Whats the actual benefit of the "FX true ballistics chronograph?"

[SniperX]

I already have an FX pocket chrono, and a ProChrony. They work fine to tell me my muzzle velocity.
The value they provide -> velocity & reg tuning. Power verificaiton for FT and EFT.

Benefit of the FX True Ballistics chrony:
1) Provides actual average BC based on my equipment, pellet, conditions, etc.
2) Provides velocity data for mulitple distances (25,50,75,100, etc) to enable use of the "Multi-BC" function of Strelok and ChairGun Elite.

I'd like to understand better what the actual value of those 2 benefits are.
My thinking -> Currently, my Strelok output doesnt exactly align with my actual POI at "some" distances. Even after using "trajectory validation." Im wondering if that would change much if I was able to input the "multi BC" data from the FX Ballistics chrony?

My current method is to jack with the parameters (scope height, velocity, BC, offset, etc) to get it to align more with reality. Even still, its not good enough for competition alone.
For my FT/EFT setups, I still have to use the manual "drag target" method to collect actual POI for each yard marker. (drag target-> cardboard reference sled on a string).

If I could avoid having to use the manual method, it would be worth $900 to me. I just have a feeling the actual benefit may not be all that big.

If anyone with a FX Ballistics (or Lab Radar for that matter) can weigh in on this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Brian Stafford (TX)

 

[Frank in Fairfield]

ChairGun, when HAWKE was providing it, did all the things you wanted.
I don’t have it anymore and I don’t use any drop data at all for HFT.
When I had it I was shooting 50%.
With it I am shooting closer to 60%
At 78, that is good enough for me.

 

[cmatera]

Posted this in another thread. Don't know if this helps any:

 

[cmatera]

 

[Centercut]

The FX Outdoors True Chronograph is like the Borg. Resistance is Futile. You will be Assimilated.
I resisted because I’ve been using a LabRadar for years. But once you start using the FX, game over.
Here’s a screen shot today, .25 Panthera 600mm with 49.5 grain Altaros slugs. I use the G7 profile, avg BC was a little lower than my normal 0.105 because some of the shots were 50 yards not 100 yards. The G1 equivalent of the below is about 0.201. SD of 1 fps isn’t bad either.
Highly recommended Chronograph. Expensive, but worth it.

 

[BlackICE]

How does the FX differ from Labradar, other than with Labradar to get BC you have to do some math yourself or put numbers into another program?

 

[fiske]

First, I must say I am one of the app developers, so my view might be a bit one-sided. Here's what I do in a shooting session. I'm showing rimfire data because that's what's on my phone. Anroid users do not yet have all the features shown here.

I begin with a shot to see the elevation needed that day for the specific bullet. Bullet types and temperature changes (which are big in winter) can really affect this. For example, in one session, I used two similar bullets (new Lapua Midas+ and old Lapua Midas+).

(from last row) The new bullet needs 25 clicks for 100 meters (109 yards), but the old one needs 33 clicks.

When I shoot, I look at the standard deviation, vertical spread, and mean radius. My favorite bullet is the new Lapua Midas+. It has a vertical spread of about 1 MOA at 100m.

I had to switch to the old Lapua since the new was out of stock. Turns out, there's a big difference (the old one has a 3MOA vertical spread).

You can see this data on a chart too. I've recorded many shot strings with both bullet types. On the chart, the old bullets are in blue, and the new ones are in red. The Y-axis shows the vertical spread in MOA, and the X-axis lists each shot string's number.

Looking at velocity standard deviation downrange could show similar results if you prefer that method.

There are many more ways to analyze your shot strings if you want to.

I hope this helps.

 

[cmatera]

How does the FX differ from Labradar, other than with Labradar to get BC you have to do some math yourself or put numbers into another program?

No external microphone necessary for air gun use and much easier to setup. Since I'm familiar with the FX app having had the original FX pocket chronograph (still do) and the same app is used for the True Ballistic, it was a no-brainer for me. The new Garmin unit is small, has a recharge-able battery and an external display, but I would have to learn a new phone app, and you are required to create a Garmin account. Why you need to create a Garmin account to use the product I do not know, but I don't like it. If I want small, I'll continue to use my original pocket chronograph which does and always has worked great for me. When the True Ballistic went on sale for $899 at Christmas, all my resistance was gone.

 

[cmatera]

First, I must say I am one of the app developers, so my view might be a bit one-sided. Here's what I do in a shooting session. I'm showing rimfire data because that's what's on my phone. Anroid users do not yet have all the features shown here.

I begin with a shot to see the elevation needed that day for the specific bullet. Bullet types and temperature changes (which are big in winter) can really affect this. For example, in one session, I used two similar bullets (new Lapua Midas+ and old Lapua Midas+).

View attachment 422920 View attachment 422921

(from last row) The new bullet needs 25 clicks for 100 meters (109 yards), but the old one needs 33 clicks.

When I shoot, I look at the standard deviation, vertical spread, and mean radius. My favorite bullet is the new Lapua Midas+. It has a vertical spread of about 1 MOA at 100m.

View attachment 422923

I had to switch to the old Lapua since the new was out of stock. Turns out, there's a big difference (the old one has a 3MOA vertical spread).

View attachment 422924

You can see this data on a chart too. I've recorded many shot strings with both bullet types. On the chart, the old bullets are in blue, and the new ones are in red. The Y-axis shows the vertical spread in MOA, and the X-axis lists each shot string's number.

View attachment 422925

Looking at velocity standard deviation downrange could show similar results if you prefer that method.

View attachment 422927

There are many more ways to analyze your shot strings if you want to.

View attachment 422929 View attachment 422930

I hope this helps.

Since you were involved in the app development, it would be nice if the app could send the holdovers to a smartwatch for use in the field, like Strelok can. If you know the powers that be, it would be nice if the base when assembled had a a shallow slot in it to hold my cell phone so I could see the results on it.

 

[BlackICE]

IMO Labradar App is pretty poor. I'm guessing that they hired a consultant to do the app and don't put much resources or effort into it, or they have an inhouse person that isn't well verse on app development. A big plug for the FX unit, but at a price.

 

[fiske]

Since you were involved in the app development, it would be nice if the app could send the holdovers to a smartwatch for use in the field, like Strelok can. If you know the powers that be, it would be nice if the base when assembled had a a shallow slot in it to hold my cell phone so I could see the results on it.

That's a reasonable suggestion. We'll make 'dope cards' feature first and then see if we can do the smartwatch thing like Strelok.

 

[JungleShooter]

IMO Labradar App is pretty poor. I'm guessing that they hired a consultant to do the app and don't put much resources or effort into it, or they have an inhouse person that isn't well verse on app development. A big plug for the FX unit, but at a price.

Well, Labradar was the only gig in radar projectile measuring device town that was accessible to ordinary humans.

Now, after charging a premium for not so premium features, we finally have competition on the scene — so now they've got to up their game — if they want to keeping milking the shooting cow.

Matthias

 

[NAProf]

First, I must say I am one of the app developers, so my view might be a bit one-sided. Here's what I do in a shooting session. I'm showing rimfire data because that's what's on my phone. Anroid users do not yet have all the features shown here.

I begin with a shot to see the elevation needed that day for the specific bullet. Bullet types and temperature changes (which are big in winter) can really affect this. For example, in one session, I used two similar bullets (new Lapua Midas+ and old Lapua Midas+).

View attachment 422920 View attachment 422921

(from last row) The new bullet needs 25 clicks for 100 meters (109 yards), but the old one needs 33 clicks.

When I shoot, I look at the standard deviation, vertical spread, and mean radius. My favorite bullet is the new Lapua Midas+. It has a vertical spread of about 1 MOA at 100m.

View attachment 422923

I had to switch to the old Lapua since the new was out of stock. Turns out, there's a big difference (the old one has a 3MOA vertical spread).

View attachment 422924

You can see this data on a chart too. I've recorded many shot strings with both bullet types. On the chart, the old bullets are in blue, and the new ones are in red. The Y-axis shows the vertical spread in MOA, and the X-axis lists each shot string's number.

View attachment 422925

Looking at velocity standard deviation downrange could show similar results if you prefer that method.

View attachment 422927

There are many more ways to analyze your shot strings if you want to.

View attachment 422929 View attachment 422930

I hope this helps.

Hi fiske!
I have been looking for someone who could answer my questions on the True Ballistics Chronograph and I stumbled across your discussion above. So I hope you can help. Prior to retirement I ran an engineering laboratory that did a lot of data acquisition from a variety of sensor types. We typically were doing A-D conversions so we could use DSP tools to analyize the data.
What is the data acquisition rate of the system in the TB Chrono? I assume it is reading distance and time to calculate the velocity at a specific distance. Does it keep a table of the Time/Distance data? Is there a way to access that data? Can you guys make a quick routine to dump that data in a CSV file?
I appreciate any help you can give me on this. Thanks.
Cheers,
Greg

 

[fiske]

Hi fiske!
I have been looking for someone who could answer my questions on the True Ballistics Chronograph and I stumbled across your discussion above. So I hope you can help. Prior to retirement I ran an engineering laboratory that did a lot of data acquisition from a variety of sensor types. We typically were doing A-D conversions so we could use DSP tools to analyize the data.
What is the data acquisition rate of the system in the TB Chrono? I assume it is reading distance and time to calculate the velocity at a specific distance. Does it keep a table of the Time/Distance data? Is there a way to access that data? Can you guys make a quick routine to dump that data in a CSV file?
I appreciate any help you can give me on this. Thanks.
Cheers,
Greg

Hi!,
We operate the A/D slightly below 1 MHz. Many have asked for the raw data output, but we are unable to provide it. This is because our DSP processes everything in real time, and we lack external memory for storing raw data. The app does contain data, although it's already processed to a significant extent. However, you can export this data to a CSV file.

 

[NAProf]

Hi!,
We operate the A/D slightly below 1 MHz. Many have asked for the raw data output, but we are unable to provide it. This is because our DSP processes everything in real time, and we lack external memory for storing raw data. The app does contain data, although it's already processed to a significant extent. However, you can export this data to a CSV file.

fiske,
Thanks for the reply. It makes sense to do real time DSP when sampling at that rate. I guess the next obvious questions are does the manual explains how to export the available CSV files and just how processed are those files? Thanks for your help.
Cheers,
Greg

 

[fiske]

fiske,
Thanks for the reply. It makes sense to do real time DSP when sampling at that rate. I guess the next obvious questions are does the manual explains how to export the available CSV files and just how processed are those files? Thanks for your help.
Cheers,
Greg

The data mainly needs cleaning. If you examine the spectrogram, you'll notice the data is somewhat messy near the muzzle but there's not much to do downrange.

The export function isn't described in the current manual because it wasn't ready when the manual was written. We'll update the manual after adding a few more features. If you navigate to the app's ballistic section, you'll find the export button at the top right.

 

[drsquall]

@fiske so when it shows your speed at the ranges someone determines and shows your BC is that just extrapolations of programs or actual data at those distances? Because I know to get a real bc for a projectile out of a particular gun you need to shoot at the muzzle and at another distance and put into the formula. Well that's how I do it anyways.

Thanks

 

[drsquall]

I already have an FX pocket chrono, and a ProChrony. They work fine to tell me my muzzle velocity.
The value they provide -> velocity & reg tuning. Power verificaiton for FT and EFT.

Benefit of the FX True Ballistics chrony:
1) Provides actual average BC based on my equipment, pellet, conditions, etc.
2) Provides velocity data for mulitple distances (25,50,75,100, etc) to enable use of the "Multi-BC" function of Strelok and ChairGun Elite.

I'd like to understand better what the actual value of those 2 benefits are.
My thinking -> Currently, my Strelok output doesnt exactly align with my actual POI at "some" distances. Even after using "trajectory validation." Im wondering if that would change much if I was able to input the "multi BC" data from the FX Ballistics chrony?

My current method is to jack with the parameters (scope height, velocity, BC, offset, etc) to get it to align more with reality. Even still, its not good enough for competition alone.
For my FT/EFT setups, I still have to use the manual "drag target" method to collect actual POI for each yard marker. (drag target-> cardboard reference sled on a string).

If I could avoid having to use the manual method, it would be worth $900 to me. I just have a feeling the actual benefit may not be all that big.

If anyone with a FX Ballistics (or Lab Radar for that matter) can weigh in on this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Brian Stafford (TX)

View attachment 420404

You will still need to tweak the app to get it to match up even if you get the real BC. I've had to do it for StrelokPro . ChairGun and even my Kestrel. That's why I am in no hurry to get one.

 

[F6Hawk]

First, I must say I am one of the app developers, so my view might be a bit one-sided. Here's what I do in a shooting session. I'm showing rimfire data because that's what's on my phone. Anroid users do not yet have all the features shown here.

@fiske -

What are some of the differences between the Android and IOS apps? I use a Samsung phone, but have an iPad as well. Curious as to what gains one might have over the other. Thanks!

 

[fiske]

@fiske -

What are some of the differences between the Android and IOS apps? I use a Samsung phone, but have an iPad as well. Curious as to what gains one might have over the other. Thanks!

For example, the Android version lacks the bullet database, session statistics, dope cards, and graphing tool. These features should be added to the Android app in a month or two. I would say that it's best to continue using the Android app to keep all data in one place.