1/2 inch at 50yards standard??

Forums General Discussion 1/2 inch at 50yards standard??

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    plinker
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    I know what my Wildcat .22 and previously verminator .25 and marauder .22 can do, but  is it possible that it depends upon who’s hands it is in? I had a friend shoot my Wildcat and his groups were all over the place to the point that I felt like I had to make excuses for him. Then, on another occasion, my younger brother out shot me especially at further distances. I had to excuse myself, ‘my eyes are older than yours’. He loved out shooting me. 
         I’ve had no issues getting 1/2″ at 50y, but do you think some people just can’t do that even though the gun can? I also found at a younger age that I couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn with my Ruger Red Label 12g(sold!), but couldn’t miss a dove with my Benelli M1 90.
    I know for sure my S&W 41 is capable of far more than I can achieve. Do you think some folks just can’t adjust to a bullpup??

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    Marksman3006
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    I wish I could say everone was created equal but truth be told we just arent. I have really good vision and steady hands. I suck at reading and comprehension. Thats why I had to study so insanely hard to get where I am. I know none of us are perfect but I truly believe everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Sure…..someone can be taught to shoot well…..but there will always be a basic level of ability, that is genetic, from which is built upon. Thats how I see it. I would think anyone with good vision and steady hands has a good foundation. From there its all about technique. One of my favorite sayings is practice doesnt make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Learning something the wrong way is a real pain in the ass to break/unlearn.

    Case in point…..give a ten year old a 30-30 lever action as his first deer rifle and he will spend the rest of his life flinching and jerking the trigger on anything they shoot. It is a mental block/habit developed at an early age that is nearly impossible to undo. They will even jerk the trigger on a .22lr after that.

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    plinker
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    Very good points Marksman3006. Especially the part about learning from felt recoil, and there is no doubt vision varies also. That brings up a whole other topic on how the senses vary between individuals. What people experience with taste varies widely also. I went to a course years ago on using magnification and the first thing the speaker did was have us pull out old $20’s and see if anyone in the 300 there could read the writing in the ring around the picture. Most couldn’t even tell there was writing. It looks like a line. I was one of three that could read it, but not anymore. Age has affects also. 

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    Erik
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    Of corse. It takes skill and practice to shoot well. That’s why not everyone comes first Place in competitions

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    T3PRanch
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    Face it plink, If you can’t shoot hole in hole at 200 yards with that Wildcat just call yourself a bad shot and move on!! :P

    Thurmond

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    spinj
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    Every time I come across a post that has a subject matter similar to that in this post, I tend to get very vocal about it, and the reason being is that I highly believe that skill doesn’t necessarily have to be readily available in order to shoot with precision.  What about talent?  Is it required?  It sure helps, but it is not absolutely mandatory.  I had posted several articles on this forum (and several others) before and participated in many posts that discuss about shooting accuracy; the wisdom that I had hoped to impart in those pieces is that exceptional shooting skills can be cultivated through continuous practice and extreme focus … with a nice helping of prayer.  In those articles and posts I intended to share that understanding because with it, it is how I developed and refined my skills and become confident in my shots.
     
    I think that people should put aside the notion that a rifle needs to be capable enough in that it can print out at least a half-inch group at a given distance in order to be acceptable and classified as an accurate rifle.   Yes, it is good to have standards (and a world-class rifle to begin with), but it is that kind of reasoning that is completely unfounded.  Why?   It is because for the yet-untrained shooter, it totally negates the potential of becoming a marksman and predisposes him to be mediocre in skill, or less.

    In short, skill trumps over anything else involved in mastering the way of the sharpshooter (notice how I did not say rifle).  Secondly, know your tool and what it requires and you should be fine.

     

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    plinker
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    T3p, I hear you brother! Haha. I would call that shot a lob or Hail Mary ! 

    TonyR and spinj, good points and I agree. It’s funny no one picks up a guitar and expects to be a virtuoso, but we buy the expensive gun and just expect it to happen. Like marksman3006 said, “perfect practice makes perfect”. 

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    chasdicapua
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    Plinker, I think you’re right on.  I’ve had to learn the hard way that’s exactly what I expected. That is, buy an expensive gun and expect to shoot lights out. And if that’s not happening, there’s something wrong with the gun!  It takes thousands and thousands of shots to get the feel of a particular gun/trigger. There’s no getting around it. If that’s the attitude, those thousands of shots can be fun. Without the correct attitude… misery.

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    plinker
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    “chasdicapua”Plinker, I think you’re right on.  I’ve had to learn the hard way that’s exactly what I expected. That is, buy an expensive gun and expect to shoot lights out. And if that’s not happening, there’s something wrong with the gun!  It takes thousands and thousands of shots to get the feel of a particular gun/trigger. There’s no getting around it. If that’s the attitude, those thousands of shots can be fun. Without the correct attitude… misery.

    
Awesome that you have the guts to admit it and then put in the hard work! There are gifted people with given attributes that increase their chance of success, but it does require practice. Michael Phelps and Usain Bolt didn’t just show up! 

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    Goodtogo
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    I think the net has made a lot of better shooters than I ever see at the range. 1/2 inch at 50 all the shots would be under a dime. 1 inch at 100 all shots would be under a quarter or the shot centers would. I like reading about those shots and even make some crazy shots myself at times. I shoot a bolt .223 and a bolt .17 at 100 yards that will do some fancy shooting. But I have also shot with some guys that the rifle is set up with no contact with it except the trigger.

    I think the gear you are laying that rifle on while shooting long distance might be as important as the shooter. Some can shoot off of a car hood and hit under 2 inches at 200 yards with some pellet rifles in the wind. I read that on the net so its so. ;)

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    ajshoots
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    I have always been a “gifted” shooter. I started with firearms at age 7 and by my early teens, I was making 500-600 yard shots with a varmint rifle.

    I was 20 when 9-11 happened. By the following summer, I was headed to FT Benning to serve my country as I was heartbroken by that tragic day and felt serving my country was what I should do. As a cocky young man, I thought I was the best shot in the whole damn army. By the time I reached the training to prove just how good I was, I was at the top. That didn’t last very long!! Those guys with little to no previous long range or even basic shooting skills were soon just as good as me in no time by simply listening and soaking up that training. I was injured and unable to finish what I had started in the military, but I did learn a very valuable lesson.

    Some of us have natural ability, but almost anyone with an open mind and some gumption can be trained to be just as good and maybe even better.

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    plinker
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    “Goodtogo”I think the net has made a lot of better shooters than I ever see at the range…Some can shoot off of a car hood and hit under 2 inches at 200 yards with some pellet rifles in the wind. I read that on the net so its so. ;)

    
Haha! I must admit, a few of the fish I’ve caught have gained some ounces with time. 🐟🙄

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    Smaug
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    Interesting question! I think some people adjust quicker than others, and some people don’t really WANT to adjust.

    As for your brother out-shooting you (I presume he’s less serious about shooting than you are) there is something to be said for natural talent and instinct. Or maybe he’s got a technique that you don’t? (for example, have you ever heard how Marines are taught to “make the 8” while shooting?)

    Or maybe he has a slower resting heart rate, so that he’s less likely to have to consider that?

    Now you’ve got me curious. I don’t recall how my Marauder shoots at 50 yds. I always feel like I’m cheating when I brace a gun too well, with the result that I rarely know exactly how well any of my guns can shoot. Dumb, I know.

    I posted that earlier thread about drawbacks to bullpups, but I still haven’t shot one, to this day.

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    plinker
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    Smaug, my brother has actually hunted his entire life. Well 6 on. He also happens to be a Marine with a shooting classification or medal that I can’t remember. He does have uncanny skills and can tell distances within feet without a range finder (also amazing in golf). His off hand shooting is quick and scary, but I believe there is some rule that says, “you never out shoot your older brother, especially with his gun”.  Haha! 😜

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    plinker
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    Well stated aj. Training/practice can make a difference, and there are different ‘levels’ of skill. You’ve likely heard it stated that some people have an ear for music, a green thumb etc. natural gifts are great, but honed they can be incredible. 

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    Ginuwine1969
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    Great post and food for thought, just because one’s two thousand dollar gun doesn’t group well as soon as you pull it out of the box at 100 yards doesn’t mean that the gun is shit and needs to be tuned or returned because it is defective.  Maybe it just needs a little bit of time and a lot of usage.  But don’t rule it out 🙂 .

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    Monroe-air
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    My son with his 18 years old eyes can slightly out shoot me in ideal conditions, but get in a hunting situation my experience always put the game down.

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    Kitplanenut
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    Plinker, ALL fish caught gain 20% per year. That’s part of the fisherman’s rules. Any fisherman not following these rules is subject to question :)  As for shooting I was a lot better shot when younger. I blame eyesight and old age shaking. Even now there are days when I amaze myself, but they are few. I’ve noticed sometimes I can shoot 1/2 inch at 50 yards and the next day it might be 1 1/2 inches at best. I’d like to blame the gun, but it just isn’t so. Also, some people just don’t get along with certain guns. A friend can shoot my Wildcat much better then me, but is just embarrassing with the Boss. Can’t explain it, but it’s not the gun. 

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    plinker
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    True Ginuwine1969 sometimes it’s operator error. 

    Monroe-air, hunting experience is priceless. Situational shooting is a whole other story. My kids hunted with me since 6 yrs old. They pick up on a lot of the skills by watching. Knowing when to move is crucial. 

    Kitplanenut, you are all over it right, from fish tales to the gun being a good ‘fit’ for you. Like I said, I couldn’t shoot a Ruger Red Label, but i love that Benelli.  

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    peole
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    1/2in at 50 yards is 1MOA There are plenty of sub moa rifles that will do much better. On other side original M16 is 4.5MOA AK47 is 5-6MOA.

    Nobody will be impressed with sub MOA rifle to do 1/2in groups at 50 yards.
    On other side – best sniper in the world will not do make original m16 group better than it can do.

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