What was the first semi automatic pellet gun?

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Problem with a stick magazine under the rifle is that is where your air tanks and air passages are,....in that case you'll also need to make the transfer port to the side which will present all kinds of different problems and one side of your rifle will be pretty fat too

 

[Pale_Rider]

Good point Manny. Two smaller transfer ports on each side instead of a larger port on one side would even that out but it’d still be a wide rifle. A design with an air tank in the rear would avoid that.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Good point Manny. Two smaller transfer ports on each side instead of a larger port on one side would even that out but it’d still be a wide rifle. A design with an air tank in the rear would avoid that.

Yup, then you would have the space under the breech to have a stick magazine, but......there's so many trade offs with that design that I would rather forget about the stick mag

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

I liked the stick magazine design on the ShinSung Careers

 

[Pale_Rider]

Yup, then you would have the space under the breech to have a stick magazine, but......there's so many trade offs with that design that I would rather forget about the stick mag

Yea I could care less about stick mags for PCPs but it’s interesting to see the ingenuity it took to develop one for a pcp. The career mag on the other hand is simple and reliable. Only drawback is you can’t keep them preloaded. Need to 3d print a cap to hold them in place. To bad t manufacturers aren’t making lever action pcps. The careers have proven reliable and one helluva fun rifle to shoot. Especially after Will’s treatment. Haven’t had one issue with my careers.

 

[steve123]

Why do you think it wouldn’t work for slugs without grooves?

I meant slugs "with grooves" possibly not feeding well if stacked one on top another like if in 1911 pistol magazines. In the photo you showed there's plastic separating each slug in its own compartment.

Using the 1911 anology I'm thinking the grooved part in those slugs like in that photo would potentially cause the topmost slug in the stick mag to snag the groove on the slug below it as the topmost slug is being fed forward.

Whereas with slugs lacking grooves that wouldn't be a concern, nothing to snag.

In a semiauto pistol those grooves are in the cartridge case.

Hopefully I'm making sense.

 

[steve123]

Granted I know very little about pcp mechanisms but can't the air go through the probe directly behind a slug?
Or how about the air going through the top part of the action then vented through a tranfer port?

This is where the smart guys have to take over and why I don't design air rifles

 

[steve123]

That's what I was meaning, the mag lips. As long as the spring pressure under the slugs doesn't force them up and out all at once, it should work. Might be easier to accomplish with waisted pellets but then the mags would have to be designed for specific pellets. And 18 grain wouldn't fit a 14 grain mag etc.

Sorry I'm not following you??

Just like the feed lips in a standard stick magazine don't allow the ammo in it to pop out the top under the spring pressure. The slugs would be held in the same way - by the feed lips.

 

[Pale_Rider]

I meant slugs "with grooves" possibly not feeding well if stacked one on top another like if in 1911 pistol magazines. In the photo you showed there's plastic separating each slug in its own compartment.

Using the 1911 anology I'm thinking the grooved part in those slugs like in that photo would potentially cause the topmost slug in the stick mag to snag the groove on the slug below it as the topmost slug is being fed forward.

Whereas with slugs lacking grooves that wouldn't be a concern, nothing to snag.

In a semiauto pistol those grooves are in the cartridge case.

Hopefully I'm making sense.

You make sense. In the design I posted above it would work with any type of slug and can even be double stacked because there is a plastic shell surrounding each slug, protecting them and allowing for smooth feeding

 

[Pale_Rider]

Granted I know very little about pcp mechanisms but can't the air go through the probe directly behind a slug?
Or how about the air going through the top part of the action then vented through a tranfer port?

This is where the smart guys have to take over and why I don't design air rifles

Still waiting on the smart guys to chime in. Regardless of whether I’m right about my understanding of pcp design it’s entertaining to day dream about the different airgun mechanisms.

Yes air can flow through the probe like the Airforce rifles

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Granted I know very little about pcp mechanisms but can't the air go through the probe directly behind a slug?
Or how about the air going through the top part of the action then vented through a tranfer port?

This is where the smart guys have to take over and why I don't design air rifles

Yes the air can go through the probe However if your tank/bottle is under the barrel a stick magazine would be in the way, as mentioned before tank in the back would make it possible but tanks in the back bring up a score of different problems.

one other solution would be having a gun set up like the mustang lobo where the air tube is on top of the barrel so the transfer port comes down into the action, that will aloud a stick magazine to be designed, but now again problems arise like your scope will be very high in relation to the barrel.


Because we need air reservoirs to operate airguns you need to trade off several aspects of designs.

 

[Ssgmac]

So at the end of the day its Still an FX revolution using a strict semi auto definition, there were others before but......

I'm pretty sure the FX Monsoon came out before the Revolution. There have been Co2 semi-autos out for a long time, but I think FX is the first PCP. When I got my Revolution, I searched and searched for other PCP semi-autos. At that time, there were only two companies making them. FX and I can't remember the other company. It was either Daystate or Brocock. Whichever it was, it required a battery to make it function properly. I thought that was kinda lame. ..so I went with the Revolution. My only regret is that I didn't buy more than one extra magazine...

 

[DonR]

True semi-auto air rifles were made in the 30's and 40's (maybe continuing later). MacGlashan had one, ABT had a couple versions of their Air-O-Matic. These were hose-fed carnival or arcade guns, thus not portable for field use, but mechanically they definitely qualify.

Don R.

 

[Sawney Bean]

I remember MrBulk on the old Yellow Forum was modifying Crosman 600's into bulk fed carbines and rifles decades ago. He used them to hunt rats on Hawaiian sugar cane plantations and used to post pictures of wheel barrel loads of dead rats after his hunts.

 

[ba49]

If you are going by the definition of how a PB semi auto works then the airgun would have to obtain it's energy solely from a cartridge or the projectile(like some of the caseless ammo used in the jet pistols not a separate power source like an air tank. I don't think you can compare the two apple to apple which I think is a good thing. The only way this could be done to fit the definitions I'm seeing would be with pressurized pellets in a cartridge which I think some are experimenting with.

 

[dv8eod]

For giggles and grins, I'm going to throw the SMG-22 out there as a true semi automatic rifle. It can run on either CO² or HPA. If the trigger is turned back or you have really good finger control, it will fire one shot after another with each pull of the trigger. The gas advances the belt for each subsequent shot. Turn the trigger up and it does it at the rate of 12rds/sec.
Interestingly noted, the trigger operates a button on the side of the valve to make it fire. I believe it is the same valve they use in their paintball guns, just with a little more oomph.

 

[steve123]

For giggles and grins, I'm going to throw the SMG-22 out there as a true semi automatic rifle. It can run on either CO² or HPA. If the trigger is turned back or you have really good finger control, it will fire one shot after another with each pull of the trigger. The gas advances the belt for each subsequent shot. Turn the trigger up and it does it at the rate of 12rds/sec.
Interestingly noted, the trigger operates a button on the side of the valve to make it fire. I believe it is the same valve they use in their paintball guns, just with a little more oomph.

A couple times in the past I was almost ready to hit the submit button in the Cart for a SMG-22 but just couldn't talk myself into it.

I didn't go back and read what I wrote here but I ended up buying a Steyr ProX 22 cal to satisfy my semi auto void. Nice gun and all but there are still things about it I've not warmed up to.

 

[steve123]

Still waiting on the smart guys to chime in. Regardless of whether I’m right about my understanding of pcp design it’s entertaining to day dream about the different airgun mechanisms.

Yes air can flow through the probe like the Airforce rifles

Once the inspired individual who is "that smart guy" starts seeing the light of the upsides in possibilities of a stick fed slug repeater, and the dreams of those Benjy's flying into their bank account has entered their sights, then someday we might get to enjoy such cool guns.

Another fun thing I thought of is having "tube" fed slug sending, semi's, slide action pumps, and lever actions, not unlike many firearms are like. My 1950's Browning take down 22rf comes to mind, I love that old gun!

You never know but years ago I mentioned in a post how awesome a true biathlon type Fortner 18/1727F action would be in a airgun and since then a Co has created one and a different CO should have theirs for sale in 2024.
Did these smarty's see my posts and have the lights start blinking in their minds eye, maybe so. Ed???

 

[dv8eod]

A couple times in the past I was almost ready to hit the submit button in the Cart for a SMG-22 but just couldn't talk myself into it.

I didn't go back and read what I wrote here but I ended up buying a Steyr ProX 22 cal to satisfy my semi auto void. Nice gun and all but there are still things about it I've not warmed up to.

I saw them shooting one on American Airgunner and jokingly told my wife that was what we needed for pest control. My daughter talked her into ordering it and I got it for Christmas. We wore that thing out. Reloading took forever compared to the amount of time spent shooting. Unfortunately, it started acting up, and after sending it back to be repaired, it finally gave up the ghost. It's now sitting in it's case waiting to be worked on if and when I can find the time. Last I heard, they aren't in production anymore.
I scratched my semiauto itch with an L2 which has been flawless for the last 2 years. It is now the only air rifle that I shoot along with the AP16 on the pistol side.

 

[silvershooter589]

If you are going by the definition of how a PB semi auto works then the airgun would have to obtain it's energy solely from a cartridge or the projectile(like some of the caseless ammo used in the jet pistols not a separate power source like an air tank. I don't think you can compare the two apple to apple which I think is a good thing. The only way this could be done to fit the definitions I'm seeing would be with pressurized pellets in a cartridge which I think some are experimenting with.

Agree the PB definition is basically irrelevant to airguns. Airgun innovation provides multiple ways to achieve the same goal... "semi auto" meaning simply that you don't have to cock the gun between activating the trigger.

Who really cares how it's done, as long as the system is reliable and it's got a good trigger? I've never shot these "revolver" style double-action Evanix, but if it's got a light trigger and doesn't feel like a heavy trigger PB revolver, I'd call that "airgun semi-auto" as well.