Which manufactures have and haven’t stepped up their game over the years....

[Blackpaw]

Okay I know this is a loaded question!!! However, because of a variety of reasons / conditions etc, the airgunning community seems to be increasing rapidly, especially the USA market. P.s. I am always for continuous improvement.

As we all known increased demand can do a couple of things, both rumors and facts, and I won’t go there. Yet, I do want your’s opinion of which manufactures have or have not stepped up their game since you go into airguns.

For me, the only old time airgun I have is the Beeman R9 TK I bought in 2004 from a friend. My Webley Viper in .22 was my first PCP, but sold it for a 17 HRM which I sold for Glock 19. An example of where I think the quality has gone down over time is with with Remingtons, no way in hepish will I replace my 20 year old 870 with a new one, no thanks for the plastic trigger assembly.

From what I have seen in my return to air guns (based off input here and those I have spoken with) are the same, better or worse than they use to be due to increased demand, along with “new kids on the block” like AirMaks Arms.

Okay, I will not give a real world over time opinion, but I will give my last year opinion. I have owned a Brocock Compatto Sniper XR, FX Impact Compact MKII, Edgun Leshiy 2, and Taipan Veteran Compact. Of the 4, I will put the Edgun as maybe the most polished, the Taipan next then the Brocock and FX at a tie. However, for solid build, Taipan HANDS DOWN. Scope wise, best value Vector Optics Veyron, and worst value Element Optics Helix, the Hawke AirMaks in the middle.

 

[Guest]

I dont think any of them have. If there is some improvement its really minor and quality, design and manufacturing standards are still lightyear away where they should be compared to prices we pay. This is for whole industry in total.. Every company just lacks.. Maybe AAA and some smaller custom companys are up there in some areas. 

 

[cworkman74]

I dont think any of them have. If there is some improvement its really minor and quality, design and manufacturing standards are still lightyear away where they should be compared to prices we pay. This is for whole industry in total.. Every company just lacks.. Maybe AAA and some smaller custom companys are up there in some areas.

This is definitely true. I chalk it up to this being a niche hobby. It's like that specialized piece of software that a company uses. They have 5 total "users" globally, so each user is paying $millions for the license. (i.e., not enough users to spread out the development costs).

As the user base of our hobby goes up, the prices of our equipment "should" go down assuming manufacturing is increased to keep up with demand. There will be more users to spread the R&D and other overhead costs. Of course, there's always the possibility that quality will suffer when that happens, too.

-Clayton

 

[GeneT]

I think EdGun has really upped their game with the Leshiy 2 - that's a unique design, and totally new to the AG world. The SK-19 is also pretty innovative. 

I think I'd give the 'not stepping up' award to AirForce - they make some excellent rifles, but they haven't really advanced the design since they came out (in the 80's?). 

I dont think any of them have. If there is some improvement its really minor and quality, design and manufacturing standards are still lightyear away where they should be compared to prices we pay. This is for whole industry in total.. Every company just lacks.. Maybe AAA and some smaller custom companys are up there in some areas.

This is definitely true. I chalk it up to this being a niche hobby. It's like that specialized piece of software that a company uses. They have 5 total "users" globally, so each user is paying $millions for the license. (i.e., not enough users to spread out the development costs).

As the user base of our hobby goes up, the prices of our equipment "should" go down assuming manufacturing is increased to keep up with demand. There will be more users to spread the R&D and other overhead costs. Of course, there's always the possibility that quality will suffer when that happens, too.

-Clayton

I suspect that we'll never get to the point of substantial cost reductions. We're definitely a niche hobby, and other market forces (e.g. availability of powder burner ammo) drive sales, but in surges rather than the steady volume that manufacturers want to see before investing in capacity.

GsT

 

[Blackpaw]

@genet I wasn’t focusing on cost reduction. I guess I should say, better or worse quality now verse the past. I have “heard” FX’s quality isn’t as it use to be, in the Quality Control...not build quality = aka more mistakes get through than in the past.

 

[TeOh1776]

@genet I wasn’t focusing on cost reduction. I guess I should say, better or worse quality now verse the past. I have “heard” FX’s quality isn’t as it use to be, in the Quality Control...not build quality = aka more mistakes get through than in the past.

I have seen this time and time the last 6 months, I don’t have any issues with the 2 FX guns I bought this last year but I am sure this has a lot to do with growing pains in Sweden. I’m not sure how much expansion other companies have done but I watch these guys social media and from the dealers I’ve become friends with and talk to also from what I’ve noticed on the forums I’m sure they must have doubled in size or attempting to do so. I have noticed their CS and parts department must be increasing cause parts do seem to be coming faster (I wasn’t really around 3 years ago but I have seen people commenting they used to only send parts out on like wednesdays, I think that’s what I saw odoyle write). I do remember 2 years ago roughly it took longer to get help from a tech via email or even on the phone but now I’m getting replies that day (on email). And phone service in the afternoon I haven’t had to wait the last couple times I’ve had to call for help. 

But for instance I know when the warehouse company I run when the plant doubled in size we had a lot of QC issues from them trying to train the plant workers and increase our production exponentially. I am not trying to excuse it or anything but if they actually have doubled their manufacturing I assume we will see the QC get better and better as the new guys become more experienced. 


I do find it wild some of the airguns designs not changing much like the Texas for instance I don’t own one but I have seen them in person and it does look like an old school design. But maybe that’s partly to keep nostalgia? Idk. I’m surprised their guns are standing strong against the Leishy designs, Daystate and FX. What a crazy market/consumer base. That .45-50 cal Airgun though I want one so bad. I did shoot what I think was a Winchester umarex collaboration .45 that was so amazing but another sort of old school design. It did have a magazine though. 

 

[CoyoteGod]

I think EdGun has really upped their game with the Leshiy 2 - that's a unique design, and totally new to the AG world. The SK-19 is also pretty innovative. 

I think I'd give the 'not stepping up' award to AirForce - they make some excellent rifles, but they haven't really advanced the design since they came out (in the 80's?). 

I dont think any of them have. If there is some improvement its really minor and quality, design and manufacturing standards are still lightyear away where they should be compared to prices we pay. This is for whole industry in total.. Every company just lacks.. Maybe AAA and some smaller custom companys are up there in some areas.

This is definitely true. I chalk it up to this being a niche hobby. It's like that specialized piece of software that a company uses. They have 5 total "users" globally, so each user is paying $millions for the license. (i.e., not enough users to spread out the development costs).

As the user base of our hobby goes up, the prices of our equipment "should" go down assuming manufacturing is increased to keep up with demand. There will be more users to spread the R&D and other overhead costs. Of course, there's always the possibility that quality will suffer when that happens, too.

-Clayton

I suspect that we'll never get to the point of substantial cost reductions. We're definitely a niche hobby, and other market forces (e.g. availability of powder burner ammo) drive sales, but in surges rather than the steady volume that manufacturers want to see before investing in capacity.

GsT

I would agree that Airforce needs to do some design upgrades and at the very least get to a magazine fed multi-shot Talon or Condor. But man, I have owned a Talon SS .22 for 18 years. I have done nothing but fill and shoot. It's a tac driver at 40 yards and I have never once had to "fix" anything. I know for sure I will have no such luck with my Impact or Cricket and eventually at end of summer with the Leshiy 2. Airforce just shoots and shoot and shoots. 

 

[Blackpaw]

Well, I guess we can look at also quality control and quality assurance of the product. Maybe Air Force has very good quality assurance and control (QA and QC). Why innovate if you are still selling the product? Eventually not innovating will catch up with you.

Yes, for the prices we pay there are lots of quality issues in general and some manufactures are worse than others, and models. Some of the companies do try to stay active with their customers, I don’t mean you calling them, I mean the company watching the forums. FX I am told has great “if you contact them” customer service. For active customer support, the only one I can think of is Ed of Edgun. To me, I do prefer the company itself actively reaching out to customers when there seems to more than one off issues, even then I have seen Ed get involved to help the customer solve the issue.

Also, the one thing though I think is not excusable is when we do dump $2000 on a gun and it turns out the company is aware there is more than one off defect in the design, is like oh well it will be fixed in the update. From what I have seen older FX .177 barrels have lots of lemons. FX knew there was this issue, but their only fix was telling the customer to spend another $400.00 for a new barrel. At the very least offer the customer a steep discount on a new barrel or something. Yes, I know effects the bottom line, but in the end builds customer loyalty and your reputation which are you more money in the long run.

 

[Beezer]

I have shot a CZ 75B pistol since 1994, and have never done a thing to it except install a heavier recoil spring to handle my +P handloads. Never any issues. If anything, shoots better than when new. I have owned 4 CZ rifles, one of them used, and they are all sub MOA with my handloads, even after barrel heating, and 100+ rounds through them with no cleaning. They tend to get more accurate with age, and run smoother, and foul less, and increase in velocity.

I can't say that about any airgun I ever owned.

If you want a better air rifle at a decent price, you might consider trying to get CZ to build air rifles. They DO build barrels for some air rifles, but just the barrels. Their game is building lots of decent quality firearms where high volume keeps production costs per unit at an affordable level. They would have no interest in reducing quality to the level that they can compete with "bottom feeders". The top end market probably doesn't have enough sales to interest them either. They do volume sales to government agencies worldwide. And firearms are not their major source of income. They are large in bearings, gears, and aircraft gear reduction drive units. In other words, steady income where quality is appreciated and demanded.

 

[Guest]

 I can track a downward trend in service and an upward trend in prices across the board for most US companies, they like to use events like pandemics to test consumers to see how far they'll bend over

 

[elh0102]

Well, I think the answer depends on how you define "their game". For instance, FX has definitely made huge strides in their game, but it's not my game. I like simple, robust, dependable. Makers like RAW, Taipan, and Weihrauch come to mind. It's highly subjective. I'm a sports car fan, and recently bought one of the last naturally aspirated flat 6 Porsche Cayman S cars, no options except xenon lights. It's a car few gadget seekers would want. Guess I'm just old and set in my ways.