Why is it so hard to explain to powder guys hunting with air can be done on larger game?!

[pkrhed]

Depends on where you get to hunt I suppose. If you can use a 223 (or even a 22 mag rimfire) where you are going to hunt these coyotes I can see his point. No real reason to use an air rifle except to make it more difficult, lots more shots you could take and lots farther with a real varmint gun. And he probably sees the point of pesting as, you know, getting rid of as many pests as possible.
If you are trying to kill coyotes in suburbia or some other reason you can't use a PB there, then nothing wrong with using a PCP.

 

[sasquatch]

Coyote can definitely be taken regularly with airguns. Shot placement matters that much more from my side (I don't always make the best shot). Head, neck , spinal and solid body shots to the heart or lungs can definitely get it done. If your friends don't believe it, just do it and prove them wrong.

I am not an expert but I have taken a few coyotes in the last year. The main recommendation I would have is to use over 60ft lbs. Minimum 50ft lbs at ranges within 20 yards. But to be honest if I was dedicating my airgun to shoot coyotes I would be looking at something that can put out 100ft lbs for body shots within 100 yards. I have not taken a coyote with the new Umarex Gauntlet 2 in 30 but given the power it produces off the shelf it will definitely be capable of coyote perhaps out to 150 yards. I was cracking an old cast iron pan apart at 150 yards with JSB Knockouts on the Gauntlet 2 30.

The reason I recommend something for body shots out to 100 on a dedicated gun is because they often don't sit still long enough for the head shot. But I am also not saying someone cannot get it done with less. I like to drop my game before they cross a neighbors property.

I did notice shooting at about 50ft lbs sometimes the round would bounce off the skull if I wasn't just perfect on my shot. Think about that.

Just some thoughts. I have some coyote shots on my YouTube with 25 cal at about 70 ft lbs a week ago. Another one this spring at higher power for a head shot. It works great if you can drill the target with precision.

As far as powder burners. I am one of those. I reload and have been shooting them for decades. But I really prefer airguns for different reasons and I never understood what ft lbs energy meant until I started shooting coons and possums and then upped it to coyote. I got a better understanding on what I like and what it takes. I think some people just never believe what airguns can do til they see it. Just like archery sometimes still is..

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

People looking at air rifles like " bb " guns, has been whats allowed this sport to grow the way it has. Just wait until that changes, and it will. The guberment will step in and change things big time, and not for the better. Be careful what you wish for.

Really ? and how you know that ?......some insights that none of us know about ?

 

[sasquatch]

People looking at air rifles like " bb " guns, has been whats allowed this sport to grow the way it has. Just wait until that changes, and it will. The guberment will step in and change things big time, and not for the better. Be careful what you wish for.

Not at all.

Airguns have taken African Buffalo. Big rib bones. A real behemoth of an animal.

What has allowed the sport to grow is improved technology and more importantly hunters that are completely aware of the capabilities of their equipment And skills.

Like any other hunters... You will still find inexperienced or those that overestimate their equipment and capabilities. Watching someone on YouTube doesn't equate to learned experience and skills for example. Don't do this at home

 

[ghoststalker]

So you don't think once its widely known how powerful air rifles have become, they will start to change the laws more towards PB. God forbid one is used in a murder or something, but I think we will, see " limits' and regulations come about, once its more known how much more powerful, and now fully automatic ones are being released. But will see.
I can easily see them not allowing them to be used in town ( back yard friendly) not allowing moderators to name the 2 most obvious reasons.

 

[d3vnull]

Guess I get to state what I have noticed a lot of people, even on AGN, consider unethical, but is never the less a fact.

In TX the rule for deer hunting with an air rifle is basically 35 cal and 215 fpe. That is more than an arrows fpe, but an arrow makes a bigger wound channel. My PB friend and I avoid the subject I will state in a minute, because he thinks anything less than 1000 foot pound of energy is unethical.

Large game with an air rifle or bow, be it coyote, deer, , elk, moose, feral pigs, etc. is for the animal to die from lack of blood. It is why you often follow blood trails. People don't like thinking about that, but it is what it is.

If it makes you squeamish, or you think it is unethical, then don't hunt. But it doesn't change the fact.

 

[_CTAIRGUNNER_]

So you don't think once its widely known how powerful air rifles have become, they will start to change the laws more towards PB. God forbid one is used in a murder or something, but I think we will, see " limits' and regulations come about, once its more known how much more powerful, and now fully automatic ones are being released. But will see.
I can easily see them not allowing them to be used in town ( back yard friendly) not allowing moderators to name the 2 most obvious reasons.

No. No I don't. Topics been beat to death, don't need to discuss it more. Doesn't have anything to do with tge topic at hand either.

 

[sasquatch]

So you don't think once its widely known how powerful air rifles have become, they will start to change the laws more towards PB. God forbid one is used in a murder or something, but I think we will, see " limits' and regulations come about, once its more known how much more powerful, and now fully automatic ones are being released. But will see.
I can easily see them not allowing them to be used in town ( back yard friendly) not allowing moderators to name the 2 most obvious reasons.

The sky is falling

Completely off topic and going unhinged

 

[ghoststalker]

The sky is falling

Completely off topic and going unhinged

Yes ma’am I am off topic, apologies for that. Hopefully you have a hard hat on.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Yes ma’am I am off topic, apologies for that. Hopefully you have a hard hat on.

Must be tough to live in a constant state of paranoia and fear,........a 300 bucks .22 lr semiauto exceedes many .357 Airguns in power, can literally carry 1000s of rounds on you, smaller lighter then airguns.

Airguns would be one of the worse choices for criminals given what is out there.

 

[Pale_Rider]

Must be tough to live in a constant state of paranoia and fear,........a 300 bucks .22 lr semiauto exceedes many .357 Airguns in power, can literally carry 1000s of rounds on you, smaller lighter then airguns.

Airguns would be one of the worse choices for criminals given what is out there.

If you look at airguns like an island. Black powder guns are like a sand bar protecting us from the giant anti gun waves. A felon could literally order a 300 fpe revolver to his door for $250. Those black powder guns been available to felons a while but you don’t hear many crimes being committed with them. Felons don’t want to fiddle with extra ancillary equipment they like the easy way. They’re criminals remember; choosing to get easy money rather than work hard for it.

 

[Recarga]

I’m no experience hunter but I’ve had my share of self experience hunting since 1998 pretty much 2 or 3 deer a year that’s just deer hogs probably 4 or 5 a year.
That’s about a little more than 100 animals.

I’ve used rifle and compound and recurves and longbow.

In my experience I’ve seen good placed shots that some can be explained due to last second movement of the animal and some others cannot be explained. These shots were placed right in the boiler room with bullets at passed 1,500 fp-lb at 200 yards or broadheads with a cutting diameter of 1.50 to 2.5 “

These animals some were recovered within 24 hrs and were used for consumption but some were found passed 24 hrs or days later with a completely failed bullet or broad head

So to me even if I have a adequate enough air rifle won’t take the risk of a heart or lungs shot. Head shot is some what in debate.

For me I will keep my power burner or broad head for big game

Hogs medium size head shot yes definitely

 

[JimD]

I own both PBs and airguns but currently only hunt with the airguns. Only reason is I find it to be more fun. But I might pull a 22lr out for squirrel hunting one of these days.

If I had to explain big bore hunting of larger animals to a PB user I would just admit it does not compare to small bore PBs. 22 to 338 or 35 caliber guns. They product a lot more velocity and fpe. Their projectiles expand to make wide holes that go deep into the target. No airgun does this. Less than 5000 psi is just not 50,000 to 60,000 psi.

But airguns are fairly comparable to black powder guns and pistols which are used by some PB hunters. They all send relatively large diameter projectiles at relatively low velocity. By avoiding expanding they can penetrate quite deeply and their larger diameter projectiles do not have to expand to make a big enough wound channel. I have a 45 caliber flintlock and I had to use round balls, 180 grain, with it in PA during flintlock season. I think they were going faster than is practical for an airgun but an airgun could shoot a 300 grain projectile and get deeper penetration. These sort of weapon introduce a bit of a handicap in not really being suitable for long range shots. But within 100 yards or so they have been used for decades very successfully.

In short I don't think you can convince a knowledgable PB guy an airgun is equivalent to his 30-06. Because it is not. But the bigger ones are roughly equivalent to his flintlock or slug gun or 44 magnum.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

I’m no experience hunter but I’ve had my share of self experience hunting since 1998 pretty much 2 or 3 deer a year that’s just deer hogs probably 4 or 5 a year.
That’s about a little more than 100 animals.

I’ve used rifle and compound and recurves and longbow.

In my experience I’ve seen good placed shots that some can be explained due to last second movement of the animal and some others cannot be explained. These shots were placed right in the boiler room with bullets at passed 1,500 fp-lb at 200 yards or broadheads with a cutting diameter of 1.50 to 2.5 “

These animals some were recovered within 24 hrs and were used for consumption but some were found passed 24 hrs or days later with a completely failed bullet or broad head

So to me even if I have a adequate enough air rifle won’t take the risk of a heart or lungs shot. Head shot is some what in debate.

For me I will keep my power burner or broad head for big game

Hogs medium size head shot yes definitely

Well, I took probably 100 hogs with air rifles, some real big ones and most used calibers where .25 .30 and .357 pretty much all brain shots and all recovered in less then 24 seconds

 

[sasquatch]

Yes ma’am I am off topic, apologies for that. Hopefully you have a hard hat on.

Yeah and you don't have much more than hyperbole to back up some of your ideas.

We know airguns require energy. Air. And just because some crook stole a high powered airgun and perhaps used it during a crime doesn't equate to airguns being regulated as firearms. It also doesn't mean that proponents of high powered airguns ruined the sport. What a stretch of logic.

What you have presented here is hysteria that is based upon your own poorly presented ideas.

I can run someone over with a car, shoot a person with a black powder muzzloader, clobber someone with a crowbar. None are regulated as weapons , and specifically as firearms.

Your line of thought seems to be along the lines that because the industry creates and markets high powered airguns they are in turn destroying the industry.

I mean if you want to be more tin foil hat wearing go for it. But face it, airguns will continue to develop in power and efficiency. You can be perturbed about it for whatever reason but you have not made any conclusive or convincing arguments that high powered airguns ruined airgunning as a sport.

I think you have a very shallow mindset and instead of me needing a hard hat you might consider removing the tin foil hat

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Yeah and you don't have much more than hyperbole to back up some of your ideas.

We know airguns require energy. Air. And just because some crook stole a high powered airgun and perhaps used it during a crime doesn't equate to airguns being regulated as firearms. It also doesn't mean that proponents of high powered airguns ruined the sport. What a stretch of logic.

What you have presented here is hysteria that is based upon your own poorly presented ideas.

I can run someone over with a car, shoot a person with a black powder muzzloader, clobber someone with a crowbar. None are regulated as weapons , and specifically as firearms.

Your line of thought seems to be along the lines that because the industry creates and markets high powered airguns they are in turn destroying the industry.

I mean if you want to be more tin foil hat wearing go for it. But face it, airguns will continue to develop in power and efficiency. You can be perturbed about it for whatever reason but you have not made any conclusive or convincing arguments that high powered airguns ruined airgunning as a sport.

I think you have a very shallow mindset and instead of me needing a hard hat you might consider removing the tin foil hat

BINGO !!!!

 

[JimD]

The only reason I see for a criminal to be attracted to a big bore air rifle is they can buy one legally. It requires either a lot of effort or additional expense to get air in the thing and then you only get a few shots. Definitely not the weapon of choice for a gun fight. It seems like criminals don't really care to do things legally which might eliminate the only reason they might want an airgun.

I don't think it is unethical to hunt with a gun that can only take your quarry cleanly with a head shot. I think the problem is some of us might say we won't take a body shot and then do it anyway wounding an animal they may not find. That would be unethical. Like blazing away at game so far away you have no reasonable chance of hitting it let alone killing it cleanly. Staying within your limits as a shooter and within the sensible limits of your weapon is required for ethical hunting. People who fail to do it risk providing ammunition to the anti-hunting crowd.

 

[ghoststalker]

Yeah and you don't have much more than hyperbole to back up some of your ideas.

We know airguns require energy. Air. And just because some crook stole a high powered airgun and perhaps used it during a crime doesn't equate to airguns being regulated as firearms. It also doesn't mean that proponents of high powered airguns ruined the sport. What a stretch of logic.

What you have presented here is hysteria that is based upon your own poorly presented ideas.

I can run someone over with a car, shoot a person with a black powder muzzloader, clobber someone with a crowbar. None are regulated as weapons , and specifically as firearms.

Your line of thought seems to be along the lines that because the industry creates and markets high powered airguns they are in turn destroying the industry.

I mean if you want to be more tin foil hat wearing go for it. But face it, airguns will continue to develop in power and efficiency. You can be perturbed about it for whatever reason but you have not made any conclusive or convincing arguments that high powered airguns ruined airgunning as a sport.

I think you have a very shallow mindset and instead of me needing a hard hat you might consider removing the tin foil hat

Wow, your bent. I didn't mean to rattle your cage. Carry on as you wish. No hat needed on my side. All this from a guy that believes in big foot, go figure.

 

[sasquatch]

Wow, your bent. I didn't mean to rattle your cage. Carry on as you wish. No hat needed on my side. All this from a guy that believes in big foot, go figure.

Thanks for the compliments.

 

[thumper]

As a lifelong powder burner guy AND an airgun guy, I have to say that airguns are pretty marginal at best, and more often unethical for larger game in the hands of most people.

I've killed deer with longbows, flintlocks and round balls, slug guns, Ford Falcons and centerfire powder burners and I can tell you for damn sure that I don't see hunting one with a .30 caliber air rifle as ethical.