Why the DRS Pro?

[DoSqH]

First off, I'm new to airguns. Just recently picked up an Impact M4 for some pest control around the garden. I'm no stranger to rimfire competition and PRS.

I can understand why Heckler and Colon (Team MDT) would run the DRS Pro. I seem to be having a hard time understanding why you would choose that rifle with a lower air reserve than, say, the Panthera.

Am I missing something? Also, why not .25 cal? All the top NRL Hunter and even some of the PRS centerfire guys are moving toward heavy for caliber projectiles.

What do I need to learn, or am I thinking along the right lines to start understanding playing the "PRS/NRL" style air game?

 

[6gun]

First off, I'm new to airguns. Just recently picked up an Impact M4 for some pest control around the garden. I'm no stranger to rimfire competition and PRS.

I can understand why Heckler and Colon (Team MDT) would run the DRS Pro. I seem to be having a hard time understanding why you would choose that rifle with a lower air reserve than, say, the Panthera.

Am I missing something? Also, why not .25 cal? All the top NRL Hunter and even some of the PRS centerfire guys are moving toward heavy for caliber projectiles.

What do I need to learn, or am I thinking along the right lines to start understanding playing the "PRS/NRL" style air game?

One thing I've learned is don't worry about a trend with new odd stuff unless it sticks around got a couple years. Sometimes it stays like slugs or 6.5 mememore but most of them fade from popularity after the marketing hype and fomo buys. I don't know why about the Drs in general unless that form factor really sends the sails up for somebody.

I've been a fan of 22 projectiles in the 25 cal weight class for a while (34gr slugs or 25gr pellets)

 

[steve123]

Someone more knowledgeable with likely chime in but...

Just having that DRS PRO chassis is something that is a great benefit IMHO.

I'm imagining those top competitors have highly modified guns though so everything is optimized for these games. Just enough air and fps to finish one stage to compete at the highest level.

I can't remember which one, PRS or NRL, but one of these organizations prevented 25 cal slugs above 49 grains being used so that left the Altaros 22 cal 40gr King as a top pick because of the .21 G1 BC.

I'd personally choose the Altaros 60gr 25cal/.245 G1 BC if I had a choice for these games because I'm familiar with it's capabilities.

 

[Centercut]

The 4th place shooter was not a sponsored full time Pro, and was only 1 or 2 hits behind 2nd and 3rd. So he wasn’t given a gun to compete, and used his .22 Panthera with 40 grain Altaros Kings. To me, this was the most impressive PRS performance at RMAC.
Ondrej at @Altaros should send him a years supply of those slugs….

 

[6gun]

Someone more knowledgeable with likely chime in but...

Just having that DRS PRO chassis is something that is a great benefit IMHO.

I'm imagining those top competitors have highly modified guns though so everything is optimized for these games. Just enough air and fps to finish one stage to compete at the highest level.

I can't remember which one, PRS or NRL, but one of these organizations prevented 25 cal slugs above 49 grains being used so that left the Altaros 22 cal 40gr King as a top pick because of the .21 G1 BC.

I'd personally choose the Altaros 60gr 25cal/.245 G1 BC if I had a choice for these games because I'm familiar with it's capabilities.

Whats the longest shot typically and how small in those games? Just for my own bc curiosity

 

[zer0dev]

Someone more knowledgeable with likely chime in but...

Just having that DRS PRO chassis is something that is a great benefit IMHO.

I'm imagining those top competitors have highly modified guns though so everything is optimized for these games. Just enough air and fps to finish one stage to compete at the highest level.

I can't remember which one, PRS or NRL, but one of these organizations prevented 25 cal slugs above 49 grains being used so that left the Altaros 22 cal 40gr King as a top pick because of the .21 G1 BC.

I'd personally choose the Altaros 60gr 25cal/.245 G1 BC if I had a choice for these games because I'm familiar with it's capabilities.

PRS has the 49 gr limit. But now NRL22 has a fpe limit. So you could shoot 60s... but they're gonna be going slooooowwwww.

There's no inherent advantage by caliber, it's all about BC.

Whats the longest shot typically and how small in those games? Just for my own bc curiosity

The longest shot was 240 on stage 4. It was a high angle so that was interesting. I thought the target sizes were pretty fair. Nothing was bigger than a mil, with many in the .6 range, and a few smaller.

I thought it was a fair COF. It was a bit one note - a lot of troop lines, a bit too much modified prone, but nothing too gimmicky and no memory games. And the props were fun. I had a great time with it, and the heat relented just enough to be enjoyable.

 

[6gun]

PRS has the 49 gr limit. But now NRL22 has a fpe limit. So you could shoot 60s... but they're gonna be going slooooowwwww.

There's no inherent advantage by caliber, it's all about BC.


The longest shot was 240 on stage 4. It was a high angle so that was interesting. I thought the target sizes were pretty fair. Nothing was bigger than a mil, with many in the .6 range, and a few smaller.

I thought it was a fair COF. It was a bit one note - a lot of troop lines, a bit too much modified prone, but nothing too gimmicky and no memory games. And the props were fun. I had a great time with it, and the heat relented just enough to be enjoyable.

240 is a shot, but it's doable with some lighter modern slippery slugs. 0.6 mil is about 2 moa iirc and that's a challenge. I think id be more comfortable with 31 grain 22 airgun slugs for that than I would've been with subsonic RWS 22lr.

The air use per stage would definitely be a strong consideration for those needs.

 

[steve123]

Curious so looked it up and 110 fpe max regardless of caliber for NRL22.

That'd be 908 fps/110 fpe for the A60gr.
You guys using 22 cal are in the low 1000's with the A40 gr IIRC, right?

Don't know for sure but might have problems with enough air to finish a stage and maybe the 60gr 25cal fitting in mags??

Darn makes me want to go try NRL22 again but I'd probably leave discouraged at my current limitations of gear and physicality.
Though it'd be fun to see the looks on people's faces using a airgun.

 

[zer0dev]

The air use per stage would definitely be a strong consideration for those needs.

Don't know for sure but might have problems with enough air to finish a stage and maybe the 60gr 25cal fitting in mags??

In PRS high round count stages are becoming more common, 15+. So for sure air capacity is an issue even with a .22 cal DRS.

You guys using 22 cal are in the low 1000's with the A40 gr IIRC, right?

The 700 mm barrels can push the 40s in the low 1000s, but I think Francis / Chad were more like 980 with those Corbin slugs. I'm shooting the 40s around 965 with my 600 mm. I don't know what the upper limits are before accuracy get dicey. But I can say that reg pressures over 165/170 start to get unstable, and air usage is of course a bigger concern at that level. That's esp true with the DRS where you've got a 230 bar pressure limit with the 300 cc aluminum tube (even the CF tube when available is only 250 bar).

I just moved my Panthera into a Delta Force v2 chassis. It's got a 350 cc, 300 bar titanium tube. With a ~275 bar fill I can get 18-20 shots. I'm really excited to get that rifle out into some matches this year.

 

[farmerjoe99]

Most of its been addressed but just to add another voice I'd say its largely three things, ease of balancing/adding weights combined with rigidity of the MDT chassis, level of adjustability for perfect fitment for consistent NPA and then MDT chassis so team equipment.

Like mentioned currently rules favor .22 IMO and from there the DRS PRO does come closer to ready to run from the factory vs Panthera as I see it. Though there definitely is many other factors those are just the first that come to mind.

 

[zer0dev]

the DRS PRO does come closer to ready to run from the factory vs Panthera as I see it

I'd put an asterisk there for the time being. The DRS has a shifting POI issue which, to my knowledge, is being researched and will eventually be fixed. I don't now how that will be made available to current rifles or if it will be a silent "upgrade" again. But I will bet money those parts were made available to certain people at RMAC. I don't see any way, given the DRS rifles I've seen friends shoot (and other social media posts), how it could be otherwise.

 

[Centercut]

I'd put an asterisk there for the time being. The DRS has a shifting POI issue which, to my knowledge, is being researched and will eventually be fixed. I don't now how that will be made available to current rifles or if it will be a silent "upgrade" again. But I will bet money those parts were made available to certain people at RMAC. I don't see any way, given the DRS rifles I've seen friends shoot (and other social media posts), how it could be otherwise.

I agree. Just from a common sense point the air tube (plenum) around half the barrel in a Panthera is a steady consistent pressure and therefore a steady torque on the barrel.

For the DRS, the barrel is surrounded by the air pressure tube which changes from 230 to 175? bar or whatever the lower shooting limit is (usually reg pressure). So the torque on the barrel is not constant as it is with the Panthera/Dynamic/King.

This could be the cause of the wondering POI that is frequently discussed for the DRS. At RMAC we saw the paid Pro shooters with the DRS, but the other very good non pros that pay for their own guns were shooting Panthera.

 

[zer0dev]

I agree. Just from a common sense point the air tube (plenum) around half the barrel in a Panthera is a steady consistent pressure and therefore a steady torque on the barrel.

For the DRS, the barrel is surrounded by the air pressure tube which changes from 230 to 175? bar or whatever the lower shooting limit is (usually reg pressure). So the torque on the barrel is not constant as it is with the Panthera/Dynamic/King.

This could be the cause of the wondering POI that is frequently discussed for the DRS. At RMAC we saw the paid Pro shooters with the DRS, but the other very good non pros that pay for their own guns were shooting Panthera.

I have somewhat unsubstantiated info that there's a machining tolerance issue with either the barrel inlet (the brass part) or the block, or both, such that the barrel wanders in the block even after it's secured with the grub screw. I have not heard that the change in pressure of the airtube is a contributing factor. But my info is a bit old... so I don't know where they are now or what / if the fix is.