Why you need flags to be successful at 50y

[thomasair]

I thought I would show a quick contrast between no flags and flags on a N50 target.

The conditions were light and variable at 1-4 mph. Shot 22 Monster redesigned pellets. 

For the no flags target i shot a lot of sighters and tried to get over to a record bull as quickly as possible. If the shot went well...I moved on to the next bull. If not....I went back and shot another sighter. The wind was light enough that I could not perceive any meaningful difference by feel. Sometimes I would feel a definite wind pick up at my bench...but nothing happened at the target. It’s just blind shooting and it showed with a 242 6x.

For the flags target i shot very few sighters and made most adjustments on the fly by just seeing what the flags were doing. 250 10x. Not a stellar card, but probably enough to do well at most matches. There were not even any close calls. This card probably took me about 7 minutes...whereas the no flag target took me at least twice that much because of all the blind sighters.

This is an ultra small sample, but I’m pretty sure it will bear out similarly with a higher sample number.

You need flags to do consistently well in 50y BR. 1 mph of wind will move you 1/4” with .22 monster redesigned pellets at 50. Nobody can tell a 1 mph difference all the way to the target or sense small angle changes which make big differences at the target in vertical without flags. Nobody.

Mike 

 

[steve123]

Agreed, flags make all the difference, even with amateurs like myself. Plus I like learning how the flags look then seeing shots go wide, and thinking, well, I missed that call somehow so I need to learn when to shoot and when NOT to shoot.

 

[crazyhorse]

I use to sit out in my front yard to one side of my driveway watching wind flags affected by wind coming over top of my car in the driveway and spilling down to the ground and bouncing up to the flag....I did this simulate our 50 yard bench rest range which wind would go in many directions ..

 

[Joef]

Great example Mike and glad you posted. I will mention the same thing to those that shoot without flags here at the range but only a few times. They can see with their own eyes the ones who use flags from their scores.

I do not get it,. maybe they just do not care as much or just like being in the present surroundings.



Joe

 

[tommyb]

Just saw this Mike. I also saw your update in my other post. 

Good example, very telling. 

Tom

 

[stoti]

Agreed! Just went through this last year. Although I only bought some cheap flags(everything was sold out) and put them at 10yd intervals from 0-120yds. They make accurately reading wind so much easier and more precise. If you want to make your practice “count” at any range, these will help a lot. Good post Mike

Stoti

 

[Solo1]

I’ve been trying to study wind affects for field target this summer so I’ve been shooting in the wind or should i say light variable breeze, for a weeks now and am totally amazed sometimes you no sooner hold for wind from right and it comes from left and not a strong wind but 1-2 mph. Also learning that slugs have about half the drift of pellets @ 50

 

[bubblerboy64]

I’m learning. Just ordered some flags. I shoot 200 yards and out with my 223 and I can tell you past 300 yards just a little wind will blow a 55 grain bullet off of a ground hog every time. I’m a very poor judge of wind and I miss plenty Which is fine. I get to shoot more. There is art and science to this stuff.
I got three today. One was a suicide he was at 45 yards. Another was a relatively easy 200 yard shot and last one I was proud of. 320 yards. I just got a vortex 10x42 rangefinding binocular . I ranged him and I knew the gun was sighted in at 200 and I figured the drop was 4 to 6 inches. I held just over his head. No wind and rolled him over. I know three hundred is nothing for some of you but that’s a good shot for me. Shooting air rifles is good practice . I shoot starlings for one of my friends and beyond 75 yards they can be challenging too. If the wind is gusty impossible 

 

[Airgun Advisor]

What distance from the target do we find best to place flags at both 100 yards and 50 yards?

For this example let’s say we are just using two flags.

 

[Cajun1024]

I know a lot of folks here will disagree, but the fist flag at no more than 20 yds. gives the best read. Seems strange, but it's a fact. Once the pellet or bullet leaves the muzzle, it is deflected by the wind no matter what direction it is blowing. Wind speed only increases the deflection. Then there is the mirage to contend with which is another story. To me, mirage is the best indicator there is unless the mirage runs against the wind then believe the mirage over the wind. Which does happen! You also have to contend with quartering winds as well as mirage. Only way to learn how to read conditions is shoot many, many , many rounds in different conditions. The best shooters excel at wind reading. Also make use of your sighters. That is why they are on the target in the first pace. Most important of all, BE PATIENT!!. Wait for your condition. If your lose your patience, you are done for. Either that or go back to your sighter for the prevailing condition.

 

[thomasair]

Hi Chad, there are a couple schools of thought on flag placement.

Most like to place them in even intervals to the target.

I prefer to set my flags to zones of equal influence. If I’m using 3 flags for 50y I place them at 15ft, 50ft, and 110ft. At this spacing, each flag covers a zone which will represent 1/3 of the bullets drift. As stated earlier...a wind at the muzzle will push a bullet off course much more than a wind near the target. The first zone is pretty small, and the last zone is very large. Most times you will not have all the flags agreeing...so determining how much less or more to hold is easier when you have equal numbers. I’ve always shot over only 2 flags up until about a month ago. 2 is a lot less math on the fly than 3. So far, I’m not shooting any better with 3.


Mike 

 

[thomasair]

For 2 flags at 50y....25 ft and 100ft will get you very close to 2 zones of equal influence. For 100y just double it.

 

[Airgun Advisor]

Mike, I appreciate your insight on this. Learn something new all the time. Thanks

 

[UrbanSniper]

You said the wind is about 1-4 mph...in this case where do you measure the wind velocity ?? Near the airgun or near the target???

 

[ChrisUSA]

I made a version of these and they work just plain AWESOME!

https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2018/02/wind-indicator/

 

[JohnnyPDX]

Thomasair said... "1 mph of wind will move you 1/4” with .22 monster redesigned pellets at 50."

That's a huge change I don't want and would likely blame myself or the pellet I was using. That wind is absolutely non-perceivable.

 

[JohnnyPDX]

I made a version of these and they work just plain AWESOME!

https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2018/02/wind-indicator/

Very cool, simple, easy to execute and inexpensive.

 

[thomasair]

Urban sniper....the actual mph of the wind is not super important. After you have shot over your flags for a long time, you will know approximately how far off to hold by the angle of the flag tails. I base my holds on the number of rings I’m left or right.

While using some streamers is better than nothing....it will only give you part of the information needed to do well in 50y BR.

If we only had to hold left or right of the center for wind, the game would be a lot easier. Unfortunately pellets or slugs will also rise or fall depending on the direction of the wind. In a 90 degree left to right wind...the pellet poi will also rise with the lateral displacement at around a 20-30 degree angle. In a right to left wind, the pellet will fall at about the same angle. A slug, because of its center of gravity, will do the opposite. This is the most difficult component of the wind to account for, You must be able to read the angles of the wind flags to know where to hold in the vertical plane. It’s almost impossible to read the angles of a streamer unless it pretty close to you. You will not be able to tell the difference between a 7:30 left to right and a 9:00 or 10:30. They will all look the same on a streamer at distance. The difference in vertical between a 7:30 left to right and a 10:30 can be a full ring and possible more depending on wind strength. The vanes of the flags will allow you see the angles. 

Some flags are easier to see the angles in than others. Some have a 3” ball on the front that is painted half black and half white. You will know if the flag is pointing toward you or away from you by the color you see on the ball. Other flags have dual vanes that are different colors so you can easily recognize angles by the look of the contrast.


Mike 

 

[thomasair]

Here is a good read about the vertical component of wind drift.


https://hardairmagazine.com/ham-columns/vertical-deflection-for-pellets-in-crosswind/

Mike 

 

[nomojo65]

Flags will help you immensely whether 25m or 50yds, but you must practice and practice to understand what they are telling you!

when I’m lazy or it’s 15deg. Or not seriously competing I will only put out 1 flag and some surveyors tape!

I believe it’s a must two have at least 3 flags at 25 or 50, “all the same kind of flags” is very important as well, I always found it a little funny to watch someone run out on the range with his wind velocity meter and no flags at all?

A couple of other notes for me anyway was when I got serious about flags was shoot a condition that allowed you to read it and shoot it if you paid attention! “That’s not when the flags drop!”. Usually the worst time to shoot?, Also line up the flags so you can see them through your scope if you can? all though I don’t do this for 25m (different subject).

Just Things that have helped me, but everyone’s techniques will vary to suit their style.