Ha! Yes, hard to count how many shots when they are all hole in hole.
Especially when you’re at 250 yards and it’s hard to see exactly. Well, unless you have a Tier1 scope of course. Upvote 0
Why “shot count” is misleading.
- Thread starter Centercut
- Start date
Ha! Yes, hard to count how many shots when they are all hole in hole.
Especially when you’re at 250 yards and it’s hard to see exactly. Well, unless you have a Tier1 scope of course. I think some of you missed the point. Spouting out the shot count without qualifying it means little... I thought I made that point in the next paragraph but perhaps I assumed incorrectly.
Of course there are times when gross shot count is preferred over an efficient tune. Or making bigly power gives you a woody. Or having an efficient tune with a big bottle is your preference. I was only making the point t that just spouting your shot count without any other information really doesn’t mean much.
Of course there are times when gross shot count is preferred over an efficient tune. Or making bigly power gives you a woody. Or having an efficient tune with a big bottle is your preference. I was only making the point t that just spouting your shot count without any other information really doesn’t mean much.
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Ha! Yes, hard to count how many shots when they are all hole in hole.
Glad you took it as a joke, as it was meant to be. Seriously though, I have a Red Wolf in .177cal (that gets a ridiculous amount of shots per fill) and recently purchased a Red Wolf .22cal HP that will not get as many shots per fill. Similar rifles, but very different in their application and performance.
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Many of us aren't scientists, engineers or mathematicians. I want to know how many shots I can expect before I have to pump the thing up. It's just another simple piece of information that can be helpful in deciding on if a particular gun will do what I want or need it to.
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Im a shot count guy. Im also a hunter in high target areas such as gophers. I have to walk around. So i dont want a gun that is rediculously over powered that gets a crappy shot count! It doesnt take that much power to kill a gopher. I like 800 fps regardless of caliber. I like to have at least 50 shots on the reg with my wildcat.25 and .22 compatto. Both are getting 50 shots at 800 fps. So i guess i ask whatever i need to to know if the gun is capable of meeting my needs if it is a gun i may be interested in....
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I have an issue with what is doable with a hand pump. I see all the time, advice about large bottles and high max. filling pressures being not hand pump friendly, when what really matters is how many pumps per shot is what's important. What is the difference between 30 shots per hundred pumps on a gun that has a 500 cc bottle and one that has a 150 cc tank. They are equally hand pump friendly for the same amount of shots. It's only if you decide to fill the larger bottle gun to the max that it gets difficult to pump. The smaller tube gun will probably harder to pump because it will require higher pressure to achieve that 30 shots than the larger capacity bottle that will give you the same number of shots from a lower pressure. I know that some of you will not understand what I am trying to say. Perhaps somebody with better writing skills will be able to explain this better than me.
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All figures can be "misleading" unless the full context is known, I see nothing wrong in asking, "how many shots are you getting at that tune", I already know the size of the air reservoir, and all other figures have been stated (or would also be included in the question).
An honest John, once pointed out, that in the "figures" given* by the company he works for in relation to the performance of their product they give (gave) "best case" IE "47ftlb. shots per fill 100" Without stating that the "100" was when the the gun was tuned down and not shooting at 47ftlb, That is/was "misleading".
* I believe they now give (slightly) more honest "figures".
An honest John, once pointed out, that in the "figures" given* by the company he works for in relation to the performance of their product they give (gave) "best case" IE "47ftlb. shots per fill 100" Without stating that the "100" was when the the gun was tuned down and not shooting at 47ftlb, That is/was "misleading".
* I believe they now give (slightly) more honest "figures".
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I agree, shot count is important, but with a frame of reference. If I remember, an Impact in .177 in the sub-12 foot pound version gives about 450 shots per fill. Same gun in 25 caliber and 45 foot pounds will give more like, well, I'm not sure because my equipment only fills to 3000 PSI so my shot count is significantly lower than another Impact set the same way, with higher fill pressures.
Or, my Marauder, I get 50 shots per fill. It's a .22 shooting about 22 foot pounds. Out of the box, it shot 28 foot pounds, and only got 30 shots.
As long as it's shooting the way you want, go ahead and tell them what the shot count is and watch their heads spin when you get large shot counts when they assume all the other numbers are just like their guns. They don't need to know everything!
Good discussion!
Or, my Marauder, I get 50 shots per fill. It's a .22 shooting about 22 foot pounds. Out of the box, it shot 28 foot pounds, and only got 30 shots.
As long as it's shooting the way you want, go ahead and tell them what the shot count is and watch their heads spin when you get large shot counts when they assume all the other numbers are just like their guns. They don't need to know everything!
Good discussion!
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Chuck,
How many "iguanas per fill" do you get on the attack cat? Lol
As with most general or non-specific questions, the most appropriate(but terribly unsatisfying) answer is....
"It depends".
Followed by a Q & A session to try to determined the specific conditions/parameters relavent to the question. Then an accurate answer may or not be uncovered.
How many "iguanas per fill" do you get on the attack cat? Lol
As with most general or non-specific questions, the most appropriate(but terribly unsatisfying) answer is....
"It depends".
Followed by a Q & A session to try to determined the specific conditions/parameters relavent to the question. Then an accurate answer may or not be uncovered.
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I look at shot count this way, it's good to know just how many shots you have available.
But say if my gun is shooting 40 shots at 40fpe. The reality is that just like I do not drive my car until its completely empty, I am more than likely going to top off my gun before that 40th shot.
Matter of fact I am probably topping off at somewhere between 25 - 30.
To me there is shot count and there's shots I'm going to actually use, and while it's great knowing a gun can shoot 100 shots per fill, I'm never using 90 - 100, that is like driving around with the fuel light on, imo.
But say if my gun is shooting 40 shots at 40fpe. The reality is that just like I do not drive my car until its completely empty, I am more than likely going to top off my gun before that 40th shot.
Matter of fact I am probably topping off at somewhere between 25 - 30.
To me there is shot count and there's shots I'm going to actually use, and while it's great knowing a gun can shoot 100 shots per fill, I'm never using 90 - 100, that is like driving around with the fuel light on, imo.
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Your analogy is comparing apples with oranges. Following your ratio you will not finish a bottle of coke/water/beer completely, because you’ll be out of the drink and have an empty bottle. So you open a new bottle and start drinking from that, while leaving a bit in the old bottle. After all: You don’t want to get it empty... Quite strange if you ask me... Now if you’d say: I don’t want to be stuck with half a magazine full of pellets while suddenly being out of air, that would make more sense to me, but to each his own...
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G
Guest
Guest
Many people use "shot count" as a way to measure how efficiently a gun is using the available air charge.
For example, a while back a friend bought a new Wildcat MKII Standard with 700mm barrel in .25 caliber. He asked me to install a Huma regulator for maximum consistency and asked me to tune it to the factory specification of 47 fpe, and said he wanted me to get him the most shots possible. When I was finished the Wildcat MKII was getting 110 full power shots at an average velocity of 50 fpe...twice as many shots as before.
This is not particularly important to me as I have five carbon fiber tanks and am never going to be more than arms length from one of them when I am shooting, but it was important to him so I made it possible. Now if he tells his friends that his Wildcat gets 110 shots and asks how many theirs are getting and they are getting half as many shots as him, does that mean their guns aren't tuned well? No, it just means that one is taking more advantage of the available air, while the other is not. Is one rifle better than the other? That's a matter of opinion, and you know the old saying...opinions are like Mothers, everyone has one.
Happy Mothers Day!
For example, a while back a friend bought a new Wildcat MKII Standard with 700mm barrel in .25 caliber. He asked me to install a Huma regulator for maximum consistency and asked me to tune it to the factory specification of 47 fpe, and said he wanted me to get him the most shots possible. When I was finished the Wildcat MKII was getting 110 full power shots at an average velocity of 50 fpe...twice as many shots as before.
This is not particularly important to me as I have five carbon fiber tanks and am never going to be more than arms length from one of them when I am shooting, but it was important to him so I made it possible. Now if he tells his friends that his Wildcat gets 110 shots and asks how many theirs are getting and they are getting half as many shots as him, does that mean their guns aren't tuned well? No, it just means that one is taking more advantage of the available air, while the other is not. Is one rifle better than the other? That's a matter of opinion, and you know the old saying...opinions are like Mothers, everyone has one.
Happy Mothers Day!
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I single load every gun I use so it's never about magazines.
Its probably has more to do with my Army background where I would always change out a partial magazine with a full one, then topped off the partial magazine so you always were ready to go.
Look at it from a hunting situation say you shoot it all the way down to that last shot, then out of no where comes that once in a lifetime opportunity, and you're just sitting there with a gun that needs to be refilled, or depleted to the change in poi.
I just never want to be in that position, ever..
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I think some of you missed the point. Spouting out the shot count without qualifying it means little... I thought I made that point in the next paragraph but perhaps I assumed incorrectly.
Of course there are times when gross shot count is preferred over an efficient tune. Or making bigly power gives you a woody. Or having an efficient tune with a big bottle is your preference. I was only making the point t that just spouting your shot count without any other information really doesn’t mean much.
For sure! I can only assume you were finishing a conversation started eleswhere?
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Shot count is always apples to oranges. It really doesn't mean much, unless, like Centercut said, you qualify the count with other information. Sure my gun gets 60 shots per fill, at 6 fpe (Crosman 1701P), and my Marauder gets 50 shots at 22 fpe. On the surface, the Marauder looks like it's a whole lot more efficient until you consider the air reservoir is at least 4 times bigger. Ya need more info!
Great discussion
Great discussion
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There are many variables to consider with PCP guns and shot count is only one variable. I like to have a decent shot count like everyone else I imagine. It is an indicator if your rifle is shooting efficient or not to a point. After chasing power and having very low shot count I had to realize that I was trying to make my 25 caliber into something it wasn't designed to do. After getting a 30 caliber I went through my rifles and tuned them at lower power to be more efficient thus improving shot count. Another misleading claim involved with our hobby/sport/addiction is velocity! I've learned the hard way to not trust those stated velocities unless I'm shooting it across the chronograph and seeing it myself.
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G
Guest
Guest
One thing that is not mentioned is elevation. If you take a guy in Florida shooting the exact same gun as a guy in Colorado the numbers will be different. Outside temperature/pressures affects everything.
For example I can make a bottle of 50 degree water boil just by changing the pressure inside the bottle.
For example I can make a bottle of 50 degree water boil just by changing the pressure inside the bottle.
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