a lot more I want to say. But my English is not good. I don't know how to express it. In any case. I'm looking forward to your next test. Good luck.

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