Who Hunts Varmints With .50 cal Rounds?

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Ezana4CE

Ezana4CE

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Jan 15, 2021
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Texas, United States
I was reading the product description for the Seneca Dragon Claw on Pyramid Air’s site and came across this. I’d like to know, who in the hell hunts coyotes and varmints with a .50 caliber round? 🧐 How much of a varmint’s carcass is left intact after a kill shot? I’ve seen video of bison or water buffalo taken with a .50 caliber round, but a possum? And I think if you shoot a woodchuck with a .50 cal something is seriously wrong.
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Animals die quicker, that's why. Nothing wrong with that. That dragon claw has only a fraction of the energy of a real firearm. If you can use a wider dia projectile to accomplish the task quicker why not? 

Plus , look at it this way- If a person was to shoot it with a bow, with a 2" broadhead (over a field point), you would consider it ethical, correct? So, why is a 50cal over a 25 for a coyote any different to you?
 
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Interesting responses. 


@mtnghost The question I’m asking myself is “why?” Why have people historically used large rounds to hunt? Is it because large calibers, in this case a .50 caliber round, were widely available? I could see during a time when muskets were the common weapon to hunt with. Once rifles came into play I’d think that smaller calibers would be the go-to options because of improved accuracy and the assumed cost per shot. Seems like it would make sense economically. Although I am unsure of the historic cost of lead. I could be wrong here. And I agree, it might not be ideal. 

@davidsng I wasn’t thinking about it from an ethical standpoint. It really just seems excessive to me. Unless one has a large parcel of land, using such a loud rifle seems counter productive for pesting small vermin. When watching hunters pest farms I can’t see this being a viable option. It would likely stress livestock (if present) and disturb the farmer or workers. Seems like if one had a problematic pig, coyote, or fox that had been eluding a property owner, farmer, or hunter or one that had taken a shot or two but continued to pose a threat or nuisance it makes sense then. For multiple animals I’d think it was counterproductive. On smaller animals I also thought a body shot would destroy some good meat. The woodchuck thing sounds nuts to me. I actually had to look one of those up to see it. Seems equivalent to hunting squirrels with a large caliber. I think it’s laughable as I would a person using a broad head on a woodchuck. Would a .177 or .22 not be logical choice? I thought perhaps the advertisers used a cookie cutter approach to marketing the product. We obviously all have different ways of thinking. 

@ScottEnglish Kinda what I was thinking. Seems like unnecessary overkill. Expensive way to dispatch small animals. Some people round these parts still eat possums and raccoons. Seems like a large caliber projectile would ruin the meat, but using a round that large indicates the shooter isn’t concerned about that unless it’s the only functioning weapon or the only available caliber at the time. Also the amount of air necessary to push that round makes for a loud shot. If there’s a pest problem, how many other animals would stick around after the first shot? This is a rifle I haven’t seen a moderator for. I’m not sure I follow the “pesting with big bores really helps to improve your shooting skills” statement. How so? Even still, isn’t that an expensive way to practice?
 
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Why put a 800 HP engine in a car or truck, "Because you can", I Shoot 50 Cal roundballs from my slingshot, is that too powerful?...... as to 50 cal, it's not a 50 BMG, air gun only gets 230-600 FPE depending on the gun, Black powder 50's have been used for several centuries for varmints and they develop a bit more FPE than an air gun, most of the 50 cal Air guns are being used for larger prey than what you think they're being used for, most people use .25- 357 for coyotes and smaller Varmints, 50 cal ammo is to expensive to waste on small Varmints these days and it doesn't do as much damage as you would think since it is only traveling at speeds under 900 fps, what the manufacturer is stating is what the gun can be used for to get ethical kills, the guns are adjustable power for the type of Prey you are hunting so I don't see any problem as long as it is a ethical kill, caliber has nothing to do with the size of the animal, beside the list of varmints are mostly not edible animals to most people..... Just my opinion of the Manufacturers explanation. 👌
 
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One other thing to keep in mind. If you go back 20+ years in air guns, the only big bore hunting rifles were the Korean Rifles. They looked pretty much the same as the dragon claw without the addition of the broad heads, and they used them to shoot whatever kind of Varmint they wanted to kill.

And this is the old US of A, where bigger is better and faster is better. 

I would prefer a 30 caliber for woodchucks. It sounds big, but it’s not nearly as fast as a 222.

mike
 
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230 fpe, ft-lb, ft/lb, or how ever this forum chooses to communicate KE, is minimum. Hardly a competitor for a center fire of just about any variety. It is just barely legal in my state for game or fur bearing animals. Yes fur bearing. Skunks, beaver, nutria, musk rat and a host of other small to very small varmints fall into the category. Must be hunted with at least 30 caliber @ 800 fps or a minimum combination to create 215 FPE. I didn't make the rule and don't think it was thought out very well in some areas, but there it is.

A 50 cal air rifle is not a 50BMG, and never will be. Have fun thinking it may be though.
 
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@LostInTejas Ballistics isn’t my wheelhouse. I’m glad that I asked now that you brought it up. My initial thought was the size of a .50 slug or roundball striking one of these small animals in proportion to their size, especially after seeing people put these animals down with pellets half that diameter. So naturally I’m looking at the difference in cost. After reading your post I can see a person putting down a coyote with one of these Senecas. I think I’d have to have lost a calf or two and missed with other rifles before going after a coyote with one of these. Still seems to be a bit much, but I hadn’t considered the kinetic energy/foot-pound aspect. I do recall reading about the requirement on the Texas Parks & Wildlife site in regards to hunting with air rifles. Aside from the woodchuck I think I can see how the velocity of the round could affect the damage done to the animal due to expansion and other factors I’m probably not aware of. But using .50 caliber round on a little woodchuck is hilarious to me. Makes me think of Tackleberry from the movie “Police Academy.” The type of guy who’d shoot house mice with a .45 (I know they aren’t comparable, but it’s what comes to mind). After some of y’all chimed in I did a brief YouTube search for someone shooting small animals with a Dragon Claw. Haven’t found anything yet. 
 
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@LostInTejas Ballistics isn’t my wheelhouse. I’m glad that I asked now that you brought it up. My initial thought was the size of a .50 slug or roundball striking one of these small animals in proportion to their size, especially after seeing people put these animals down with pellets half that diameter. After reading your post I can see a person putting down a coyote with one of these Senecas. I think I’d have to have lost a calf or two and missed with other rifles before going after a coyote with one of these. Still seems to be a bit much, but I hadn’t considered the kinetic energy/foot-pound aspect. I do recall reading about the requirement on the Texas Parks & Wildlife site in regards to hunting with air rifles. Aside from the woodchuck I think I can see how the velocity of the round could affect the damage done to the animal due to expansion and other factors I’m probably not aware of. But using .50 caliber round on a little woodchuck is hilarious to me. Makes me think of Tackleberry from the movie “Police Academy.” The type of guy who’d shoot house mice with a .45 (I know they aren’t comparable, but it’s what comes to mind). After some of y’all chimed in I did a brief YouTube search for someone shooting small animals with a Dragon Claw. Haven’t found anything yet.
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Heh, maybe spend a little time looking at varmiting videos of folks shooting .223 and 22-250 at varmits. My .22 K-Hornet pushes 40 grains at 2800 fps, which isn't at all fast in the 22 CF world. When it hits a ground hog center of mass it looks like he swallowed two drops of nitroglycerine. A .50 ball at 900 fps would just make a hole through him and bounce off down the field. The hornet doesn't even pass through. Totally different world but, sure I'd take my .40 percussion out after ground hogs all day long. It pushes a 90 grain ball at about 1800 fps (60 grains of pyrodex P). That's about as fast as you can push a pure lead sphere without getting deformation from the air pressure.
 
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@cornpone Just watch a couple guys dispatch doves, foxes, and coyotes. Some of the birds lost body parts. The dogs just seemed to freeze up and drop. Seems to me that the rounds are fragmenting something terrible upon impact. The guy pesting doves and shooting foxes was using 53 grain .223 Remington rounds. Not sure what the coyote hunter used, but he was hitting them in the vertebrae and they just froze. After watching vids and looking at the numbers again, it’s beginning to make more sense to me. The amount of energy that type of air rifle generates isn’t even comparable to what a PB brings but the diameter of the .50 round is substantially larger. I kinda knew that, but I hadn’t really factored that in when I thought about the effects of .50 bullet on a groundhog/woodchuck. The evidence for me is in the animal’s reaction. So point taken. Someone else mentioned the speed of the lead before it starts to deform in the air. Here’s where I go totally stupid on the topic because I don’t know much about that sort of thing. I’ve put down some comparably pesky animals with various types of rounds and calibers. All I really know is what has worked for me in the past. Thank you and everyone else for your input. I’m learning. Thanks for being patient.
 
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@cornpone

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Someone else mentioned the speed of the lead before it starts to deform in the air. Here’s where I go totally stupid on the topic because I don’t know much about that sort of thing. I’ve put down some comparably pesky animals with various types of rounds and calibers. All I really know is what has worked for me in the past. Thank you and everyone else for your input. I’m learning. Thanks for being patient.
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I wouldn't even know that lead could deform when shot over about 1800 fps except the Lyman Black Powder Handbook that I bought a freakin; life time ago has some images of it happening. Seems like it was in that range that pure lead started to flatten out in flight (only a little but observable). That volume is long gone (It had a black cover). I have a second printing now and it does not contain that information (or I just now missed it looking for it). They show loads up to about 2500 fps for the really small calibers like .32. They would have to be hardening that a little to shoot it that fast. Anyway.

Hope that's useful. You've actually got me thinking about dragging out the K-Hornet and the Dixie .40 caplock this spring. Thanks!
 
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I think using a .50 cal is over kill for some of the smaller animals listed. Unless your going for distance then it makes a little more sense to me. The ammo cost is what would make me not use a .50 for pesting. I prefer .22 &.25 myself but everyone is welcome to do what they want as long as its legal and ethical in my eyes. I like shooting for pennies per shot vs possibly a dollar a shot. 
 
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sign-1.1612814489.gif
230 fpe, ft-lb, ft/lb, or how ever this forum chooses to communicate KE, is minimum. Hardly a competitor for a center fire of just about any variety. It is just barely legal in my state for game or fur bearing animals. Yes fur bearing. Skunks, beaver, nutria, musk rat and a host of other small to very small varmints fall into the category. Must be hunted with at least 30 caliber @ 800 fps or a minimum combination to create 215 FPE. I didn't make the rule and don't think it was thought out very well in some areas, but there it is.

A 50 cal air rifle is not a 50BMG, and never will be. Have fun thinking it may be though.
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Wow Texas requires a .30 @800fpe to hunt small fur bearing animals? Wow thats crazy especially since here in California they allow air rifles to be used on small game, turkey and coyotes and they only say it has to be at least a .177 size. To me a .177 would be fine for squirrels and animals of that size but I would think a racoon and coyote needs a bigger size round with that can carry more energy. 

I have friends in idaho and they said you can hunt deer and elk with air rifles and they just say .357 for deer and .45 for elk with a recommended 300fpe. 

I find it interesting that different states have such vastly different requirements. 
 
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