Where Is Our Hobby Headed?

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It's interesting that you guys keep calling this a hobby.

Of course, I know that's what it is for many, but I was attracted to airgunning partly because it's becoming more of a sporting affair.

The more that it becomes more like the fishing, archery, and other outdoor sports, the more people will be interested. A bigger user base means more/ more affordable options. It means innovation and proliferation. 

I personally see the trajectory of airgunning as primarily positive.
 
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So the fear of government intervention should stop technological advancements? That’s funny right there and I couldn’t disagree more. Damn that is the beauty of living in the United States 🇺🇸. I definitely don’t live in a bubble or in fear. Maybe some would be better off in Canada or Europe? You don’t need to worry about it there. Anyway I’m out as I know how taboo politics and PB are here. 
 
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I fear no one., but I will say be ever so vigilent. If you think I'm funny or full of sh . Just study into Canadas law and howthey were encted for the people. I'm dead serious ,go on the candian airgun forum . It don't cost you anything. Point beingthey are located just around the bend so to speak. You can see first hand how busy is "too busy" for politions.
 
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My hobby? To my backyard deck for some plinking and target shooting. Or, to my permissions to shoot actual pests... Collectively? Power, power and more power. Or, lower power, lighter, shorter PCPs for shooters who recognize the low profile qualities of sub 30/20/10 FPE airguns shooting pellets. Buy what you like and use it responsibly is the only requirement. The hobby looks very good at the moment...
 
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I didn't mean to offend anyone with my opinions. Casitas has this right IMO. Perhaps I should have communicated as well as he did in a shorter manner. I consider all of you valuable members of the community. I really believe what I said but I probably come off as a hard liner regarding constitution and rights. I am. However this is not a political forum and this is not the first time that I have been sucked into politics on this forum. The fact is 90 percent of the time I enjoy lower powered airguns but I also love big bores. The fact is that I don't want to tell people in our own community that they are bringing us down by buying rifles with too much power. Like I said I value you all. Whatever kind of gun you prefer. I would like to and will do anything in my power to support you if you hunt, target shoot or just like to play with anything you want as long as you are safe which I will assume unless proven otherwise. Honestly no hard feelings. No anger on this side. I was simply trying to share my opinions on what works best for preserving rights at least in America. I wish you all well. 


 
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You can still innovate and develop airgun technology without going to supersonic or heavier projectiles that approach firearm performance. In fact it probably takes more skill and creativity to improve on small calibers and small air supplies.

Or you can buy some huckster's "innovation" that's really just marketing and decoration, super high FPE and FPS, etc. and make them rich until the politicians come along and treat all airguns the same, as weapons, lumping 177s and 22s in with the 35 and 50 calibers. Just consider that many people see it as greed, not progress.
 
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My two cents worth, is that this is such an expensive hobby that it deters way too many people from joining. I talk with so many people that show a serious interest first off, and then it comes down to the basic equipment needed and the cost, and the interest ends. :mad:

ThomasT
 
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ThomasT said:
My two cents worth, is that this is such an expensive hobby that it deters way too many people from joining. I talk with so many people that show a serious interest first off, and then it comes down to the basic equipment needed and the cost, and the interest ends. :mad:

ThomasT
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I really hope so! Too many people will ruin EVERYTHING!
 
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L.Leon said:
@qball, Airguns are already classified as firearms in many states. In NYS if using for target shooting or plinking where allowed? An airgun. If used for hunting and pesting, a firearm. That horse left the barn long ago...
@ThomasT, the hobby is only too expensive for some if they go the PCP route.
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Guess it started in NY but hope it won’t get here in CA soon or worse becomes a national standard. Someone post a thread about asking the CA congress to allow big game hunting with airguns…..seriously? 😡
 
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It's funny how Bourbon Whiskey or Whiskey in general is going through the same uptick in popularity over the last 5 years especially but mainly since 2010. It used to be "what dad drank", but now it's all swag with boutique whiskey joints trying to replicate an old speak easy. It defiantly hasn't hurt the Whiskey industry at all. In fact the new start ups, different mash bills and different areas that have tried to make good Whiskey has pushed the experience for us to a much better place, other than driving up the cost of a dram.

However I agree with many of you, I do not see airguns fairing so positively unfortunately. Granted this opinion comes from a Californian, but airguns are very close to regulation and being labeled as a firearm as many have said. What makes them so great in some ways will eventually be irrelevant. FX is so excited to be so close to the 22LR. Or the big bores getting more and more powerful. Full auto .30 caliber airguns that fire off 17 rounds in 2 seconds with 100 FPE, yes very cool stuff, but all those things are making the "airgun" a firearm in general eventually for all states. Once popularity rises, much like bourbon and airguns can't be ignored by policy makers anymore they will unfortunately be regulated in power and who can own one nationwide. Even more so then now, and it will be classified as a "firearm" with the same restrictive laws. If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, must be a cat.
 
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qball said:
Guess it started in NY but hope it won’t get here in CA soon or worse becomes a national standard. Someone post a thread about asking the CA congress to allow big game hunting with airguns…..seriously? 😡
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I read a congressman's airgun law draft a few years back, which had the data attached and justification for labeling them a firearm. Once you are shooting 150 pound deer successfully the state will regulate. Agreed, be careful what you asked for...
 
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Gerry52 said:
Again, I agree with you Ed (elh0102). Also, don't forget that our "God given rights" were not "GOD GIVEN", they were "politician given" at a time when the peak of technology allowed one shot a minute with useable accuracy of 150 yards. Don't think they ever saw 800-1000 rounds per minute @ 800 yards being in the hands of the common man (or hand grenades, bazookas, 50 cal. Sniper rifles, etc).
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Very well said.
 
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This discussion brings up significant gaps and conflicts in law that will likely need to be addressed by changes in the law or, more likely, test cases.
Should airguns be treated like firearms?
If so, it seems that the localities that ban possession of an airgun outright (such as some places around Chicago, if I am correct) are in direct violation of the 2nd amendment, even with established precedent. However, that means they would also be subject to firearm restrictions like NFA-regulated accessories, barrel length, automatic firing, etc. This could become even more restrictive in areas with "assault weapon" definitions like adjustable stock and hand grip. This could even affect taxes and availability of ammunition if more restrictive laws are passed.

If airguns are not firearms, we don't have the burden of laws just mentioned, but we cede a very powerful political ally in the firearms community supporting rights of ownership and use. (Not that I have ever been able to get an organizations attention on airgun matters.)

And then there is the discussion of federal vs. state rights as it applies to arms.

Thinking about this stuff too much makes my head hurt...
 
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The air gun industry/market is growing rapidly. The amount of people in the local shop trying out airguns has doubled easily in the last 6 months. The customers all seem to have different reasons for trying it. None of them have mentioned ammo shortage or cost.
For most, myself included I had no idea they were so dang accurate and that was the hook for me. Some people had no idea how much power they could deliver. It seems the new folks, once again, myself included, trend to the more powerful performance oriented guns.
I was and am concerned when I see full auto air guns. Sure they are neat and probably a ton of fun if you can afford the ammo. However, when I saw a video of a guy shooting a cinder block in two at 50 yards with a full auto 30 my mind went to the question of how far is too far? At what point do the government dogooders decide enough is enough and regulate?
Then there is is question of ethics in hunting. I am not dictating morals here but I do have my concerns with people shooting animals at ranges over 100 yards with air guns. The amount of kinetic energy left with an air driven projectile at those ranges is minimal. Sure people kill small game regularly at long ranges with air guns and boy do those videos sell guns. But what we all need to understand and explain to newcomers is that those long range kill shots are highlight reels. The people who produce those slick veiled advertisements will never show you all the misses at 150, 200 and on and on. They may show a few and they most certainly will never show you the amount of hits that DID NOT result in a clean kill. This is not supposition or suspicion or throwing shade. I have been involved in a couple hunting videos from a very popular series. The final production is heavily edited and arranged to show the best possible light on the subject. Mishaps, close calls, bad dog work etc are left out. Unsportsman like behavior is removed etc. what you get is a well polished presentation with a goal of generating money for sponsors and the producers of the videos. Nothing wrong with all of that because who would watch it if it weren’t a clean presentation. My concern is newcomers may and most probably come away with an unrealistic view of what air guns are actually capable of.
I have been shooting guns for many decades and ground squirrels and prairie dogs are at the top of my favorite small game. I can tell you that once you get past a certain distance the bad hits become a larger and larger percentage of your results. Due to lower energy levels most air guns produce that percentage increases exponentially as your target gets further and further away.
When I first started archery hunting in the 70’s there were so few compound bows that they were not a consideration. Ethics were the standard by which we judged ourselves. No long shots, no quartering shots at big game, no shots at moving game etc. With the advent of the compound things started to change. Higher velocities, better arrows and broad heads and more forgiving bows made longer shots easier. It did not make the prey and dumber though, just the hunters. Now I routinely see videos of elk being shot at 70+ yards. Can the new archery equipment deliver the goods? Absolutely it can. But the animals are just as alert, the wind still drifts the shot and small branches and other obstacles still exist and feeding animals still take a step the instant you release your arrow.The chance for one of the myriad of variables to ruin a shot remain exactly the same as they were 50 years ago.
Commercialization and the glamorizing of long shots by omitting the hazards of such has changed those who hunt to the point where the concern for the quarry has all but vanished and has been replaced with the glory of bragging rights and ability to promote the latest gizmo that allows us to forego ethical hunting practices.
I am not bemoaning innovation or technology. I own two Mavericks and my bow is the latest and greatest Matthews Bows has to offer a big game hunter. I would never eschew a better product. But we all need to understand the limitations of short range weapons and our individual ability to use it to make humane kills with our chosen equipment. You want to shoot pop cans or other inanimate targets at 200+ yards go for it there is no penalty for a less than perfect shot.
 
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@Chukar60, long, but well said. The long range hunting with airguns, while done successfully by a very talented few is not the norm. The majority get into airgun hunting or pesting for the "close range" opportunities. As for the full auto 30 caliber PCPs and their potential criminal misuse? Firearms with exponentially more FPE are cheaper for the criminally minded to attain. So that argument doesn't work.
 
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L.Leon said:
@Chukar60, long, but well said. The long range hunting with airguns, while done successfully by a very talented few is not the norm. The majority get into airgun hunting or pesting for the "close range" opportunities. As for the full auto 30 caliber PCPs and their potential criminal misuse? Firearms with exponentially more FPE are cheaper for the criminally minded to attain. So that argument doesn't work.
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I want to agree with you but you can get a .30 cal semi auto quiet power airgun that blows through 1 inch plywood for 600 bucks things change, hence the conversation of where this is headed. We all enjoy low power airguns and occasionally high power long range shooting for me. The problem is we see clear difference between the 2 but not the typical law makers react to news headlines. It is only matter of time someone commit serious crime with these powerful airguns that shipped to peoples doors with silencers. IMHO it's matter if when not if.

The good old saying is never under estimate the destructive power of a lot of stupid people together.
 
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