Where do I start?

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Ok, so I'm pretty new here on AN and new to the PCP airguns. Here's my quick take... I did a decent amount of research before purchasing my first PCP air rifle. So, with a lot of input and youtube vid's I purchased a Daystate Wolverine 2 Hi Lite .22cal.. It has a nice wood stock and has been slightly redesigned for 2016. When I opened the box and saw the stock, (I had only seen it in you tube vids) I personally didn't care for it. I was looking for a smaller sleeker stock. The Daystate rifle I ordered I would think would be right up a traditional rifle shooters alley. It just wasn't for me. What I will say is just before I returned it to AOA I shot about 10 shots thru it at approx 45 yds. Every pellet was touching each other! Honestly! I also looked at the FX Royal. Now I did hear that the .25 cal would be slightly better at 100yds verses the .22cal.
If you like traditional style wooden stocks and money is no object then I'd say the Daystate Wolverine 2 Hi Lite in the .25 cal or the FX Royal in the .25 cal would be great guns.
So the very last thing I'd say is this....I have purchased 2 what I would call high end springer air guns over the years that cost me over $700 each. If I had the $ and money was no object I'd get a PCP airgun in a heartbeat vs the single shot springer. That's just me! The PCP's are sooo much smother when they fire, and without that twang of a springer.
The guys at AOA are usually very knowledgeable and helpful when inquiring what type of airgun for your application!

Rob
 
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OKAY.

I have been doing a bit of research. I have more or less eliminated the PCP technology as an option, not because I don't think it usable, but I really don't want to fool with air bottles etc. and the investment in support equipment takes $$$$ from my addiction to powder burners. :) I have also eliminated "springers" because of all the bad press regarding relative accuracy. Keep in mind; I am only looking for trigger time in the backyard out to a max of 75 to 100 yards. I want to practice breathing, follow through and general position discipline for when I compete with my powder burners.. I'm not interested in hunting or becoming a national airgun champion..

I have found 2 rifles that are of interest and I would like to hear from the group about pro's and cons and also other suggestions for piston driven rifles.

Rifle #1 is the Umarex Octane Elite in .22 caliber.

Rifle #2 is the Hatsan 125 QE Sniper Vortex.

Thanks in advance for your feedback. I look forward to hearing from you.
 
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Both rifles you listed for shooting aspects ARE springers, perhaps more violent than a traditional spring ( faster slap ).
You will still need to learn to hold a "springer: to get to to group well, such as that.

How about a BQ78/79. Outstanding triggers, no "special" technique needed to group - you'll not be shooting 75 yards but then you wouldn't with either of the two you mentioned either, not that it couldn't be done- $100 out the door at stores. 

Get to a local shoot or with a local airgunner. Have you checked the member map & put yourself there?

John
 
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John is quite right. Both have the same characteristics of springers even though technically gas rams. The ShotShox system does dampen the effects of the double recoil, but look up the reviews on YouTube before buying.

​I'm a firm believer in PCP, and would always recommend PCP above any springer / Gas Ram. I've got both and I really suck at shooting a springer / break barrel. (Fish story coming) I can hit flies at 75 yards with the PCP, largely because of the zero recoil.

​If you are intent on skipping the tanks and such, the simplest combo for PCP is something like a Maximus and Hill Pump. Maximus is Crosman, so use the code AGNATION and get 25% off on the Crossman site, plus usually free shipping on Friday. That brings the priced down to about $165.

​The pump is around $200, and with a 2000 PSI fill, pumping isn't that bad. If you want just practice breathing and trigger time, 25 to 50 yards can accomplish that. The Maximus Euro version in .177 gets something like 60 shots per fill, meaning less pumping.

​One thing about all lower end guns is the trigger. Can't speak to the Umerex, again watch the reviews.

He states that the Octane will test your patience. At 20 yards, 1 inch type groups and will really open up at 50 and 75 yards.

​The Hatsan (this review is in .25 Cal) gets good marks as well.

The Hatsan trigger gets good reviews, so that might be the deciding factor. A trigger that's mush won't help you at all!

 
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I was going to say the same thing Spysir. I had the Hatsan 125. I think the one I got was a lemon because I had read good things about them and researched them for about 2 months before I bought it. So I returned it and got a Benjamin discovery. Which was a good little gun just a little under powered for what I was wanting. wasn't hard to pump up. Only 2000 PSI. 
 
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Hi, I'm looking to buy my first air rifle. I will use the gun to shoot squirrles from a sandbag rest.
Due to advancing years I find that I must have two things. The rifle must come out of the box with a decent trigger and a scope. I borrowed a spring gun from a younger friend that had an awful trigger. I was unable to hold on my target because of the heavy trigger pull with much creep. Also, with open sights, I simply could not view both the target and the front bead at the same time. A scope is a must.
Cost must also be considered. I am sure there are many fine well designed guns out there that command a premium price but my budget is some what limited.
Comments and recomendations will be greatly appreciated by this newby.
 
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I'm gonna chime in my 2 cents but first, I have to say as I read your thread that the advice changed based on your narrowed down specifics as to what you want to achieve.

I too, 2nd most of what everyone else is telling you, however, you have very limited options when I read your last post. Let me ask you, what are you exactly wanting to do with this Airgun. Punch paper or bust squirrels and starlings off the back porch...or am I missing something?

If you don't want to spend the money or time to get full bore into the PCP world, your best bet is go watch AEAC's YouTube channel and pick out the best break barrel you can afford. Something that gives you the accuracy and pellet that best suits that accuracy... as well as other videos and info in these threads on that specific gun.

Other than that my friend, you're gonna have to drop a minimum of

$400-450 on a good used scba fill rig, bottle w decent life left and fill assembly
$550 to 2500 on a PCP that best suits your needs 
$150 to 700 for a scope that best suits your needs plus accessories like scope rings, level 

other accessories like bipod rail and bipod, rest or bags, pellets, lube, Ballistol, case, mags, LDC otherwise known as a moderator plus adapters.

By my best guess, you'll have as much as $2500 into a PCP setup but no less than $1400-1750 for a good solid gun and the above.

Good luck dude. It took me researching these forms for almost a year before I settled on exactly what I wanted then bought. I am very happy with my .22 Colibri, but that gun might not be everyone's cup of tea. I also have a .25 Wildcat and you can't go wrong with that gun for those distances you mentioned consistently, however there are many other guns already discussed in this thread are just as if not more than capable of the same things. Bottom line, you need a budget and work from there...
 
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Jacklegs- 
for a highly accurate 100 yard gun, I think you are correct on most figures.

For a highly accurate 50 to 75 yard gun, you can cut costs quite a bit. As you state in the first paragraph, it's all in what you want to do with it. Good old Marauder comes into play here. The Gen 2's are accurate, up to 75 yards in my experience so far. Currently pushing further, but at 75, excellent and has a good trigger. More expensive guns have better triggers is true, Wouldn't budget any less than about $500 for the gun though. I got into PCP for around a grand or $1200 by the time i was done.

In today's prices:
Marauder in .22 or .25 is $550 and $580 respectively. If you want to save a few bucks, Crosman.com using the AGNATION code and ordering on Friday = about $440 and $470 respectively. Free shipping on Friday.

Pyramyd Air has the 90 Cubic Inch bottle that gives about a dozen refills for $350

Amazon carries the Crosman Premier Domes in .22 for anywhere from $6 to $9 per tin of 500. You can get those on the Crosman site as well.

Probably has a scope laying around if an old powder burner shooter. Will need new rings no matter what at under $20 unless wants No Limits or similar

Needs a paintball or scuba shop nearby or a compressor. Compressors go from $350 to whatever you want to pay.

So, in round numbers:
Marauder (if you go that way) $450
Tank $350
Scope (OK, new scope) $150 including rings
Pellets to get started $ 20

You can start shooting for a bit under a $1000. Gotta agree though, PCP's are an expensive game to start.

Of course, the next thing he'll want is a new gun (always gotta have one of those). It's getting so you can build your collection with quantity with guns like the Maximus, or high quality with things like the Crown and RAW's and everything in between. Even with the Marauder, I'm so spoiled with PCP's I don't really want to shoot powder burners any more. In the PCP world, the lack of recoil, lower disposable costs, and everything else mean I can shoot, shoot, shoot, and shoot some more without killing my shoulder, breaking the bank or wasting time cleaning after each shooting session.

Oh, did we mention you don't clean airguns all that often? Means more time shooting.
 
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If you are an experienced shooter and looking to find
a pellet gun to use for maintaining skills. Your options
are limited. PCP is so incredibly easy to shoot aiming
and trigger control would be the only benefits. 
Most brand name spring guns are not designed for
your intended purpose. As a trainer they are far from
ideal.
You need a precision instrument that
will out shoot you. A quality trigger and the ability to
feed back any and all of your influence .
A 10 mm springer is the platform designed to do
just that. No need to buy new, used ones are readily
available, reasonably priced and in my opinion your
only real option for a serious p gun trainer.
.
 
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Fuznut, I couldn't agree more. I don't shoot high power, but do shoot rimfire indoors with a bunch of guys in the winter. This is my trainer, a 300S that I bought new in 1984 and have put tens of thousands of rounds through since then with only minimal service. It is the springer that comes closest to the handling of a firearm in my opinion, and in particular handles like a match rifle because it IS a match rifle. As you say, they are still readily available used, although mine is not for sale! A plus for the 300S is that a scope is easily mounted in place of the rear aperture sight as on mine.

​The target was shot today at 25 yards from a sitting position with sticks to see which pellet would work best outdoors, CPLs or JSB Express. As expected, the JSBs won out. I suppose you could push the distance further than that, but I don't see the point if you are training for position shooting.

Chuck

24f65d4b3997d5f1f6311d069cf264ee.jpg
 
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Michigander,

That's a beautiful rifle you have!

I agree that the FWB would make an ideal trainer. It is perhaps the most accurate rifle you can get without the added investment in HPA gear (compressor, tanks, regs, etc.). For the $'s invested, if you can find a good example of the FWB300, you'll probably have the closest to PCP accuracy.

Best,
Matt
 
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OK, your coming from, I want more trigger time and less ammo costs. Can air guns do that for me.You have to understand the nature of the beast here.Airguns are best tuned to be subsonic. Yes most good air guns can be pushed supersonic. But will go subsonic before 50 yards and will lose all control. That means you can't zero a scope. Dial it back down to subsonic and it will all make a lot more sense.But being subsonic means wind is way more meaningful. Ok next question is springer or pcp? And you have to decide how available air is to you. Or how much you want to invest in air.? Were talking 4000psi air not a shop air compressor. Pcp gun shoots more like a powerburner. Springers shoot like nothing else.But if you learn to shoot a springer you will be a better shot with your powerburner. Still is is gonna be frustrating.. .
 
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100yrds is a lot to ask for. I think that's why everyone's chiming in with high end gun answers. I think the most important question is if you're only going to be shooting off a bench rest. If so, you might be best with a pcp. But ideally, think more 75yds. It's more realistic for most any $400-$1500 airgun. If you lower your yardage just a little, it opens up a whole lot of great guns into the equation. If you're thinking about shooting offhand, don't rule out springers. If you want to learn to shoot really well unsupported, they're a perfect tool and so much fun to shoot. And as a whole, so much more affordable and simpler. Save the extra money and use it to buy a large assortment of pellets to experiment with. Out of the 30+ airguns I own and shoot, some budget some not, almost everyone has a certain pellet it shoots very well. But for your original inquiry between the octane vs the 125 sniper, my octane shoots way tighter groups than my hatsan with just about every pellet.
 
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I bought a Gamo Hunter back about 2006. It wouldn't hit the side of a barn consistently. I sent it back to Gamo to get it fixed. They cleaned and oiled it and sent me back a paper with 5 holes touching. I thought "wow, they fixed it". So I take it to the back yard and set up at 10 yards just to sight the scope in. That turned out to be impossible. The shots walked everywhere and I couldn't get it sighted in to save myself. I went back in and called tech support for Gamo. I find that the 5 touching pellets were not done at 20 yards, but rather at 10 FEET!. I can't believe they called that an accuracy test.

I set that gun aside and bought a Marauder. I've been down the dark hole of PCP addiction ever since.
Hats off to anyone that shoots a springer well.

Crusher
 
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TJV
I have recently got myself a Marauder. I love it so far. I got it with the pump as a kit, and had a scope laying around already. If you have/had any crosman 13xx/22xx guns then you will love the Mrod. Really the only difference is the PCP part. well more or less sort of. I can tell im going to have fun working on this.

Gamo has the Urban that is less exspensive and there is the new QB Cheif and also the Diana Storm rider. There is also the crosman maxximus. All of these come in in the same price range as the newer generation of Piston powered springers and can be filled with a hand pump.
I think if you go with C02 versions of the above guns you will eventually spend more on the co2 so why not get a hand pump and PCP
 
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