To quote someone I am sure is/was famous, but I can't remember their name right now...
"How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice! Practice! Practice!" (grin)
"How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice! Practice! Practice!" (grin)
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You’ve all heard of minute of 🦌 deer, How about minute of Can as a new standard?
- Thread starter Flintsack
- Start date
@flintsack, you have inspired me to look at setting up a 150 yard station. I have the distance at the back of the property, but am lazy and like shooting off the deck. It will be interesting to see how many first round hits on a minute of 12 oz can I can get. I like that the cans are roughly pigeon size.
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LL
Then you should cut your range right through from where you can sit on the deck (I know, I might not be possible), and put up a target
stand. Then you will shoot more and it will be much easier. I hardly ever shoot at 240 even though it’s a blast. I have to move everything. We’re all busy, that’s a huge barrier.
I am so excited that you’re actually going to do this.
mike
Then you should cut your range right through from where you can sit on the deck (I know, I might not be possible), and put up a target
stand. Then you will shoot more and it will be much easier. I hardly ever shoot at 240 even though it’s a blast. I have to move everything. We’re all busy, that’s a huge barrier.I am so excited that you’re actually going to do this.
mike
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There is something really intriguing about shooting st these ultra long distances. Part of it is the quiet, and hearing the slug 
hit. Part of it is the pause, until the hits. Some of it is the total lack of recoil with the 17, and then watching those little tiny slugs snuggle together, at 235…but that’s impossible…NOT! do I here 275 with a 17? someone show me please. Soren, it’s only 255 for you.
A guy named Harry who is truly a wizard who lives in the land of Oz, once shot groups st distances like these with a BSA single shot. The BSA has a grade 5 factory walnut stock , I’m sure he still has it. I believe that was the first rifle shooter combination in the world to shoot an 1/2 MOA group at 100 yards. Because that was impossible. And that was only 12 years ago. He inspired me to try to shoot a half inch group, it took over two years, then I shot two in one day. To charge his rifle, you have to remove it from the bench. Then load it and re-settle it on the bench rest. As I said, Harry was a wizard. And a world ranked Benchrest guy. Like Mike, he beat guys with his air rifle his BSA against 22 Long rifle at 50 yards. He’s still around, but he doesn’t join these conversations anymore. Which is a shame.
mike
We have no idea what we can do with these rifles with the new projectiles.
hit. Part of it is the pause, until the hits. Some of it is the total lack of recoil with the 17, and then watching those little tiny slugs snuggle together, at 235…but that’s impossible…NOT! do I here 275 with a 17? someone show me please. Soren, it’s only 255 for you. A guy named Harry who is truly a wizard who lives in the land of Oz, once shot groups st distances like these with a BSA single shot. The BSA has a grade 5 factory walnut stock , I’m sure he still has it. I believe that was the first rifle shooter combination in the world to shoot an 1/2 MOA group at 100 yards. Because that was impossible. And that was only 12 years ago. He inspired me to try to shoot a half inch group, it took over two years, then I shot two in one day. To charge his rifle, you have to remove it from the bench. Then load it and re-settle it on the bench rest. As I said, Harry was a wizard. And a world ranked Benchrest guy. Like Mike, he beat guys with his air rifle his BSA against 22 Long rifle at 50 yards. He’s still around, but he doesn’t join these conversations anymore. Which is a shame.
mike
We have no idea what we can do with these rifles with the new projectiles.
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CC - 4 1/4s Challenge…
I think if you took the top 10 shooters from this years EBR. Gave them all a tuned RedWolf in 22 or 25, a rifle that shoots well withs.
Then you gave them a week to practice with the ammo that works best in that rifle.
If you then had them shoot that exercise without knowing what the distance was, and this caveat. It’s their home course. So they can guess distances to some degree. They may also be able to read the window bit better than some unknown course.
I would guess that most of them would miss all of the shots. Because you have such good shooters, some are going to hit one. One may hit two quarters.
In my opinion that’s about how hard your quarters game is. Almost impossible without a little luck. And that’s the top of the heap…
How did people do when they tried it?
mike
No one even tried, just as I suspected. I wrote that at a time when on AGN there were a lot of keyboard gun shooters posting about shooting very small targets at longer distances. Like shotgun shells or bottle caps at longer than 200 yards. So I threw out there that if they could do that then it would be child’s play to hit a quarter at less than 200 yards and greater than 150. Four different directions four different wind holds four different distances four shots. Easy day. Prone with bipod and use a laser rangefinder. And like you said, MAYBE one out of four, but probably zero. I used the quarter because it’s about the size of a KZ on a ground squirrel in Southern California.
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That begs the question is minute of can measured upright can or on end? I like the idea let's just get a general consensus on rules of measure. Because I like Dizzums shoot cans on end.
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I was just thinking of a normal can standing up…About the size of a prairie dog. Based on the groups I’ve shot, It would be extremely hard to hit the just the end of the can at 200+.
mike
mike
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Bandg
For a hunting rifle, it Has to be first shot cold barrel…As I said before, we agree. I have no interest in wounding a deer at 500 yards because I’m not quite sure where my rifles going to hit. If I don’t know where it’s going to hit, I shouldn’t be shooting.
If it’s too windy to shoot at that distance, that day, I shouldn’t be shooting.
If I’m sitting down to shoot prairie dogs at long distance… different ball game. I’m going to be missing some shots, and learning from those shots.
mike
For a hunting rifle, it Has to be first shot cold barrel…As I said before, we agree. I have no interest in wounding a deer at 500 yards because I’m not quite sure where my rifles going to hit. If I don’t know where it’s going to hit, I shouldn’t be shooting.
If it’s too windy to shoot at that distance, that day, I shouldn’t be shooting.
If I’m sitting down to shoot prairie dogs at long distance… different ball game. I’m going to be missing some shots, and learning from those shots.
mike
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In general, I would agree with the view, that an MOA Rifle, is an MOA Rifle no matter who is shooting it. But how do you prove it’s an MOA Rifle? If it comes from the factory with a target like some do, there you have it. Then the question Becomes…Did the factory shoot those groups indoors? In a tunnel? Did they use a Ransom rest, or are they holding the rifle? Did they use handloads or factory loads? So is the rifle capable of MOA with a specific factory load? Or do you have to hand load for it?
So then the owner takes the rifle to test whether or not it’s an MOA Rifle. Someone has to shoot it to prove that theory, if in fact you want prove its capabilities.
As far as I know, most ranges don’t have some kind of an expert to test rifles to see if they shoot MOA. …
so what happens is, the owner shoots his rifle and decides whether or not it’s capable of shooting MOA. Or he has one of his buddies who is a really good shooter, shoot it for him. But I don’t think that happens very often.
so how do we decide whether a rifle is capable of MOA? We shoot it.
mike
So then the owner takes the rifle to test whether or not it’s an MOA Rifle. Someone has to shoot it to prove that theory, if in fact you want prove its capabilities.
As far as I know, most ranges don’t have some kind of an expert to test rifles to see if they shoot MOA. …
so what happens is, the owner shoots his rifle and decides whether or not it’s capable of shooting MOA. Or he has one of his buddies who is a really good shooter, shoot it for him. But I don’t think that happens very often.
so how do we decide whether a rifle is capable of MOA? We shoot it.
mike
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For the fun of it I'd like to mention something that happened to me about two months ago with my fancy long range centerfire. Keeping it brief I hit a 19"x21" steel plate at 1990 yards 3 times out of 4 shots, even hitting it on the first shot, lol??? It wasn't calm either, I held off a lucky guess of 1 mil. Could I do that again?? very doubtful.
Relating that to airguns I've also shot some pretty small groups at 200Y with slugs that most would have hit inside a pop can. This was in almost perfect conditions at first light. I think??? I might be able to put 5 into a pop can at 150Y in the same environment providing I have a few sighters. Well because unfortunately my Uragan has POI shifts and often I'll be off enough to miss a pop can at that distance.
MOPC/minute of pop can - So if such a contest happens is it cold bore or will sighters be allowed? If sighters are allowed, how many? Should we choose 125Y to begin with and advance 25Y at a time provided we hit all 5 cans before we advance to the farther distance?
Relating that to airguns I've also shot some pretty small groups at 200Y with slugs that most would have hit inside a pop can. This was in almost perfect conditions at first light. I think??? I might be able to put 5 into a pop can at 150Y in the same environment providing I have a few sighters. Well because unfortunately my Uragan has POI shifts and often I'll be off enough to miss a pop can at that distance.
MOPC/minute of pop can - So if such a contest happens is it cold bore or will sighters be allowed? If sighters are allowed, how many? Should we choose 125Y to begin with and advance 25Y at a time provided we hit all 5 cans before we advance to the farther distance?
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CC
at a time when on AGN there were a lot of keyboard gun shooters posting about shooting very small targets at longer distances. Like shotgun shells or bottle caps at longer than 200 yards.
were they faking the distance? Or taking many shots to hit?
mike
at a time when on AGN there were a lot of keyboard gun shooters posting about shooting very small targets at longer distances. Like shotgun shells or bottle caps at longer than 200 yards.
were they faking the distance? Or taking many shots to hit?
mike
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Not a clue. There aren’t as many anymore but used to be lots of Keyboard Gun shooters on AGN. Those were usually 1/4 to 1/2 MOA guns capable of extreme feats of accuracy. And no one that actually shoots for real believed the posts, and we generally got a good chuckle out of them.
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At long distance with an airgun, windage should be a much greater problem than elevation if said gun is accurate enough to shoot that well. A soda can on end wouldn't seem to be noticeably more difficult than a soda can standing upright.
I'd suggest this to test your view-go out at a random time and use your sighters to "get on target". Then fire one shot at the target every 30 minutes and note your percentage of hits. JMO on a way to try to make it somewhat representative without taking all day.
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Soda can on end, looks like less than half the surface area than from the side.
The wind can blow projectiles up-and-down also. Especially, when we’re shooting at 200+ with an air gun. Happens all the time. Three in a row in one spot 2 inches low, then it pops back up an inch above where you’re aiming, and stays there a while.
Plus it’s easier just to set a tin can up… and because it’s bigger, people will have more success. And because they have more success, it will be funner.
It’s also smaller than the Killzone of a deer. Safe to say the most hunted big game animal in the US. You could make the argument just from that aspect it’s worth doing for most people.
This is about fun.
In addition to fun, if we think about it in terms of becoming better hunters It’s a clear win for everyone. And I promise you it is fun.
What is the path to get better at the one shot cold barrel kill…?
I think it’s an irrefutable statement to make…that it starts with trigger time. Then even More trigger time.
If I just finished cleaning my PB hunting rifle. The first shot is a fowler…It’s not even part of a group. It usually has a different point of impact.
So when I prepare to go hunting. I sight my rifle in, or verify that it’s cited in. Then I clean it extremely well. Then I take it outside shoot it once down into the ground. Then I put a piece of electrical tape over the end of the barrel. So nothing bad can get in there. It will be a cold barrel, but it will also be a fouled barrel.
Again, what’s the best way to get better at that cold barrel first shot? What’s the path?
I believe Carlos Hathcock in Whitefeather has the best definition of first shot cold barrel…When he shoots through the tube of the other sniper and removes his brain. How did Carlos get so good?
mike
The wind can blow projectiles up-and-down also. Especially, when we’re shooting at 200+ with an air gun. Happens all the time. Three in a row in one spot 2 inches low, then it pops back up an inch above where you’re aiming, and stays there a while.
Plus it’s easier just to set a tin can up… and because it’s bigger, people will have more success. And because they have more success, it will be funner.
It’s also smaller than the Killzone of a deer. Safe to say the most hunted big game animal in the US. You could make the argument just from that aspect it’s worth doing for most people.
This is about fun.
In addition to fun, if we think about it in terms of becoming better hunters It’s a clear win for everyone. And I promise you it is fun.
What is the path to get better at the one shot cold barrel kill…?
I think it’s an irrefutable statement to make…that it starts with trigger time. Then even More trigger time.
If I just finished cleaning my PB hunting rifle. The first shot is a fowler…It’s not even part of a group. It usually has a different point of impact.
So when I prepare to go hunting. I sight my rifle in, or verify that it’s cited in. Then I clean it extremely well. Then I take it outside shoot it once down into the ground. Then I put a piece of electrical tape over the end of the barrel. So nothing bad can get in there. It will be a cold barrel, but it will also be a fouled barrel.
Again, what’s the best way to get better at that cold barrel first shot? What’s the path?
I believe Carlos Hathcock in Whitefeather has the best definition of first shot cold barrel…When he shoots through the tube of the other sniper and removes his brain. How did Carlos get so good?
mike
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I would now like to support everything Bandg has been saying…
It takes me quite a few shots to hit one tin can in the wind. Look how close the Misses are again and again. Keep in mind I can’t hold the rifle like I normally would, and I’m looking at the screen on my phone while I’m shooting. I would like to think holding the gun in my preferred method would allow better shooting.
However, if you’ve never tried shooting in the wind at 200 yards it’s kind of fun to watch.
mike
https://vimeo.com/562519712
It takes me quite a few shots to hit one tin can in the wind. Look how close the Misses are again and again. Keep in mind I can’t hold the rifle like I normally would, and I’m looking at the screen on my phone while I’m shooting. I would like to think holding the gun in my preferred method would allow better shooting.
However, if you’ve never tried shooting in the wind at 200 yards it’s kind of fun to watch.
mike
https://vimeo.com/562519712
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