100+ Shots from my AA S510 Xtra – I'm on to something here…

Forums PCP Airguns 100+ Shots from my AA S510 Xtra – I'm on to something here…

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    Matt_Dubber
    Participant
    Member

    A few months ago I uploaded initial chrony results with the Lane regulator in my S510 – You can see these results in the graph above:

    -The RED line shows the original shot string straight out of the box (no reg)
    -The BLUE line shows results with the reg set to 135 Bar, no tweaking.
    -The ORANGE, GREEN & YELLOW lines show an attempt to increase shot count by tweaking transfer port, valve return spring, etc.

    Even though the results were WAY better than the original unregulated mountain of a curve, I couldn’t seem to get more than 50-55 shots without sacrificing a lot of power. The curves weren’t completely flat either, which was a little disappointing.

    And then I made the decision to shorten the hammer spring a little bit. I realised that the Air Arms rifles were losing a LOT of air through hammer bounce. The design seems a little silly, with constant spring tension on the valve even when the gun wasn’t cocked. In theory, shortening the hammer spring by a few millimetres should “free float” the system a little and stop hammer bounce.

    I cut the spring to 55mm, thinking “what the hell am I doing”…And what to you know!

    The PURPLE line shows results with the hammer spring shortened. The string starts at 250 Bar, and ends at 100. The peak in the curve is because the gun goes off the reg at 135 Bar – But the peak is only 10fps higher than the rest of the curve, so I’m happy to shoot down to 100 without worrying about dramatic rises/drops in velocity.

    I know people who are achieving even better results by lightening the hammer as well. This, in theory, should reduce inertia and enable the valve to close faster. I’ll get to that at another stage.

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    Swing360
    Participant
    Member

    Wow… Nice increase!

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    gameh
    Participant
    Member

    great info, thanks Matt

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    Matt_Dubber
    Participant
    Member

    “Cricket”What ammo?

    
Oops, forgot to mention that! I was using 18.1gr JSBs (.22)

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    gameh
    Participant
    Member

    And your regulator install video is great as well Matt
     

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    Michael
    Keymaster
    Keymaster

    Thats pretty neat. I’d say you got about 90 shots on the reg. With an average of about 845?

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    ajshoots
    Participant
    Member

    Nice work!!

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    blackdiesel
    Participant
    Member

    How did you determine you could fill to 250 bar after the reg install?

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    ajshoots
    Participant
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    blackdieselHow did you determine you could fill to 250 bar after the reg install?

    I missed the 250 bar fill until you asked blackdiesel. I am curious as well? What had to be upgraded for that high of a fill?

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    Cliff_Allen
    Participant
    Member

    I’m not sure anything had to be upgraded after the regulator install but I’m curious to hear his response also. If I recall correctly Matt said in his regulator installation video that the tube would hold that much pressure no problem. He’s probably sleeping in SA so I don’t expect he’ll post back until we’re all sleeping here.

    All the best, 
    Cliff

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    Matt_Dubber
    Participant
    Member

    “Michael”Thats pretty neat. I’d say you got about 90 shots on the reg. With an average of about 845?

    
Yes that’s correct. I would have liked it to shoot a little hotter than that, but I’m happy to lose a little power if it’s doubling my shot count.

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    Matt_Dubber
    Participant
    Member

    “blackdiesel”How did you determine you could fill to 250 bar after the reg install?

    
Good question. The Air Arms cylinders are made to hold 300 Bar. The only reason they have “max pressure 200 bar” printed on the side is because without the reg, the valve/hammer system can’t handle the extra pressure. It would be pointless shooting above 200 Bar without the reg because the valve would just lock. But with the reg you can fill much higher.

    I was at the Air Arms factory a few weeks back and spent a whole afternoon trying to convince them to regulate their high power guns as standard. They seemed pretty interested when they saw my results, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed that there will be changes when they announce their “new product” at the SHOT Show in 2 months! :)

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    ajshoots
    Participant
    Member

    Thanks for that info!!

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    Saab93
    Participant
    Member

    Matt,
    if you try to set reg on 125bar you gonna increase your velocity. I have mine on 120bar and getting 278m/s with JSB 18.1 grain. Try it :)

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    30cal
    Participant
    Member

    Ya it should at least be an option to have a regulator.

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    jking
    Participant
    Member

    “Cricket”

    “Matt_Dubber”

    “blackdiesel”How did you determine you could fill to 250 bar after the reg install?

    
Good question. The Air Arms cylinders are made to hold 300 Bar. The only reason they have “max pressure 200 bar” printed on the side is because without the reg, the valve/hammer system can’t handle the extra pressure. It would be pointless shooting above 200 Bar without the reg because the valve would just lock. But with the reg you can fill much higher. I was at the Air Arms factory a few weeks back and spent a whole afternoon trying to convince them to regulate their high power guns as standard. They seemed pretty interested when they saw my results, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed that there will be changes when they announce their “new product” at the SHOT Show in 2 months! :)

    
Great Matt!  I don’t think producing high end air rifles without regulators is even an option today. The fact that Air arms s510 and s410 are even sold without one is beyond me….

    
That would be the icying on the cake for AA’s. Just make it an option and I think they would be surprised at the added sales. I think there carbine version would be a hot seller. Can you imagine a 12fpe 177’s shot string.
    jk

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    Matt_Dubber
    Participant
    Member

    “Cricket”

    “Matt_Dubber”

    “blackdiesel”How did you determine you could fill to 250 bar after the reg install?

    
Good question. The Air Arms cylinders are made to hold 300 Bar. The only reason they have “max pressure 200 bar” printed on the side is because without the reg, the valve/hammer system can’t handle the extra pressure. It would be pointless shooting above 200 Bar without the reg because the valve would just lock. But with the reg you can fill much higher.

    I was at the Air Arms factory a few weeks back and spent a whole afternoon trying to convince them to regulate their high power guns as standard. They seemed pretty interested when they saw my results, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed that there will be changes when they announce their “new product” at the SHOT Show in 2 months! :)

    
Great Matt! 

    I don’t think producing high end air rifles without regulators is even an option today. The fact that Air arms s510 and s410 are even sold without one is beyond me….

    
I agree with you…But at the same time, there are guns like the Daystate Wolverine that shoots insanely consistent despite being unregulated. I own the Wolverine and I’m very happy with the 80-90 shots it gives me. That being said though, with a reg fitted the Wolverine would probably give 120-150 shots quote easily!

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    Dhc8guru
    Participant
    Member

    I would love to get more shots and have a consistent shot string but I am not sure I want to go through the cost and trouble.
    Once I read I would have to drill into the air tube, I punched out. Also losing the air gage was a deal breaker.

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    HatsanHunter
    Participant
    Member

    Nice work!! You can use this webpage to get an air efficiency calculator – http://www.calc.sikes.us/1/index.php – most .22 pcps should be considered efficient if they shot above 1.2 FPE/cuin I consider 1.3 good and 1.4 excellent, the results I got with your data gave an outstanding 1.52 fpe/cuin!!! 

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    John_in_Ma
    Participant
    Member

    jking

    “Cricket”

    “Matt_Dubber”

    “blackdiesel”How did you determine you could fill to 250 bar after the reg install?

    
Good question. The Air Arms cylinders are made to hold 300 Bar. The only reason they have “max pressure 200 bar” printed on the side is because without the reg, the valve/hammer system can’t handle the extra pressure. It would be pointless shooting above 200 Bar without the reg because the valve would just lock. But with the reg you can fill much higher. I was at the Air Arms factory a few weeks back and spent a whole afternoon trying to convince them to regulate their high power guns as standard. They seemed pretty interested when they saw my results, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed that there will be changes when they announce their “new product” at the SHOT Show in 2 months! :)

    
Great Matt!  I don’t think producing high end air rifles without regulators is even an option today. The fact that Air arms s510 and s410 are even sold without one is beyond me….

    
That would be the icying on the cake for AA’s. Just make it an option and I think they would be surprised at the added sales. I think there carbine version would be a hot seller. Can you imagine a 12fpe 177’s shot string.
    jk


    I’ll be regulating my s500 extra fac model for wftf over the winter and will post the results when its done.

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