Why Hate Leupold ?

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There is no doubt that Leupold scopes are quality made, and live up to their reputation as a top-level scope. I've owned more than I can remember during my powder burning days, and I would put one on an airgun. However, they have a drawback or two, as alluded to in a couple of the posts.

The minimum focus is about 30 yards, and on the high-powered ones, perhaps 45 yards. That is okay for a powder burner, but not for a backyard airgun.

And there is the Pareto principal too. In case you've forgotten, that is the 80-20 rule we all should be aware of. There are a whole lot of scope out there, which sell for 10% to 15% for what you pay for an average Leupold. They're easily 80% of the value. What you end up with for paying 10 times as much, is that extra 20% for some special feature you perceive you need, but most likely do not when we're talking strictly about airguns.

Then how about the Zeiss V8 scopes? They beg the question... Does a $2,800+ scope fulfill some special nitch a $1,000 Leupold or $150 UTG can't? Not for my money when it is mounted on an airgun with a max (clean) killing range of under 150 yards!
 
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For me , it a matter of quality glass , repeatable tracking , holding zero , and no questions warranty . It's really hard to top Leupold , Do I hate that most of the scopes I want have to be made at the Custom shop...Yep ! But at least they have it as an option .. . A Nissan Sentra will do 80% of everything a Mercedes C Class will do . Whether it's worth the price difference is a question each shooter has to ask himself . Part of the fun/torture of scope shopping is the tons of options .
Hunting camps over the last decades are filled with Leupold scope stories just like mine... .I Had a problem with my scope , returned a beat up work horse of a scope to Leupold , Leupold returned a new in the box scope just matter of fact. Happens every single day . If that's part of the " Leupold Tax" then it's a small fee to pay for me :)
 
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I think a lot of it depends on what you are using the scope for with this 80/20 rule as it's being applied here.

If I'm looking to shoot something small and fast moving (like a squirrel) that jumps around trees that camouflage it and perhaps in low light (like in a forest), then the clarity you get from good glass allows you to do something that you literally can't do with cheaper glass. It's not just a case of it being 80% as good. Some of my cheapo scope are 100% useless in that environment. 

I can see better at 4x through scopes with quality glass than I can at 10x on some lower quality ones in certain conditions. 

If I shooting static plain white targets at 30 yards in good lighting, the 80/20 rule definitely applies, at least for me. 

The whole conversation becomes null with many Leupold scopes if you want to plink in your garden at close range. You lose all of the benefits of quality glass if you can't focus the thing. 

To be honest, I don't think I would be happy with any scope that inhibited my ability to shoot a certain distances. Even if it was for a powder burner, I still want the option of taking a shot at close range of one becomes available. 

If Leupold took their efr rimfire scope, gave a side focus wheel, a milt dot option as standard and increased the power settings without raising the cost too much, then that would be an awesome air gun scope for hunting. I can't think of any other brand that makes anything lighter.
 
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Poor cluttered and vision blocking reticles kills the deal on a lot of what might be otherwise good scopes. It is no accident that lots of retailers show no example of the reticle when displaying a scope for sale. They suck. And no close focusing kills off another large percentage. There really are a limited number of scopes out there with both a great reticle AND close focusing. And most of the ones that do .... are heavy. Hawke dominates the air gunner market with their reticles and close focusing. Not the greatest glass and not light. But they do what air gunners need most of all.

Just for fun I was looking at some truly world beater high high dollar scopes last night. Try 45 ounces.
 
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Interesting topic especially for me since I have used a Hawke SW 6-24, a Sightron S Tac 3-16X 42 MOA & the S Tac 4-20X 50 MOA , a Vortex 4x12 AO on my HW80 and never liked shooting it and was never happy the way it grouped. Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago, and I played with a Leupold 4x12 EFR AO. Fell in love with everything about it other that if would not focus closer than 18m even at lowest magnification.
Shipped it back and last Friday I received its smaller sibling the 3x9. I have had a couple of days to mount it and play with it on the HW80, All I can say is the clarity is better than anything I have listed. Eye relief is non straining at all mags. Most important to me is that I love shooting the HW80, I have shot better (by far) groups with it that any of the others. I don't know that I can explain why but it really does not matter to me. This one I am keeping.
An odd observation that someone might explain, and that is my best groups were all shot at 3x. & 6x. 9x was better than I have done before with the others but at the lower magnifications at 10 yards they were all one hole groups and not one flyer period since I have mounted this scope.
This one is a keeper for me.
 
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I'm a Leupold fan.. Have them on all my PBers. I have none on an air rifle though. I'm not willing to go the custom shop route ($) to have mil dot reticles to serve my loopy airgun trajectory. 

Checked my .25 Wildcat at various yardages yesterday. The rifle is zeroed at 20 yards. I wanted to see what to do if the squirrel is at 30 or 40. Yikes! I'm about 1.5 inches high at 30 and still more than an inch at 40. My MTC Viper Connect has no "dots" above the center. So, I either need to holdover or relight the rifle to zero at 30 and then mil-dot for shots 10-20.

I've always been a rimfire (.22 and .17) squirrel hunter. Very rarely, over 50 years of hunting them have I shot past 50 yards, mostly 30ish. This air rifle trajectory business is a challenge.
 
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You would think a company like Leupold would see a market niche Like Hawke has exploited and jump on it. They remind me of Crossman. Probably companies run by old codgers oblivious to the market. All Leupold has to do is put a decent etched reticle on scopes already in their manufacturing chain and change the focus ability. They'd sell lots of em. I'm sure Joe is not the only one pestering their custom shop to get what he needs. Do the company higher ups even talk to the guys in the custom shop. Probably not.
 
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"Nueces"You would think a company like Leupold would see a market niche Like Hawke has exploited and jump on it. They remind me of Crossman. Probably companies run by old codgers oblivious to the market. All Leupold has to do is put a decent etched reticle on scopes already in their manufacturing chain and change the focus ability. They'd sell lots of em. I'm sure Joe is not the only one pestering their custom shop to get what he needs. Do the company higher ups even talk to the guys in the custom shop. Probably not.
Click to expand...
Maybe we can start a petition - I am serious...

Let's get a thread going - Letter to Leupold- 
Decide on our "optimum specs" and see if we can get some attention?

 
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"jmdesignz2"
"Nueces"You would think a company like Leupold would see a market niche Like Hawke has exploited and jump on it. They remind me of Crossman. Probably companies run by old codgers oblivious to the market. All Leupold has to do is put a decent etched reticle on scopes already in their manufacturing chain and change the focus ability. They'd sell lots of em. I'm sure Joe is not the only one pestering their custom shop to get what he needs. Do the company higher ups even talk to the guys in the custom shop. Probably not.
Click to expand...
Maybe we can start a petition - I am serious...

Let's get a thread going - Letter to Leupold- 
Decide on our "optimum specs" and see if we can get some attention?


Click to expand...
As some of you guys may know, I am a big fan Leupold. I have a pretty big collection of airguns (yeah, I'm addicted), with most having Hawke & UTG scopes on them.... but the one scope that blows them all away is my Leupold, VX2 3-9X33, EFR with CDS (custom dial system) and Wind-Plex reticle, model 120617. This little guy will focus down to 10yards, it's super light weight with incredible glass. The others don't even come close.

I live 10 minutes away from the Leupold facility in Beaverton, OR ... and more than willing to hand deliver a letter that outlines the wants & needs from our Air Gun Community. I have a good connection over there and, I am pretty certain that they would like to hear from us!

If interested, send me a PM.

--Carl 'Oregun'
 
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"Oregun"
"jmdesignz2"
"Nueces"You would think a company like Leupold would see a market niche Like Hawke has exploited and jump on it. They remind me of Crossman. Probably companies run by old codgers oblivious to the market. All Leupold has to do is put a decent etched reticle on scopes already in their manufacturing chain and change the focus ability. They'd sell lots of em. I'm sure Joe is not the only one pestering their custom shop to get what he needs. Do the company higher ups even talk to the guys in the custom shop. Probably not.
Click to expand...
Maybe we can start a petition - I am serious...

Let's get a thread going - Letter to Leupold- 
Decide on our "optimum specs" and see if we can get some attention?


Click to expand...
As some of you guys may know, I am a big fan Leupold. I have a pretty big collection of airguns (yeah, I'm addicted), with most having Hawke & UTG scopes on them.... but the one scope that blows them all away is my Leupold, VX2 3-9X33, EFR with CDS (custom dial system) and Wind-Plex reticle, model 120617. This little guy will focus down to 10yards, it's super light weight with incredible glass. The others don't even come close.

I live 10 minutes away from the Leupold facility in Beaverton, OR ... and more than willing to hand deliver a letter that outlines the wants & needs from our Air Gun Community. I have a good connection over there and, I am pretty certain that they would like to hear from us!

If interested, send me a PM.

--Carl 'Oregun'
Click to expand...
Hey Carl - that is awesome!
Please see my new topic post - let's get people on it and see if we can get this going :)
 
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Well instead of just one dream scope it would be far more realistic to create specific scope series for airguns.

Maybe two series, SFP and FFP.

I think they could copy Athlon Argos and Talos product line with one simple change: Better turrets and awesome glass. (Leupold prolly makes these very good by default).

The only criticism Athlon Argos line has received is about turrets being loopy.

I have not read enough about PA scopes to say anything about their weak spots.

In fact with Athlon and other manufacturers glass, features, warranty and price the market is getting slim.

No facts behind this but I see airgunners spending between 50 to 500 for glass in general.
 
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"Slayerious"Leupold does not offer mil dot reticles as default? Sounds really weird to me since it has its uses everywhere.


..You know what? I do hate them!
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They do, just not on their cheaper scopes or the efr ones that we want here. You have to pay extra to get them put on in their custom shop and the mil dot option costs more than their other reticles.

It's not that odd really because they are mainly made for powder burners which don't have the steep trajectories we have to deal with on air guns. If you shoot ammo at 3000 fps+ at 100 yards, you don't need a holdover reticle.

They use holdover reticles for their long range precision scopes which are designed for 1000 yard shooting. Some brands make those scopes focus down to 10 yards so we can still use them but most leupold long range models only focus down to about 7 miles which makes shopping for them for air guns a frustrating experience.

I have tried to buy a Leupold 4 times and given up each time. 
 
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