Why not a regular magazine instead of...

[steve123]

circular rotary style magazines that are the current norm. APPLICATION would be for ""SLUG""" specific PCP airguns, even pistols?????? Especially since slugs are becoming more popular and cheaper to buy. 

By a regular magazine I'm referring to the single stack kind we've all used in firearms like 1911 pistols and a system which has become the most used way to deliver a projectile in a repeater platform. 

It'd be neat because these mags could be removed unlike the Huben and SK-19. We could have flush fitting mags for hunting, and have high capacity mags for plinking. Hopefully these mags would solve reliability problems that seems to plague semi's. 

Doesn't it seem like this is a logical step in the evolution of slug shooting with PCP's as far as a repeater? 

Of course we demand an optimal twist rate, land, groove, and bore configuration in barrels designed to work well for certain slug dimensions so we don't have to screw around with various problems anymore like is commonly happening with PCP's and slugs. 

Wouldn't it be fun to have an accurate and reliable little slug/bullet shooting semiauto 10fpe PCP pistol that held twenty .17 cal slugs??!! Or equally a little carbine rifle that held 40 rounds in a mag??!! Or in whatever caliber and FPE one could want??!!

Another idea that would work well with slugs and getting away from removable mags, how about a "tube fed" pump, or lever action, even a semiauto, like a lot of firearms utilize??? 

Your opinions please. 

I edited my OP to hopefully get my point across better.

 

[Corvid_hunter]

I'm guessing the soft lead of a slug would be deformed when using a conventional mag and feeding ramp.

 

[Dairyboy]

While I think these would be awesome I feel like there's a greater chance of the slugs getting damaged that way but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Guest]

So spot on man! I only punch paper and prefer singleshot due Im 100% bullet shooter and atm magz kinda limit lenght of the used projectile so much its just stupid. 

 

[2fast2furious]

These air rifle are pellet gun..not firearms. They typically use pellets hence the name pellet gun. People are just getting into slugs. Pellet and slugs are soft lead unlike a bullet. So stacking them in a ak47 and ar15 style mag will not work. Why do you wonder why most if not all mags for pellet guns are roatating mags. Cause it just feeds better.

 

[steve123]

Yes slugs will probably get slight marks on from them rubbing against each other, but slugs get marks on them from Rotary Cylinder/RC mags too, especially when there are sharp edges in the RC mag, or they aren't indexing correctly. We all know that pellets are much more delicate than slugs and RC mags can have maddening clipping issues on pellets.

And slugs get marks on them from rubbing against each other in the bag/box they come in which doesn't adversely affect them, or not enough to ruin accuracy.

If the feed lips on a regular magazine are making marks on a slug all it takes is a couple minutes of polishing the edges of the feed lips with 400 grit sandpaper to fix any scratching. If feeding from a regular mag is executed correctly, like we hope it should be, any marks should be minimal. 

I think, and I could be wrong, that with proper engineering, slugs and regular mags could be accurate enough for most applications.

Well I bet the semiauto/SA slug guns I described would be far more accurate than the underpowered, and inaccurate, SA Co2 BB guns we've been suffering. 

Okay maybe we might not get 1/2" groups at 50Y but I'd settle for 1.5" at that distance, or more to my thinking, 1/2" at 20Y with a SA, or neat pump, or lever gun, that is either mag fed or tube fed. 

Additionally I've had a ton of fun with 22rf's and centerfires that were far less accurate than 1.5" at 50Y, these using lead bullets too BTW, and haven't you all had fun with these too??!! 

 

[Corvid_hunter]

Yes slugs will probably get slight marks on from them rubbing against each other, but slugs get marks on them from Rotary Cylinder/RC mags too, especially when there are sharp edges in the RC mag, or they aren't indexing correctly. We all know that pellets are much more delicate than slugs and RC mags can have maddening clipping issues on pellets.

And slugs get marks on them from rubbing against each other in the bag/box they come in which doesn't adversely affect them, or not enough to ruin accuracy.

If the feed lips on a regular magazine are making marks on a slug all it takes is a couple minutes of polishing the edges of the feed lips with 400 grit sandpaper to fix any scratching. If feeding from a regular mag is executed correctly, like we hope it should be, any marks should be minimal. 

I think, and I could be wrong, that with proper engineering, slugs and regular mags could be accurate enough for most applications.

Well I bet the semiauto/SA slug guns I described would be far more accurate than the underpowered, and inaccurate, SA Co2 BB guns we've been suffering. 

Okay maybe we might not get 1/2" groups at 50Y but I'd settle for 1.5" at that distance, or more to my thinking, 1/2" at 20Y with a SA, or neat pump, or lever gun, that is either mag fed or tube fed. 

Additionally I've had a ton of fun with 22rf's and centerfires that were far less accurate than 1.5" at 50Y, these using lead bullets too BTW, and haven't you all had fun with these too??!!

I don't know if you have noticed this or not, but the majority of people who shoot air rifles are very much into accuracy, not the opposite.

 

[steve123]

 

These air rifle are pellet gun..not firearms. They typically use pellets hence the name pellet gun. People are just getting into slugs. Pellet and slugs are soft lead unlike a bullet. So stacking them in a ak47 and ar15 style mag will not work. Why do you wonder why most if not all mags for pellet guns are roatating mags. Cause it just feeds better.

The spring tension required to push against the small amount of total weight, a 17 cal, 20 cal, or 22 cal slug would have, in a single stack magazine, wouldn't be much, therefore certainly a possibility of minimal damage to lead projectiles. Unlike the heavy spring required in a 45 cal mag, or 9mm mag, a firearm requires to push on that large amount of weight. But nobody has tried this yet that I know of? I'm sure there are total weight limitations involved which must be explored. A lead slug is not super delicate.

Notably in pellet guns, RC mags were designed/meant solely for pellets. now with the advent of slugs they are being used for them too. The RC system isn't perfect, is it?, that's a rhetorical question, of course they aren't. 

Copy and pasted in my OP, - """""""this would be for ""SLUG""" specific PCP airguns"""""" Not all PCP's are pellet guns, some shoot slugs, some arrows, some paintballs, etc?. C'mon man, think outside the box a little.

And that's perfectly fine if there are those which don't feel the need to advocate the subject matter my post is describing. I'm not offended in the least, afterall I love pellet guns. As well I'm open to the wonderful possibility of what "might be", this seemingly unexplored area of mag fed repeating PCP's.

 

[steve123]

So spot on man! I only punch paper and prefer singleshot due Im 100% bullet shooter and atm magz kinda limit lenght of the used projectile so much its just stupid.

atm mag, I'm sorry I don't get what atm means???

I suppose both a RC mag and regular mag/RM could be made to fit any length projectile. 

If accuracy is of utmost desire then single loading is paramount I would think. But if a hunter didn't need utmost accuracy, and wanted a quick 2nd shot, a regular single stack 3-5 shot magazine might be okay, or even a tube fed would work better???

 

[steve123]

Yes slugs will probably get slight marks on from them rubbing against each other, but slugs get marks on them from Rotary Cylinder/RC mags too, especially when there are sharp edges in the RC mag, or they aren't indexing correctly. We all know that pellets are much more delicate than slugs and RC mags can have maddening clipping issues on pellets.

And slugs get marks on them from rubbing against each other in the bag/box they come in which doesn't adversely affect them, or not enough to ruin accuracy.

If the feed lips on a regular magazine are making marks on a slug all it takes is a couple minutes of polishing the edges of the feed lips with 400 grit sandpaper to fix any scratching. If feeding from a regular mag is executed correctly, like we hope it should be, any marks should be minimal. 

I think, and I could be wrong, that with proper engineering, slugs and regular mags could be accurate enough for most applications.

Well I bet the semiauto/SA slug guns I described would be far more accurate than the underpowered, and inaccurate, SA Co2 BB guns we've been suffering. 

Okay maybe we might not get 1/2" groups at 50Y but I'd settle for 1.5" at that distance, or more to my thinking, 1/2" at 20Y with a SA, or neat pump, or lever gun, that is either mag fed or tube fed. 

Additionally I've had a ton of fun with 22rf's and centerfires that were far less accurate than 1.5" at 50Y, these using lead bullets too BTW, and haven't you all had fun with these too??!!

I don't know if you have noticed this or not, but the majority of people who shoot air rifles are very much into accuracy, not the opposite.

Accuracy - do you realize that PCP airguns totally suck at 100Y compared to, say, a 6mmPPC centerfire benchrest rifle, which have agged in the .1's at 100Y??!! Now does that mean we should cry because our $2000 AG's only agg 1" at 100Y??!! No of course not. We accept what "is", and we "perceive" that we have accuray, however we still enjoy the capabilities of a PCP air rifle using pellets. 

On the other side of the coin, try 50Y with a BB gun. 

Now if I say 1.5" at 50Y is acceptable, to enjoy a reliable SA, pump, or lever, repeating PCP, using slugs, is out of line, hey to each their own then. And who said we couldn't see better accuracy than that?? Besides, there must be trainloads of PCP's that are 1.5"ers at 50Y. I've seen a few in my circle of friends as I'm sure many have. 

Plus slugs have a higher BC than pellets - less wind drift, don't forget to include this into "the equation". 

 

[tor47]

Rotary mags can probably handle different lengts of projectiles better, as they are not stacking against eachother.

 

[Buckshutr]

My question would be the orientation of a stacked mag. It has to stick up, down, or sideways. I don't see any of those options working with airguns. 

 

[Corvid_hunter]

Yes slugs will probably get slight marks on from them rubbing against each other, but slugs get marks on them from Rotary Cylinder/RC mags too, especially when there are sharp edges in the RC mag, or they aren't indexing correctly. We all know that pellets are much more delicate than slugs and RC mags can have maddening clipping issues on pellets.

And slugs get marks on them from rubbing against each other in the bag/box they come in which doesn't adversely affect them, or not enough to ruin accuracy.

If the feed lips on a regular magazine are making marks on a slug all it takes is a couple minutes of polishing the edges of the feed lips with 400 grit sandpaper to fix any scratching. If feeding from a regular mag is executed correctly, like we hope it should be, any marks should be minimal. 

I think, and I could be wrong, that with proper engineering, slugs and regular mags could be accurate enough for most applications.

Well I bet the semiauto/SA slug guns I described would be far more accurate than the underpowered, and inaccurate, SA Co2 BB guns we've been suffering. 

Okay maybe we might not get 1/2" groups at 50Y but I'd settle for 1.5" at that distance, or more to my thinking, 1/2" at 20Y with a SA, or neat pump, or lever gun, that is either mag fed or tube fed. 

Additionally I've had a ton of fun with 22rf's and centerfires that were far less accurate than 1.5" at 50Y, these using lead bullets too BTW, and haven't you all had fun with these too??!!

I don't know if you have noticed this or not, but the majority of people who shoot air rifles are very much into accuracy, not the opposite.

Accuracy - do you realize that PCP airguns totally suck at 100Y compared to, say, a 6mmPPC centerfire benchrest rifle, which have agged in the .1's at 100Y??!! Now does that mean we should cry because our $2000 AG's only agg 1" at 100Y??!! No of course not. We accept what "is", and we "perceive" that we have accuray, however we still enjoy the capabilities of a PCP air rifle using pellets. 

On the other side of the coin, try 50Y with a BB gun. 

Now if I say 1.5" at 50Y is acceptable, to enjoy a reliable SA, pump, or lever, repeating PCP, using slugs, is out of line, hey to each their own then. And who said we couldn't see better accuracy than that?? Besides, there must be trainloads of PCP's that are 1.5"ers at 50Y. I've seen a few in my circle of friends as I'm sure many have. 

Plus slugs have a higher BC than pellets - less wind drift, don't forget to include this into "the equation".

I reload, have I've owned and shot 6BR as well as many other accurate calibers. Mags like you are talking about aren't conducive to good accuracy.

 

[steve123]

Rotary mags can probably handle different lengts of projectiles better, as they are not stacking against each other.

Yes, that's true, but a problem we see is some weren't made long enough to begin with to handle longer projectiles. Like my original 25 cal FX Impact mag, it won't take a Beeman Kodiak pellet, but later on FX solved this. Kinda like a 38 special/357 mag revolver, it can take various length cartridges, but you don't see 20 shot revolvers.

I think many of us know the in's and out's of RC mag's. 

Let's try to imagine what a 20 shot RC mag would look like on a SA PCP pistol, or let's think about how far they stick out the side of a FX Impact now. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike RC mags, and I see why they were initially chosen for pellets.

In my Crossman 600 SA pistol the pellets rub against each other front to back, this might affect accuracy some but, MAN, that is a fun pistol, and wouldn't call it inaccurate. 

The Career's I used to own used the same concept, and I wouldn't call them inaccurate either. 

 

[Navnesen]

It’s been done in the past; .32 Caselman.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=POCGiy5VpxI

 

[steve123]

Yes slugs will probably get slight marks on from them rubbing against each other, but slugs get marks on them from Rotary Cylinder/RC mags too, especially when there are sharp edges in the RC mag, or they aren't indexing correctly. We all know that pellets are much more delicate than slugs and RC mags can have maddening clipping issues on pellets.

And slugs get marks on them from rubbing against each other in the bag/box they come in which doesn't adversely affect them, or not enough to ruin accuracy.

If the feed lips on a regular magazine are making marks on a slug all it takes is a couple minutes of polishing the edges of the feed lips with 400 grit sandpaper to fix any scratching. If feeding from a regular mag is executed correctly, like we hope it should be, any marks should be minimal. 

I think, and I could be wrong, that with proper engineering, slugs and regular mags could be accurate enough for most applications.

Well I bet the semiauto/SA slug guns I described would be far more accurate than the underpowered, and inaccurate, SA Co2 BB guns we've been suffering. 

Okay maybe we might not get 1/2" groups at 50Y but I'd settle for 1.5" at that distance, or more to my thinking, 1/2" at 20Y with a SA, or neat pump, or lever gun, that is either mag fed or tube fed. 

Additionally I've had a ton of fun with 22rf's and centerfires that were far less accurate than 1.5" at 50Y, these using lead bullets too BTW, and haven't you all had fun with these too??!!

I don't know if you have noticed this or not, but the majority of people who shoot air rifles are very much into accuracy, not the opposite.

Accuracy - do you realize that PCP airguns totally suck at 100Y compared to, say, a 6mmPPC centerfire benchrest rifle, which have agged in the .1's at 100Y??!! Now does that mean we should cry because our $2000 AG's only agg 1" at 100Y??!! No of course not. We accept what "is", and we "perceive" that we have accuray, however we still enjoy the capabilities of a PCP air rifle using pellets. 

On the other side of the coin, try 50Y with a BB gun. 

Now if I say 1.5" at 50Y is acceptable, to enjoy a reliable SA, pump, or lever, repeating PCP, using slugs, is out of line, hey to each their own then. And who said we couldn't see better accuracy than that?? Besides, there must be trainloads of PCP's that are 1.5"ers at 50Y. I've seen a few in my circle of friends as I'm sure many have. 

Plus slugs have a higher BC than pellets - less wind drift, don't forget to include this into "the equation".

I reload, have I've owned and shot 6BR as well as many other accurate calibers. Mags like you are talking about aren't conducive to good accuracy.

Oh you mean like the mags used in SA rifles and pistols all over the world to win those respective competitions these guns qualify for.

Or like my 6mmBR, that uses a 10 round AICS mag single stack mag, that regularly put's in .3" groups 100Y and did sub 2" of vertical at 1000Y last fall??? 

I was making a point, apparently it went right over your head. 

Okay, let's look at it from this approach. Is your shotgun accurate? Is your muzzleloader accurate? Is your BB gun accurate?. Is your worn out barreled great grandpappy's old family heirloom accurate. No not really, so they have no purpose then, right??? 

Or another way. I doubt if my $2000+ STI 2011 will win a benchrest match, but it is capable of winning any type of pistol match one would use this type of gun for. 

I've got plenty of accurate guns already, that are, or can be, used as a single shot!

I want a SA PCP air rifle or pistol for having fun, and being reliable, it doesn't have to win a BR match, lol. I'm pretty sure many of us would love just the PCP's I'm referring to in this thread. 

BTW, one of the most funnest times I've had with a gun was with the most inaccurate; 

A bunch of my shooting friends found out about a sale on RR BB guns that were $19.99 each. So we all bought one. The "purpose" was to have corny and light hearted competitions at our Christmas party. That we did, and I don't know when the last time was that I laughed so hard! One of the games consisted of driving pop cans off the edge of the concrete, this being man against man or teams. Those pop cans were not obedient at all, lol! It could take anywhere from 4 shots all the way to 20 shots to get one off the concrete. It was hilarious! Plus we were right next to each other poking each other when we cocked the RR, lol. And the aiming fluid added to the fun, lol.

 

[steve123]

It’s been done in the past; .32 Caselman.



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=POCGiy5VpxI

What a useless gun, lol, I kid, I kid, I love it!!! Kudo's to that smart inventor. 

Thanks a lot for that video, and that it shows exactly the concept's I'm talking about!

 

[steve123]

My question would be the orientation of a stacked mag. It has to stick up, down, or sideways. I don't see any of those options working with airguns.

How does through the grip sound? Coming from any other direction would be - odd?!

BB guns already have mags coming in "the normal way". 

 

[Corvid_hunter]

Yes slugs will probably get slight marks on from them rubbing against each other, but slugs get marks on them from Rotary Cylinder/RC mags too, especially when there are sharp edges in the RC mag, or they aren't indexing correctly. We all know that pellets are much more delicate than slugs and RC mags can have maddening clipping issues on pellets.

And slugs get marks on them from rubbing against each other in the bag/box they come in which doesn't adversely affect them, or not enough to ruin accuracy.

If the feed lips on a regular magazine are making marks on a slug all it takes is a couple minutes of polishing the edges of the feed lips with 400 grit sandpaper to fix any scratching. If feeding from a regular mag is executed correctly, like we hope it should be, any marks should be minimal. 

I think, and I could be wrong, that with proper engineering, slugs and regular mags could be accurate enough for most applications.

Well I bet the semiauto/SA slug guns I described would be far more accurate than the underpowered, and inaccurate, SA Co2 BB guns we've been suffering. 

Okay maybe we might not get 1/2" groups at 50Y but I'd settle for 1.5" at that distance, or more to my thinking, 1/2" at 20Y with a SA, or neat pump, or lever gun, that is either mag fed or tube fed. 

Additionally I've had a ton of fun with 22rf's and centerfires that were far less accurate than 1.5" at 50Y, these using lead bullets too BTW, and haven't you all had fun with these too??!!

I don't know if you have noticed this or not, but the majority of people who shoot air rifles are very much into accuracy, not the opposite.

Accuracy - do you realize that PCP airguns totally suck at 100Y compared to, say, a 6mmPPC centerfire benchrest rifle, which have agged in the .1's at 100Y??!! Now does that mean we should cry because our $2000 AG's only agg 1" at 100Y??!! No of course not. We accept what "is", and we "perceive" that we have accuray, however we still enjoy the capabilities of a PCP air rifle using pellets. 

On the other side of the coin, try 50Y with a BB gun. 

Now if I say 1.5" at 50Y is acceptable, to enjoy a reliable SA, pump, or lever, repeating PCP, using slugs, is out of line, hey to each their own then. And who said we couldn't see better accuracy than that?? Besides, there must be trainloads of PCP's that are 1.5"ers at 50Y. I've seen a few in my circle of friends as I'm sure many have. 

Plus slugs have a higher BC than pellets - less wind drift, don't forget to include this into "the equation".

I reload, have I've owned and shot 6BR as well as many other accurate calibers. Mags like you are talking about aren't conducive to good accuracy.

Oh you mean like the mags used in SA rifles and pistols all over the world to win those respective competitions these guns qualify for.

Or like my 6mmBR, that uses a 10 round AICS mag single stack mag, that regularly put's in .3" groups 100Y and did sub 2" of vertical at 1000Y last fall??? 

I was making a point, apparently it went right over your head. 

Okay, let's look at it from this approach. Is your shotgun accurate? Is your muzzleloader accurate? Is your BB gun accurate?. Is your worn out barreled great grandpappy's old family heirloom accurate. No not really, so they have no purpose then, right??? 

Or another way. I doubt if my $2000+ STI 2011 will win a benchrest match, but it is capable of winning any type of pistol match one would use this type of gun for. 

I've got plenty of accurate guns already, that are, or can be, used as a single shot!

I want a SA PCP air rifle or pistol for having fun, and being reliable, it doesn't have to win a BR match, lol. I'm pretty sure many of us would love just the PCP's I'm referring to in this thread. 

BTW, one of the most funnest times I've had with a gun was with the most inaccurate; 

A bunch of my shooting friends found out about a sale on RR BB guns that were $19.99 each. So we all bought one. The "purpose" was to have corny and light hearted competitions at our Christmas party. That we did, and I don't know when the last time was that I laughed so hard! One of the games consisted of driving pop cans off the edge of the concrete, this being man against man or teams. Those pop cans were not obedient at all, lol! It could take anywhere from 4 shots all the way to 20 shots to get one off the concrete. It was hilarious! Plus we were right next to each other poking each other when we cocked the RR, lol. And the aiming fluid added to the fun, lol.

We will agree to disagree.

 

[Eddie_E]

If you want a quick shooting, low powered, semi-auto just buy a Sig Virtus. It's a 30 rd belt fed plinker.

I'm more of an accurate target shooter myself, but by all means, have fun.