Also, you can add another Belleville washer to the reg to increase the set point more, or rearrange the existing washers. I haven't done this, but there are YT vids showing this.
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.22 over 80ft and .25 over 95 ft lb. How?
- Thread starter 2fast2furious
- Start date
You know after reading this thread, I can't help to think "Why are you guys shooting 22lr instead?" I modified several air guns to extreme powers before. They all ended up, not very accurate and unpleasant to shoot, and had such a low shot count that I did not want to shoot them. With such a low shot count, you start trying to hunt you will need to carry your fill bottle around with you and fill every 2-3 shots or so. Then the recoil is so nasty that can't track you projectile to it's target and that is important to watch stability and the trajectory.
Really, in .22 cal my cut off is around 50fpe or (maybe 60fpe) before that benefits of high power don't out overpower the downfalls of low shot count, violent shooting, and inability to track your projectile in flight.
Just my thoughts....feel free to disagree.
Really, in .22 cal my cut off is around 50fpe or (maybe 60fpe) before that benefits of high power don't out overpower the downfalls of low shot count, violent shooting, and inability to track your projectile in flight.
Just my thoughts....feel free to disagree.
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Yes you are right about low shotcount but since in here we are not allowed to hunt its unrelevant. Ppl run their rigs from bench with external regs and its 100% paper punching with best BC possible. Recoil is killed with muzzlebrakes and in 22/257 you can track really well. Now to why airgun instead of 22RF. You can build and modify your airgun freely but 22RF is not option unless you have gunsmith rights and also I have neighbours closer than 150m from my lot so it would be illegal to fire 22RF on my property but I can do so freely with an airgun and since my property is enough large to have shootingrange next to my house but not far enough from neighbours to use 22RF its pretty clear and simple solution. What comes to maxing out I do not really recomend it when it comes to standard small bore airguns they tend to suffer via harmonics and too much is too much if your gun isnt designed for it. Generally this thing is like upgrading your car 200bhp surely gets you from place a to b but yet there are alot of ppl going for max. Makes no sense and its totally useless but sure is interesting.
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In many cases I would completely agree with you on the shot count. That was until, I got a gun that made the higher power levels easily. I think that is the determining factor on whether or not it makes sense to shoot a .22 air gun at higher power levels. If you have a non bottle gun that you have to push pretty hard to make that power, then it becomes a hunting only gun, and only for specific uses. However, now that I have a gun that does it easily, it changes everything. My current gun is shooting 31.2 grain at 65 fpe, and it can do it for 54 shots, before I need a refill. That's on a 480cc bottle too. The recoil isn't nasty at all, and the gun isn't being pushed too hard to do it.
I will be honest, I've never completely understood recoil issues on a small caliber air gun. Having grown up shooting mostly powder burners, there are few air guns that actually have a recoil worth mentioning for me, or have a recoil that actually causes any negative affect on my shots. I never really got in the practice of tracking the projectile to target either. Although, I do completely understand the reasoning behind it. Especially, when you're shooting pellets at lower velocities. I know how they can de-stabilize at certain speeds and distances, so tracking them can definitely be important. My eyes have gotten to the point where I couldn't track them if I wanted to anyway now, lol.
I guess I'm saying I understand your points, but with the right gun/tune/ammo, they are much less an issue. I'm not disagreeing, so much as I'm saying those things aren't always an issue
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Steve123, Jiikuu, and Rallyshark,
Great discussion here, thx for the input. If a person can solve this issues with super HP .22, then it would be good airgun to have. +1 for you all who contributed to much post.
Great discussion here, thx for the input. If a person can solve this issues with super HP .22, then it would be good airgun to have. +1 for you all who contributed to much post.
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@Rallyshark there actually is pretty bad muzzlejump with max power tune airguns even small bore ones. Would I call it recoil no. Its mainly massive soft push that causes your barrel to jump.
Here is an example. This is my texan shooting with muzzlebrake wrapped 20layer of paper around it to see how pressure is devided yet if you watch shooters shoulder you can notice fair decent ammount of push applied on it even tho brake is killing most of it and as a shooter you cant even notice that movement.
https://youtu.be/8UpQURXWnus
Here is an example. This is my texan shooting with muzzlebrake wrapped 20layer of paper around it to see how pressure is devided yet if you watch shooters shoulder you can notice fair decent ammount of push applied on it even tho brake is killing most of it and as a shooter you cant even notice that movement.
https://youtu.be/8UpQURXWnus
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That's a pretty cool test! Perhaps, I should re-word my previous statement a little. There can most certainly be some recoil, and some barrel movement. I was merely speaking about any amount of recoil that would cause me any accuracy issues. I mean, no air gun, short of a big bore, is going to have enough recoil to even come close to many powder burners. Heck, I've never seen a .22 air gun with recoil that even approaches a strong RF cartridge, yet people manage to shoot those RF very accurately. If the actual recoil of an air gun is causing you issues, it should be a matter of the shooter practicing until they are used to it.
The bigger issue would be muzzle flip/jump and even barrel movement(harmonics or otherwise), as you mention. Some guns can most definitely lose accuracy at higher power levels, simply because the mounting system of the barrel couldn't deal with it. As I mentioned earlier in my reply to davidsng, I don't disagree with him at all. I'm just saying those higher power level tunes can work very well on some air guns with no real negative affects is all I spent many hours on previous guns trying to make them handle a high power tune and work well doing it. On my previous Flashpup build, the gun could go as high as 85 fpe in .22, but it wasn't a very useful tune. The shot count was junk, and the gun had to be pushed very hard to get there. The happy place for that gun ended up being right around 55 fpe, and it would only manage that for around 24 shots unregulated. It was worse regulated.
There are many reasons I prefer the higher powered air gun to a .22 RF. The first is noise level. I like the idea of target shooting without ear protection. I also like the idea of not letting every critter in the vicinity know there's a dude with a gun if I'm hunting, haha. The second is ammo cost and availability. The third is customization of tunes and projectiles to a certain job. There's just so much more flexibility to the air gun vs the PB. Oh, and there's the $$ side of taming the bark of a PB too. Still, this is a good discussion, and I understand not everyone has a need or use for a fire breathing .22 air gun. Many people's uses are covered just fine by 30 fpe and pellets. I do so much long range target shooting, and hunting of critters that require good penetration and a good BC. I'm at the point where, I don't even shoot pellets at all anymore. Even my little house gun is tuned to shoot the 12.5 grain NSA slugs at 850 fps. After the house gun, my other .177 lives in the 45fpe range, my .22 in the 65 fpe range, and my .30 in the 110 fpe range. That happens work very well for me, but it certainly may not be the case for others..
The bigger issue would be muzzle flip/jump and even barrel movement(harmonics or otherwise), as you mention. Some guns can most definitely lose accuracy at higher power levels, simply because the mounting system of the barrel couldn't deal with it. As I mentioned earlier in my reply to davidsng, I don't disagree with him at all. I'm just saying those higher power level tunes can work very well on some air guns with no real negative affects is all
I spent many hours on previous guns trying to make them handle a high power tune and work well doing it. On my previous Flashpup build, the gun could go as high as 85 fpe in .22, but it wasn't a very useful tune. The shot count was junk, and the gun had to be pushed very hard to get there. The happy place for that gun ended up being right around 55 fpe, and it would only manage that for around 24 shots unregulated. It was worse regulated.There are many reasons I prefer the higher powered air gun to a .22 RF. The first is noise level. I like the idea of target shooting without ear protection. I also like the idea of not letting every critter in the vicinity know there's a dude with a gun if I'm hunting, haha. The second is ammo cost and availability. The third is customization of tunes and projectiles to a certain job. There's just so much more flexibility to the air gun vs the PB. Oh, and there's the $$ side of taming the bark of a PB too. Still, this is a good discussion, and I understand not everyone has a need or use for a fire breathing .22 air gun. Many people's uses are covered just fine by 30 fpe and pellets. I do so much long range target shooting, and hunting of critters that require good penetration and a good BC. I'm at the point where, I don't even shoot pellets at all anymore. Even my little house gun is tuned to shoot the 12.5 grain NSA slugs at 850 fps. After the house gun, my other .177 lives in the 45fpe range, my .22 in the 65 fpe range, and my .30 in the 110 fpe range. That happens work very well for me, but it certainly may not be the case for others..
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HATERS gonna hate. Ask them to show you their work. That always tones that sort down.Upvote 0
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We seem to be on that same trajectory here. I hope not. We will see soon enough I expect.
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I like a .22lr. My uses for airguns I don't like using slugs. 30fpe pellet shooter gets me about 90% of my shooting. A slug shooter would be nice but I don't have the time for it. All the testing and tuning and tons of different slugs to try. Spent $500 on a Tikka T1X and with SK standard+ ammo which I bought at 10¢ a shot consistent sub MOA at 100yds the first day I got it. Noise wise doesn't bother me nor does it affect the squirrels around us. But hey different strokes for different folks! Would love a good slug shooter in an airgun but I got into airguns for lower powered pellet shooting. So sticking with that. I enjoy both.
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Yep buddy that is generally the thing Eu is heading towards to same goes with lead bans. They already made it impossible to use lead in shotguns in this whole country due with Eu terms this whole country is classified as wetlands and no lead allowed.
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Yeah Tikka t1x is good rifle made in here by sako. Noise wise 22lr with subsonics and silencer is pretty much as quiet or even more so than my 224cal airgun. Silencer are prettymuch the only thing that arent badly legistlated in here and you can buy one as long as you have papers for such gun. Alltho if we look deeper into 224cal airguns you would have to shoot such caliber with subsonics to have similiar platform and lets face it quality subsonic CF ammo aint really that cheap. But if we speak about practicality you cant compete againts22lr with 22air and on normal times cost of ammo (slugs) aint even so different.
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The OPs question is “.22 over 80ft and .25 over 95 ft lb. How?”. My question would be Why?
I don’t have a .22 Impact, but I do have a .22 RW HP and it shoots the 25.4 grain JSB knockouts at 990 FPS (55 FPE) as accurate as any Airgun I’ve seen or heard of... and the shot cycle is very smooth and it’s easy to shoot accurately.
I also have a .25 Impact that I’ve tuned for about 76 FPE shooting 43.5 NSA at 885 FPS, or the lighter ones faster like the 38.5 at 940 FPS. It’s smooth and easy to shoot, and gets about 40 shots from a 250 bar fill. I’ve jacked it up to 87 FPE with the 43.5 NSA and it’s still accurate. But much harder to shoot and the efficiency nosedives. Before anyone starts flapping their lips about “flatter trajectory” I’d ask you to plug into your Strelok and tell me the percentage differential drop between the two speeds. Yup, not a whole lot in the big scheme of things. But the gun is so much easier to shoot accurately at 76 FPE plus I get more than one magazine per fill..
I think my point is MOST of the time this “quest” for additional power is just something that’s fun to do with little to no real world benefit. And as was posted above, a high quality .22 RF like a Vudoo with quality ammo will teach the .22 Airgun slugger a valuable lesson in humility...
I don’t have a .22 Impact, but I do have a .22 RW HP and it shoots the 25.4 grain JSB knockouts at 990 FPS (55 FPE) as accurate as any Airgun I’ve seen or heard of... and the shot cycle is very smooth and it’s easy to shoot accurately.
I also have a .25 Impact that I’ve tuned for about 76 FPE shooting 43.5 NSA at 885 FPS, or the lighter ones faster like the 38.5 at 940 FPS. It’s smooth and easy to shoot, and gets about 40 shots from a 250 bar fill. I’ve jacked it up to 87 FPE with the 43.5 NSA and it’s still accurate. But much harder to shoot and the efficiency nosedives. Before anyone starts flapping their lips about “flatter trajectory” I’d ask you to plug into your Strelok and tell me the percentage differential drop between the two speeds. Yup, not a whole lot in the big scheme of things. But the gun is so much easier to shoot accurately at 76 FPE plus I get more than one magazine per fill..
I think my point is MOST of the time this “quest” for additional power is just something that’s fun to do with little to no real world benefit. And as was posted above, a high quality .22 RF like a Vudoo with quality ammo will teach the .22 Airgun slugger a valuable lesson in humility...
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"I think my point is MOST of the time this “quest” for additional power is just something that’s fun to do with little to no real world benefit. And as was posted above, a high quality .22 RF like a Vudoo with quality ammo will teach the .22 Airgun slugger a valuable lesson in humility…"
Those airgunners in the African continent needed that power because they have to deal with longer range and given conditions of the hunt and 22 cal are all they are allowed.
How do you hit something 150 -200 yards away with that pellet gun of yours without busting out the 22RF or centerfires? How many shots will it take to hit something with 50fpe pellets at that range? "Real world benefits" applies differently to each person, not in your case cause you would use something else.
This sure has turned into a 22 RF thread. sure they can be accurate. but so will the airguns pushing it's limits.
Those airgunners in the African continent needed that power because they have to deal with longer range and given conditions of the hunt and 22 cal are all they are allowed.
How do you hit something 150 -200 yards away with that pellet gun of yours without busting out the 22RF or centerfires? How many shots will it take to hit something with 50fpe pellets at that range? "Real world benefits" applies differently to each person, not in your case cause you would use something else.
This sure has turned into a 22 RF thread. sure they can be accurate. but so will the airguns pushing it's limits.
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No one "needs" to hit something with an airgun 150-200yds away when it comes to pesting. I call BS there. It's something cool to try if that's what you want to do but absolutely not a necessity. That's all publicity for YouTube with those extremely long shots on pests.
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I think most people here are right. Jack the gun up to the limits, drill out bigger transfer ports, add power goodies, bigger plenums, and bury the regulators as high as they'll go. As one example though, I have a Gen 1 Impact. Shooting the 34 grain JSB's at 840 fps required 145 bar on the regulator. I didn't like that so, added a power plenum. Now, same JSB 34 grain shooting at 850 on power level 3 is about 110 bar. If I was willing to go back to 145 bar, I could easily shoot slugs at higher speeds.
Technology is progressing, These folks are pioneering the changes I'll use when the designs are more solid and less of a one off. After all, stuff like the Power Plenum were designed after Earnest Rowe did the add-on plenum and other ideas came from others in the field.
I believe someday, we'll reach .22 LR performance with more average airguns. Not much past that as physics of compressed air becomes the limiting factor. In the meantime, I'm enjoying guns that make a terrible shot like me look like I have skills!
Technology is progressing, These folks are pioneering the changes I'll use when the designs are more solid and less of a one off. After all, stuff like the Power Plenum were designed after Earnest Rowe did the add-on plenum and other ideas came from others in the field.
I believe someday, we'll reach .22 LR performance with more average airguns. Not much past that as physics of compressed air becomes the limiting factor. In the meantime, I'm enjoying guns that make a terrible shot like me look like I have skills!
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Let’s not forget that power tuning and add on plenums were used with Crickets and others (Taipan, EDGun) long before people started installing them in the reg gauge port on Impacts. A lot of Newbys might get the idea that power plenums on Impacts are new or groundbreaking, and that’s just not so...
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Lol dont even try... Same ppl think Matt invented slugs etc... Hype is real lol.
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