1377 vs HUBEN

Pale_Rider

Member
Feb 16, 2019
1,972
1,245
US
 

I own several PCPs, one of them being a .25 huben. I LOVE MY HUBEN!!! What’s not to love about a semi auto, 100+FPE bull pup with a Lothar Walther barrel. But I get more enjoyment shooting my 1377. Maybe it’s because it’s more of a challenge maybe because I personally modified it

Does anyone else enjoy shooting their pumpers or springers more than their high end PCPs?
 
If I could go buy a .22 Cannon action and restock it to fit my frame, I would not own any of the others. At 930 fps with the 7.x pellets at 10 pumps, The .177 was tack driver accurate and so light it was a joy to carry.

I was hoping the new pumper with the storage and regulated valve was what we have all been waiting for, but then you find out what it weighs. I am old enough now that i want a 6 pound gun with a light scope for wandering the woods.

Sadly, there are zero decent guns that meet that description. I am old enough i require glass, so an old style round top receiver is not what I want. If I did, i would go rebuild one of the 1400's or the Benjamin in the closet now.

Drill a fresh tube to take the 2100 arm and pump travel to fill your valve at 10 strokes instead of twenty with your flat top valve/piston. Put an 18 or 20 inch barrel on it and then properly pin the shoulder stock. Add a manometer so the same pressure can be used for each shot.The result should be a 5 pound 10 pump rifle with real hunting power before glass. Build it to take glass.

Give me the power of the Trail in a 5 pound pumper that isn't going to fall apart, and I don't need anything else.
 
I find I really love do my springers and pumpers but the time I love them most is usually after I run out of air or pellets for my Impact. ;^)

I can’t blame you I’ve read the impact is one of the best rifles on the market. Try the hatsan tact air compressor, for a little over $400 it’s a reliable way to have endless air


 
If I could go buy a .22 Cannon action and restock it to fit my frame, I would not own any of the others. At 930 fps with the 7.x pellets at 10 pumps, The .177 was tack driver accurate and so light it was a joy to carry.

I was hoping the new pumper with the storage and regulated valve was what we have all been waiting for, but then you find out what it weighs. I am old enough now that i want a 6 pound gun with a light scope for wandering the woods.

Sadly, there are zero decent guns that meet that description. I am old enough i require glass, so an old style round top receiver is not what I want. If I did, i would go rebuild one of the 1400's or the Benjamin in the closet now.

Drill a fresh tube to take the 2100 arm and pump travel to fill your valve at 10 strokes instead of twenty with your flat top valve/piston. Put an 18 or 20 inch barrel on it and then properly pin the shoulder stock. Add a manometer so the same pressure can be used for each shot.The result should be a 5 pound 10 pump rifle with real hunting power before glass. Build it to take glass.

Give me the power of the Trail in a 5 pound pumper that isn't going to fall apart, and I don't need anything else.

That sounds like an interesting project. Before doing all that work I would rather go with the 24 in barrel maybe longer to bring it up into the 800s shooting with 9.3 grain pellets( 900s with crosman 7.4 grain). I don’t see how a manometer is going to regulate pressure being that all it does is monitor pressure. Unless you are monitoring the pressure and waiting for the exact same pressure to appear for “X” amount of pumps, though that can lead to a lot of pumping and wasted shots that weren’t the exact pressure. Would be sweet to see that 2100 pump tube assembly on a 13XX🤩
 
I have a Sears 1400 with a full length 2260 barrel that will hit the same hole over and over again if you do your part. Sadly, the gun is a beater and needs a complete rebuild.

If you ever saw the barrel on a Cannon, this would make sense, but I don't know about my description. The barrel is brass, but that isn't what is interesting. The rifling is about an eighth tall and has many lands. The pellet never touches anything but the narrow lands for the entire length.

The valve they used is pretty nice, but I think that barrel is what allows them to produce the speeds they do.

Your 24 inch barrel idea is what brought that to mind.

Using the 2100 tube and flipping the pump handle to the side allows a longer arm and most importantly, gets the scope and or the top of the barrel off the list as places to put your hand to pump. The Cannon barrel is floated inside a plastic sleeve. If you put your hand on the barrel and pump, you mess up the barrel. If you grab the scope, it is mounted on a plastic receiver. Holding at the wrist means one side of the machine is two feet long and the other a foot. Eight pumps is hard to do that way.

The models that use the trigger guard to extend the pump arm do the same thing, but sadly the pump arms are always weak and flexible. If you put a flat top set up in one, the arm would fail. That path would require a much more rigid pump arm assembly.

The Cannon /Sharp Innova type system is simple, easy to maintain, inexpensive to build, and it provides superior pellet speeds for the same number of pumps when compared to the other choices in multi-pumps. The valve is as simple as it gets, works very well and it is even self cocking. The trigger on the Cannon models could be adjust to one pound safely. All it did was push up on a flat bar that had a hole in it. When the hole lined up, the stem blows out and the valve fires. The adjustment was in where the bar came to rest. It changed nothing on the trigger. It just allowed you to set it to a hair trigger engagement that was still safe.

They say the originals had triggers that got harder the more pumps you put in them, but the Cannon did not have this problem.

We know the needed and proper barrel lengths. We know the proper size valve and porting. We know multiple ways to handle every part of such a product. We know that properly executed, that the product makes almost the perfect survivor type rifle. Not perfect, since the perfect hunting rifle provides a quick followup shot.

What is on the market is a copy of a copy of a 1400 that doesn't even have the barrel supported for most of the length. We have a hybrid that is too heavy and another that costs more than i paid for my motorcycle. Another solid platform can't be bothered to make allowances for proper scope mounting.

Why is that?
 
The valve and the sear are worth copying.

The valve is just a stem sealed with an o-ring that is held in place by the internal spring that operates the intake seal. The sear is a plate that slides vertically. The valve itself could be used in a vertical position with the sear plate sliding above the barrel to build a single shot pistol.

Traditional looking stem that seals the chamber has a bump outside the valve and a 20 mm or so washer in the next chamber. That is spring loaded and has a rubber travel limiter bushing, then an end plate. The stem sticks out the end a short distance and it locked there by the sliding plate. The trigger lifts the sliding plate till the hole aligns with the stem, which blows out against the spring until the air is exhausted, and then the spring pushes it back in place, allowing the spring loaded sear to fall back in the way.

Only complaints would be that the safety engages the trigger, not the sear itself in the Cannon package, and people would scope them, then pump with their hand against the barrel, which was brass and floated in a thin plastic sleeve.

Less than five pounds without a scope, and it would do an honest 900 fps with normal pellets like the JSB Exacts. Adjustable trigger, push a button and the breach slid open, 850 to 950 at 8 pumps, tack driver accurate if you did not use the barrel to pump against or the scope, and it had real pins with clips, not roll pins. You just had to hold them by the wrist when you pumped them because of the floated barrel

I could show you a man that has been using one for over twenty years without changing o-rings.

Pyramyd Air has the schematic if you can find it. I looked at it a short time back, but could not find it just now. I have one torn apart sitting beside me. When I go out, i will take it by the paintball shop and completely reseal it.

My interest in the sear comes from the fact that it begs a set trigger setup. Using say, the old CVA Mountain Rifle type of set trigger, the sear can be set to an amazing amount of engagement for safety purposes, yet be used directly as a field trigger, or set and used at say 8 ounces. Nothing else needed with this valve.

Same size as a normal valve, drop into the barrel and lock it in place. Drop washer on stem, spring on washer, and rubber bushing over spring directly into the tube. Screw end plate on .

Drill a block vertically almost through the receiver and then at the last little bit go to a smaller hole. Drop a keyed rod in the hole and then a spring on top. Thread a plug into the receiver to hold the spring under tension. The plug also makes the spring tension adjustable.

Cut a notch in the rod for a safety to engage. You have just built the sear with a positive safety. Drill rod with one flat side, drilled through and then hardened would do the job just fine.

Now slide the tube into the receiver to where that sear holds the stem in the valve. You could even push the button and fire it by simply pushing up on the sear with your finger at that point. From there, the actual trigger lever you use to push up on it could look like many systems.

The Cannon receiver was a single block, but it is even easier to do a Crosman type breach on the tube. You would just have to end the tube against the sear, so the receiver would have to extend below the back of the tube at the end. Not a problem, since it is only about an inch from exhaust port to the end of the tube, so you need more space for your feed system and scope mount.



Since the bolt does nothing except push the next pellet into the breech, the spring loaded it like the old BSA breeches on the Techstars.



Make one out of good materials, put a real stock on , and make mine .22

If you install the sear unit behind the valve inside the tube itself, you only add a half inch or so to the length, and that means you could swap breeches like the Crosman stuff. Swapping valve volume could be done as easily as lengthening and shortening the valve/pump depending on the direction needed. The sear spring is easily adjusted or changed, and the engagement is just as easily adjusted. Need more flow? Use a bigger stem. Any spring loaded set trigger works, and can be mounted in the stock as with a longrifle.

It doesn't get any more simple, easier to make or light, and it makes real hunting power.

Make my tube a long throw so I only have to pump it three or four times, then put a solid breech and a 24 inch .22 barrel on top. No magazine or feed system needed. Let it bark, no pickle needed. Put that in a nice maple stock with a single set trigger. Alternately, make mine a long throw but shrink the pump bore, allowing me to achieve higher pressures at 8 pumps.

Can you tell that I am a fan?

Turn the valve around, plumb from a blind end pump, and a modern target style trigger can be used.