Why is it so hard to explain to powder guys hunting with air can be done on larger game?!

[Solo1]

Most people in their 50-70 age group were brought up with an 30-06 and believe this is what you need. I have a friend that can barely shoot his 06 any more cause he uses a 200 + gr hunk of lead his gun has a steel buttplate and at his age just kills his shoulder but even though he almost blew a deer in half ( shot at 50 yds) he still totes it around?

 

[Ezana4CE]

I don’t think one has to do much explaining. Don’t be a clown or irresponsible and walk the talk. Say it then do it. If they’re still arguing after that then the stage is set for some good comedy.

I’ve been laughed at by a few folks, but only for a time. Showed them some evidence and those folks stopped laughing - at least in my face. Seeing me do it doesn’t mean it’s for them, just proves that it can be done. And if they witness it happen, then there’s more of an opportunity to present evidence (in action) that it can be done responsibly.

 

[SMH]

I’ll send you my Taurus and you can take him out on a hunt!

 

[thumper]

You only hear the people bragging about the times it worked well.

The times it doesn't work are the ones you don't hear about, conveniently enough,

 

[MOhunter]

One of the things that got me started in air gunning is a buddy said I couldn't kill a coyote with an airgun. Happened to be when they were giving out all that COVID money. guess where that went? haha. So I got my coyote with a Gamo Swarm .22 magnum. You should have him look at an AEA Zeus in 72 caliber. That might change his mind. Other than that, most peeps are right. He may be too set in his ways. But then watta I know? I'm 56 also. Bwwaaahaaahaaaha

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

As a lifelong powder burner guy AND an airgun guy, I have to say that airguns are pretty marginal at best, and more often unethical for larger game in the hands of most people.

I've killed deer with longbows, flintlocks and round balls, slug guns, Ford Falcons and centerfire powder burners and I can tell you for damn sure that I don't see hunting one with a .30 caliber air rifle as ethical.

If the hunter does his job, gets close, is patient, is willing to pass the non perfect shot and most of all does his research and testing a .30 cal PCP or even a .25 is a fantastic tool for killing a boatload of deer with the well placed brain shot.

 

[RadioFlyer]

Excellent observation Manny! Your not normal & that my friend is a good thing! The mark of a leader!

 

[thumper]

If the hunter does his job, gets close, is patient, is willing to pass the non perfect shot and most of all does his research and testing a .30 cal PCP or even a .25 is a fantastic tool for killing a boatload of deer with the well placed brain shot.

....and if my aunt would have had nuts, she woulda been my uncle.

A deer's brain isn't big. The slightest movement and you've missed and left a nasty wound.

You're a bowhunter, you should know how quick they can move right before the shot.

Considering the amount of "hunters" every year that lose deer with scopes and high powered rifles, at under 200 yards in the terrain here, I don't see it happening reliably.

Can it work? Sure.

Is it a good idea? No, not really.

Especially if you're talking about new hunters wanting to go out with their air rifle to kill a deer to say they did.

 

[thumper]

Again, when it does work there will be a post here telling all about the great hunt and how awesome the gun is and congratulations will abound.

When it doesn't work, and the deer runs away never to be found until it starves to death from a jaw injury, we won't hear so much as a peep.

It's the way this works.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Again, when it does work there will be a post here telling all about the great hunt and how awesome the gun is and congratulations will abound.

When it doesn't work, and the deer runs away never to be found until it starves to death from a jaw injury, we won't hear so much as a peep.

It's the way this works.

Well you see and hear of botched shot with every weapon, high powered centerfires, compound bows ( don't even get me started there )

A close quarter shot with a precise airgun done right by a patient hunter is an extremely effective shot,....of course there's idiots out there but more likely you have more of them giving it a shot with a High power centerfire or a compound since it's supposed to be a given than with an airgun, airgun hunters seem to be more concious of their limitation especially those that chose to use the close quarter brain shot.

Bennhunting with my homemade primitive bows for decades as well as HILL bows and I treat airgun hunting like bowhunting, get close and be patient,.......Airgun hunting is more efficient.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Well you see and hear of botched shot with every weapon, high powered centerfires, compound bows ( don't even get me started there )

A close quarter shot with a precise airgun done right by a patient hunter is an extremely effective shot,....of course there's idiots out there but more likely you have more of them giving it a shot with a High power centerfire or a compound since it's supposed to be a given than with an airgun, airgun hunters seem to be more concious of their limitation especially those that chose to use the close quarter brain shot.

Bennhunting with my homemade primitive bows for decades as well as HILL bows and I treat airgun hunting like bowhunting, get close and be patient,.......Airgun hunting is more efficient.

This is what I mean by patient, responsable airgunner that knows the limitations of his equipment

10 minutes of waiting before the perfect shot presented itself

 

[thumper]

Well you see and hear of botched shot with every weapon, high powered centerfires, compound bows ( don't even get me started there )

A close quarter shot with a precise airgun done right by a patient hunter is an extremely effective shot,....of course there's idiots out there but more likely you have more of them giving it a shot with a High power centerfire or a compound since it's supposed to be a given than with an airgun, airgun hunters seem to be more concious of their limitation especially those that chose to use the close quarter brain shot.

Bennhunting with my homemade primitive bows for decades as well as HILL bows and I treat airgun hunting like bowhunting, get close and be patient,.......Airgun hunting is more efficient.

I don't disagree that it works in the hands of people that "get it". Unfortunately, let's be honest, most don't. Particularly the newcomers and the people that do it simply to say they killed something big with an airgun.

You've been in the traditional archery world long enough to see this same thing with the compound and crossgun guys.

The tool will work for the job. I don't dispute that.

But the people using it and how is the part I will always question. Things can go bad MUCH faster and easier with a botched headshot from an airgun, than they can with a vitals shot with a "real gun".

.45 or .50 cal and up in airguns, with shots to the vitals, different ballgame entirely IMO and a much safer bet all around.

And everyone knows you can't kill deer with a Hill style longbow.....

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

I don't disagree that it works in the hands of people that "get it". Unfortunately, let's be honest, most don't. Particularly the newcomers and the people that do it simply to say they killed something big with an airgun.

You've been in the traditional archery world long enough to see this same thing with the compound and crossgun guys.

The tool will work for the job. I don't dispute that.

But the people using it and how is the part I will always question. Things can go bad MUCH faster and easier with a botched headshot from an airgun, than they can with a vitals shot with a "real gun".

.45 or .50 cal and up in airguns, with shots to the vitals, different ballgame entirely IMO and a much safer bet all around.

And everyone knows you can't kill deer with a Hill style longbow.....

View attachment 333873

Yeah those Hill or primitive bows are good for nothing

Absolutely a powerful .45 or .50 airgun is a fantastic tool but like Centerfires then people try stretch the limits in distance and that gets you into truble too,

A gut shot is probably the worse outcome for an animal, a small caliber pellet if misses the brain most likely will just bounces off the skull and does minimal surface damage.....more damage to the ego of the hunter

Either way a bad shot is a bad shot regardless the tool used.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Two reasons I transitioned from bows to airguns for hunting ;

1st because of the thick elefant grass here even with a perfect arrow in the Heart/Lungs if a hog runs in there most likely you will not find it even by searching in a grid pattern.

2nd several time I got in the 10 yards range but could not take the shot because of trees and saplings in the way, with airguns I can thread the needle and place that pellet in the spot.

I have several centerfires but I don't use them for hunting, my first airguns where a Career Ultra .357 and a Sam Yang .45 but once I got a Rainstorm I .22 and realised the potential and I started using powerful small bore airguns with the precise brain shot with extreme efficiency.

 

[luckybuckeye]

Most firearm hunters only hunt deer. Deer are easy to kill if the hunter does his job. My guess is the firearm guys fell victim to the colossal marketing machine of the firearms industry. Magazines, hunting tv shows, and YouTube influencers. A lot of hunters think they know everything too. Others have the “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” mentality.

The original buffalo rifle back in the day was the 45/70 Sharpes rifle pushing a 405 grain bullet to about 1200 fps and 1295 fpe at the muzzle. This rifle was enough gun to kill any bison at extreme distances. Heavy bullets at modest velocities will completely penetrate a deer from any angle.

One way to change some folks minds would be for states to allow airgun deer hunting during archery season. In some states the rut is always in archery season. Everyone knows the best time to kill a trophy buck is during the rut.

 

[Vetmx]

Most firearm hunters only hunt deer. Deer are easy to kill if the hunter does his job. My guess is the firearm guys fell victim to the colossal marketing machine of the firearms industry. Magazines, hunting tv shows, and YouTube influencers. A lot of hunters think they know everything too. Others have the “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” mentality.

The original buffalo rifle back in the day was the 45/70 Sharpes rifle pushing a 405 grain bullet to about 1200 fps and 1295 fpe at the muzzle. This rifle was enough gun to kill any bison at extreme distances. Heavy bullets at modest velocities will completely penetrate a deer from any angle.

One way to change some folks minds would be for states to allow airgun deer hunting during archery season. In some states the rut is always in archery season. Everyone knows the best time to kill a trophy buck is during the rut.

Allowing airguns in archery season would just be openly admitting how inferior they are to firearms. Not to mention pissing a bunch of archers off. But it might improve relations between archers and crossbow guys. Suddenly the crossbow wouldn’t be the lazy guy weapon anymore.

 

[stoutblock]

Just because you can does not mean you should. Given the option, always use the right tool for the job.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

My favorite i get here a lot.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Just because you can does not mean you should. Given the option, always use the right tool for the job.

And the right tool for the job would be........ ?

 

[Scotay42]

Nobody said anything about DEFENDING anything. As a matter of fact when it comes to bear , I am the biggest proponent for self defense is best done without a gun and done with spray.... Ask me how I know, Ive been face to face with a second year black bear, I wouldn't even wanna think about pissing of a grizzly bear with a gun.

Pesting is not defending, its preventing, being out and doing preventative maintenance is not defending live stock... for that I 100% agree, Id likely not use an airgun unless it's all I had.

Well, a brown bear giggles at bear spray. In brown bear country you better have a 44mag. Black bears I have runoff with nothing more than a loud voice. Brown bears are a different beast. Your buddy is just used to the U.S. way of overkill hunting. Air power brings more skill into the game but increases chance of failure. If you are confident in your equipment, it is all you need. He is just not confident in his ability with those rifles.