Whats wrong the HW's and AA's...??

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TiredRooster

TiredRooster

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Nov 1, 2018
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Alabama, United States
I have really been wanting to ask this question here for a little while now. It's an honest question out of pure curiosity. Why are the Weihrauch's and Air Arm's PCPs not very popular here? Both make fine springers and are very high quality and immensely popular. But their PCP's are rarely ever discussed by anyone. Why is that? Brococks seem to be fairly popular, but not AA's who also seems to make what appear to be fine PCP's. Both made in the UK........whats the deal?
 
in short , price versus ability. can't speak to the Weihrachs , but from what i remember , they had limited adjustment to increase power. air arms made very nice guns but were expensive , and frankly performed at or weaker than much of the competition. i looked at their s 510 xtc i think , but it was not holding highest power in it's class , nor higher shot count. and it's price was at the top. plus they felt the need to fix a non removeable moderator to it. for 1500 bucks , i want flexability and choices. there is much to choose from.
 
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When I once inquired about the best .177 PCP in 12fpe, the most recommend gun was the HW100 followed by the BSA Ultra SE.
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Interesting. From what I have noticed, mainly from watching a lot of UK air gun YouTube channels, the HW's and AA's appear to be very popular over there, particularly the AA. Of course they are restricted to sub 12 FPE guns in the UK.
 
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in short , price versus ability. can't speak to the Weihrachs , but from what i remember , they had limited adjustment to increase power. air arms made very nice guns but were expensive , and frankly performed at or weaker than much of the competition. i looked at their s 510 xtc i think , but it was not holding highest power in it's class , nor higher shot count. and it's price was at the top. plus they felt the need to fix a non removeable moderator to it. for 1500 bucks , i want flexability and choices. there is much to choose from.
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Ok. That definitely is understandable and makes sense. Almost as if they just were not designed to compete very well in our US market.
 
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I have 3 .177 HW's in the safe right now: HW100, HW110, HW44. Great guns in .177, especially if you like 12fpe. When I get to shoot they are usually what I grab - refined, accurate and simple. Nothing flashy, just great shooting. JSB in 4.52 and you can't miss. Even my trusted .177 Wildcat has been displaced, I never thought that would happen....

I haven't had an AA in years... I would try one again if it had a reg in it. Shot strings on my prior un reg'd AA's weren't great.
 
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The HW100 was developed for European markets and released over 10 years ago, before the US market was anything like it is now. Over there it's field target, 0.177, 0.20 and 0.22 with power restrictions.

So power is a product of that design philosophy.

Germany has very strict laws regarding high pressure vessels so the heavy steel, relatively small cylinder and therefore lowish shot count can be explained there, although for 12-18fpe they still give plenty.

Apart from that, weihrauchs 11-12 year old pcp design still hangs with anything else on the market today. 

The components are steel and built like a tank. It's modular so should something break or wear out only a small part of the gun need be replaced. The barrels are excellent and completely index-able. The reg and hammer are adjustable. Best mag/clip in the business, copied by several others now. The trigger is as good as they get and the trigger unit can be fully removed from the gun and adjusted, after which it can be replaced and off you go. Safety is also a much 'safer' design than most.

HW110 and HW44 have similar engineering, just with ballistic polymer to offset weight and make manufacturing a bit easier and less expensive.

Some of the reasons they don't get discussed much is that they don't come out with new stuff often at all, so there is typically little hype surrounding them -pretty much everything to discuss has been, on various forums, looong ago :). Being around so long, pretty much any possible issue has either been sorted or has an easy/standard fix. 

Anyway that's my take, on weihrauch at least. I have daystates and FX and my HW100 and HW44 are ever bit as good, and better in some ways. 
 
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they are less popular because the agressive power / pellet speed advertising from some manufacturers.

you can buy some more powerful springers or gas ram guns and also now very powerful cheap pcp rifles.

the typical customer (maybe airgun beginner) is looking for POWER and a cheaper price is also welcome.



do you know why all these really cheap and light pellets are sold ? they are faster! thats counts for many beginners :D
 
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I recently bought in to the .177 pellet for plinking. At 7$ per 500 pellets , that’s some cheap shooting from 30 yards. Also , bought the HW100KT and it is quickly becoming my favorite rifle and believe when I say I’ve got a few. Can be tuned to shoot just about any weight to any velocity in the small caliber and literally makes one hole groups. Just a fantastic rifle with easy adjustments.
 
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Nothing. Esp. the AA's , fit finish performance & reliability. IInternal QC that allows seals/orings to last 10 years. HW's can be a pain to work on and originally needed some massaging (10ish yrs ago, dont know now).

Respected and popular around the world except primarily in the US which is more a statement on the US consumers than the rifles. NOT the latest greatest most promoted. lacks every possible external "tuning" adjustment which the vast majority of US folks will never use more than once (instead of an out of the box optimized rifle they could just shoot) and really dont understand -knobs are adjustments not tunes-.

Really nice thing about most folks desire for an "Influencer" airgun is the used market!



John




 
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they are less popular because the agressive power / pellet speed advertising from some manufacturers.

you can buy some more powerful springers or gas ram guns and also now very powerful cheap pcp rifles.

the typical customer (maybe airgun beginner) is looking for POWER and a cheaper price is also welcome.



do you know why all these really cheap and light pellets are sold ? they are faster! thats counts for many beginners :D
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^^^ this^^^


both hw and AA along with Steyr and many other manufacturers make very accurate, consistent and efficient guns but these not capable of the sort of power that many expect (rightly or wrongly) from a modern gun. Personally I have little interest in guns capable of extreme power, less interest in shooting slugs and zero interest in long range hunting, So for me, a gun that shoots pellet from .177 to .25 from 600 - 920 fps accurately is all I need. 


unless you shoot slugs, power does not improve accuracy but many fall into the marketing trap and buy the most powerful gun their budget allows when in all probability, a cheaper less powerful gun would actually serve their needs better.

Fx impacts are extremely popular on this forum but here in uk, I would guess for every sub 12fpe impact sold there it 100 hw’s and 200 aa’s this is not just because of the higher cost of an impact but in sub 12fpe it can’t do anything better (sometimes not as good) as other sub 12fpe airguns, this is not because it not a good gun but it’s being used for something it was never really designed for.

personally, I would have accuracy over speed every day, it would be nice to have both but shooting pellets this is a difficult thing to achieve.



my advice, is buy something that suits your needs not something the marketing man tells you need.





Bb
 
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In America, we want everything bigger and faster, and with more bells and whistles than Santa's sleigh. Just look at the cars we buy. I suppose precision air rifles as we know them, have evolved from the 10 meter Olympic rifle, which remains the most precise air rifle out there. But, how many Americans want a rifle that shoots an 8 gr pellet under 600 fps? The American market is.....well, uniquely American, and an entrepreneur's dream. Once our interest is tapped in something like high power, ultra adjustable, large caliber PCP rifles, it's a money tree for companies like FX. That's not to say anything is wrong with the market dynamic, it's simply not one that is very consistent with HW or AA in terms of their corporate culture and domestic market demand. As some of us are learning, that little badminton birdie shaped pellet wasn't designed for, nor made of material that is the greatest for the super power now demanded in air rifles. My guess, we will see more growth in slugs and other pellet designs, as well as barrel construction, as the search for power continues. For me, air rifles will remain a 50-60 yard maximum target instrument. I'm just old and boring, and not interested in chasing the foibles that challenge the HP rifles. So companies like HW and AA will have at least one remaining customer across the pond. 
 
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In addition to a RAW .25 LRT and a Daystate Red Wolf HP, I own four AA and one WEIHRAUCH 97 (plus other high quality European springers). While they are powerful and deadly accurate, the RAW and the RW get shot the least. Nothing at 60 yards or less in my vault is any more accurate or better built and finished than are my AA PCP (3) and TX200 (1) rifles. With Donny Sumo moderators on the pcps they are whisper quiet. Three of the AA pcps have had tens of thousands of pellets through them over far more than a decade with not a single repair other than to replace the brass magazine clip a few times, a very minor and inexpensive 5 minute repair. When my teenage granddaughter comes over to shoot, she grabs the AA S410 every time and she has shot them all.


Dependable and beautiful all of the way. Their is no reason to knock the AA Weihrauch products. Those that do simply haven’t owned them.
 
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