Why Picatinny

[JimD]

Dovetail work only on rifles without significant recoil. In PBs, that is rimfires. The scope will not stay in place in dovetail mounts if there is significant recoil. The rings will slip. So it isn't really correct to say PBs use dovetails. It is more correct to say rimfire PBs sometimes use dovetails. Centerfires use weaver or picatinny mounts (which are kind of the same thing).

But even on my near zero recoil air rifles I prefer picatinny mounts. I don't see appearance as an issue. I think functionally dovetail usually work fine by the same ability to slide under heavy recoil means a scope on a dovetail mount on a airgun will move from rough handling. Picatinny is just a more secure way to mount a scope. That is why it is the industry standard.

 

[dizzums]

pic is more convenient and lots of stuff made for it ... i can say though that the 'standard' is too loose though in my experience, if youre not careful you can wind up with rings that fit real wonky on a given rail - sit cocked, or dont seat properly all the way down and ride on the clamp points, etc ...

 

[bustachip]

The problem with the 11mm dovetail, is it really limits your scope ring options!

If you fall in love with the popular Arken SH4 scope, (or any scope) with a 34mm tube, and attempted to mount it on a rifle with a 11mm dovetail, you will quickly realize that your scope ring options are limited.

VERY LIMITED.

I found only 3 sets of normal scope rings that would accomplish this, without useing adapters, or a cantilever style mount.

My only 3 options were:

Unbranded scope rings from china ( Inexpensive. I ordered a set about 3 weeks ago, and still have not received them)....
1 set from WestHunter that utilize a plastic spacers for 30mm and 1" scopes (Inexpensive, but I was not fond of the spacer design)
1 set of $50 rings from X-Accu which I ordered yesterday, and should have soon.

Thats the problem with the 11mm dovetail, is it really limits your scope ring options!

If not for X-Accu offering these scope rings, the other options were sketchy no-name brand rings, cantilever scope mount, or adapters which add to scope height and complex the process.

Bingo!

 

[NorthernBallistics]

Dovetail is not really put on many new rifles, none in the firearms community. Picatinny is now the industry standard for most optics companies. It costs more to have more than one option. so most companies stick with the pic rail.

 

[MrP]

pic is more convenient and lots of stuff made for it ... i can say though that the 'standard' is too loose though in my experience, if youre not careful you can wind up with rings that fit real wonky on a given rail - sit cocked, or dont seat properly all the way down and ride on the clamp points, etc ...

My experience as well

 

[PumaCarl]

On springers, dovetail has always been a pain, needing an additional block to curtail movement, and forget about removing scope and putting it back to the same zero. When I put a pic rail on a dovetail I have always found a way to utilize stop pins, or I will just use dovetail inserts in the pic rings, even with these you can still utilize a stop pin. I put pic rings on all my scopes because I switch them around a lot and the spreads are all uniform. When switching, I mount a laser on my gun to match the reticle, swap scope, match new scope to laser, and I am sighted in again. No wasted air or ammo. The only guns I have left that use dovetail rings are my FWB124D's and I avoid moving their scopes like the plague.

 

[bustachip]

On springers, dovetail has always been a pain, needing an additional block to curtail movement, and forget about removing scope and putting it back to the same zero. When I put a pic rail on a dovetail I have always found a way to utilize stop pins, or I will just use dovetail inserts in the pic rings, even with these you can still utilize a stop pin. I put pic rings on all my scopes because I switch them around a lot and the spreads are all uniform. When switching, I mount a laser on my gun to match the reticle, swap scope, match new scope to laser, and I am sighted in again. No wasted air or ammo. The only guns I have left that use dovetail rings are my FWB124D's and I avoid moving their scopes like the plague.

Got any pics of your laser set up?

 

[PumaCarl]

Got any pics of your laser set up?

Amazon.com

It is just a cheapy like this, probably is this exact one. The important thing is that it has finger turnable adjustments, which makes it much easier. You just have to be real careful with not bumping anything mid-process and aim at the same spot at the same distance.

 

[Florida_Man]

There is room for both in the market!
My Revere functions great with dovetail and a 1” scope. My P35 great with a pic and 30mm scope or my Pard.

 

[Frozenspyder]

I do like the look of dovetails on a classically styled rifle. However, pic rails are standardized. Dovetails, not quite so much.
Imagine my surprise when I bought a European pb(centerfire) and 3/8 dovetail rings didn't work. I quickly found out that 3/8 and 11mm dovetails are cut to different angles and it doesn't take much recoil to make them come loose if the rings don't match the dovetail.
Prior to that, I'd just wrongly assumed that all dovetails were the same. It probably doesn't matter much on most rimfires or airguns, but it's something I pay more attention to now.

 

[MartinT]

If you have all your scopes outfitted with picatinny rings, you can use these for airguns with dovetails:

They work perfect! And can be used for all picatinny scope rings, red dots and more…
This gives you the versatility to use ANYTHING you have on ALL airguns you have…

A prime example of this is is the Daystate Alfa-/Deltawolf/Ghost line, the toprail is picatinny, but the rail below it is dovetail. With these little adapters, you can mount anything anywhere on it!

 

[NorthernBallistics]

That's a great little tool/adapter, I found them on amazon for $10. https://amzn.to/3OBi0jt

 

[Steveoo]

I see this with air rifles as well as PB rifles. Why do people insist on using picatinny rails. Even if a rifle is equipped with dovetail, they will install a dovetail to picatinny adaptor just to use the picatinny. All the years I use whatever is on the rifle as it come from the factory, if any, and never had a problem. Some say it is better for recoil movement, but the adaptor is set on the dovetail anyway. Others say it is for replacing it on the same position after removing it. That you can do with dovetail as well. Anyway, once I installed the scope I don't have a reason to remove it often. For me one is not better than the other, it is just different. I am just curious what other people think about this.

Good question.
It's because the dovetail grooves on springer air rifles/pistols are compromised by the radius of the cylinder making them, at best, shallow grooves.
Piccy rails rely on the upside, and underside for grip, which is a much bigger area of contact.
In addition, Piccy rails have grooves running across them at 90 degrees to the dovetails which can act as perfect arrestor grooves, especially if using Red Dot reflex sights which have a corresponding ledge on the underside designed to perfectly fit into the groove. A professional choice.

There is not a lot to be gained by fitting one to PCP stuff which often have flat top receivers and of course zero recoil to worry about.

 

[MongooseV8]

I don't think it is the industry standard as dovetail is widely used as well, on air rifles as well as PB rifles. I cannot say if there is a wider range available or not but even then, why do you prefer it? Just because of the 2 explanations above? Just asking.

That is one of the biggest issues with the dovetail. There really isnt a standard dovetail, every manufacture uses difference dimensions. If you use rings that clamp from one side and the specs arent exact, your scope is now off and angled from 2 axis instead of 1 axis. This will cause windage to be zeroed at one fixed distance, then you will need to dial extra even with zero wind.

Pic rails are a standard dimension, and here in the US it has in fact become the standard style mount. There are virtually no PB with dovetails, and the few that exist also have drilled and tapped receivers to allow other mounting systmes.

The other reason is scopes are getting heavier, and even under the mild recoil of a magnum springer ring drift is a big issue.

 

[Peskådot671]

I think the OP went MIA. Maybe it's not what he wanted to hear?

 

[Caliber 22]

No, I am reading each post.
I use both and don't have a problem with either.

 

[Airgun Al]

There are virtually no PB with dovetails, and the few that exist also have drilled and tapped receivers to allow other mounting systmes.

The Ruger 10/22 would be one example.
One of the most popular rifles in America.

 

[PumaCarl]

The Ruger 10/22 would be one example.
One of the most popular rifles in America.

This is true! In fact it was so popular with me that I bought a Tactical Machine Ruger 10/22 receiver with the Picatinny rail machined right into it.

 

[MongooseV8]

The Ruger 10/22 would be one example.
One of the most popular rifles in America.

The Ruger 10/22 does not have a dovetail. The receiver is drilled and tapped for a myriad of scope bases. And actually the last one I bought included a Weaver style base. I had an all original 10/22 from ~1967 that had a dovetail attachment in the box. But my comment was in the modern context, and there are almost none that have milled dovetails.

 

[JungleShooter]

The lack of standarization is an evil that has plagued the shooting community since the invention of the stick that shoots metal.....

And if gun manufacturers deserve a slap on the left cheek for not standardizing airgun barrel sizes (beyond the nominal .22 or .25, what a joke ) — they deserve one on the right cheek for not standardizing dovetail rail sizes.




I noticed how some posters declared flat out that picatinny looks ugly.

It would help the rest of us reading these unqualified comments if the posters stated that they usually enjoy guns with wooden stocks, they prefer classic lines, they have a lot of springers —
and many of them hate what they derrogatively call "tacticool."


And I have to agree with their preference of rail for their preferred guns:
A picatinny rail on a Huntsman Revere just doesn't fit as well as a dovetail rail.



➠ Now, for that much maligned group called the "tacticool crowd" — you know who you are! — an RTI Prophet or an FX M3 just looks so much more aggressive with that serrated shark-tooth rail!

Even the word picatinny sounds more aggressive than dovetail:

▪ Picatinny Arsenal is highly regarded for it's innovative military weapons research.¹

▪ Doves?!? These meek & mild animals — these symbols of peace — should be part of a killing instrument?!? —
And let's not forget, they are those stinking sh¡#ing pest that two of my living heroes here on AGN have shot down over 10.000 of them — because of all the damage they have caused.



Be assured, I won't ever own a Huntsman Revere (or anything resembling those kind of classic lines, or wood stock).
Far worse: I will only buy bullpups.
(I know, I've got it bad.)


And since I like to mount my scopes as low as possible — and like to use adjustable scope rings with lots of adjustment — and scopes with 34mm tubes —
➠ the Burris XTR Signature rings offer me both the lowest mounting, and the most adjustment.
And they only come in picatinny.
➧➧➧ So, there you have it.

Matthias



¹ https://home.army.mil/picatinny/about/history